I don’t like smartphones. I use a dumbphone.
But this is a wonderful initiative.
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Still like the idea behind it and wish there was support for GrapheneOS (going even further than /e/o) as well as better camera quality but this is the price we have to pay for flexibility and sustainability I think. Like the concept here but never tried to go with one so far.
I wish they could implement the parts of the Pixel phones that allow GrapheneOS to be used.
What parts are these? I’ve always wondered what this was about, why the pixel was the only phone that could support GrapheneOS
The last I looked was that the Pixel was the only phone that allowed you to load a custom rom and relock the bootloader. Other phones kept the bootloader unlocked once it was modded.
So, graphene could be put on those phones if the devs wanted to do it, but it would be less secure since the bootloader would remain unlocked.
Also, supporting a small line a phones is probably infinitely easier than a range, of devices, but it would be nice to have another option. Especially now that the Fairphone pice is reasonable.
The last I looked was that the Pixel was the only phone that allowed you to load a custom rom and relock the bootloader. Other phones kept the bootloader unlocked once it was modded.
That is not the case. SHIFTmq, Motorola and Fairphone allow the bootloader to be relocked with a custom rom. There are many requirements the Fairphone lacks for GrapheneOS, but relocking the bootloader is not one of them.
Thanks! I guess what I read before was either old or just wrong.
The Fairphone can be locked after flashing a custom rom. /e/-OS is officially supported. You can even buy it from them with /e/ preinstalled. iode-OS also works. I don’t know about Graphene OS, but tbh, I don’t see the benefit of Graphene OS for the average user. /e/ has built in privacy features, is google-free and runs MicroG as alternative to Google Play Services. Most apps run fine. You can even use your apps that you purchased from the PlayStore.
I’ve been using Fairphone 5 with /e/-OS for over a year and love it.
/e/ has built in privacy features
/e/ uses a for profit 3rd party for unencrypted backups. That alone should be a big red flag.
is google-free and runs MicroG
So it runs google. MicroG just limits what data is sent to google.
You can even use your apps that you purchased from the PlayStore.
You can do the same with aurora store. That’s available on just about every phone.
You can do the same with aurora store. That’s available on just about every phone.
not if the app attempts to verify its license through the play store. you need microg for that, or patch it
Well even graphene os still runs a version of Android. So there is still some goggle code in that. But ripping oit google play, amd various goggle services means goggle doesn’t track you with those. Yeah if you still ise gmail and log into toutube every day they will.
there is still some goggle code in that.
But that code is open source, and it has been verified that it dosent track you.
It a perfectly usable Android for the average user. Everything works out of the boy. If it is not for you, fine. Buy a Pixel.
for the average user.
So we are talking about an average user, who
- fully understands the appeal of a degoogled Phone
- Willingly spends extra money for a fairphone
- is able to migrate away from google services to /e/'s services
- Is willing and able to troubleshoot any problems that MicroG has
- is willing to fix not working banking apps
- but somehow can’t use a simple web installer from Calyx
Tell me, is this average user in the room with us right now?
Everything works out of the boy.
So does (and does not) with Calix or Graphene
Buy a Pixel.
I think you don’t get what I’m talking about.
-It takes a base level of understanding why you would buy a Fairphone (or any degoogled phone)
- it takes a base level of understanding phones to be able to use a degoogled one
- If you already have that knowledge, you might as well just take an extra 5 minutes and use the web installer for calyx since it is literally the same AND has less vendor lockin than /e/
Edit: You want an average user friendly ROM? Just use Lineage for gods sake.
Exactly. Even if I wanted /e/, I would re-flash when I got it, because the reason I want /e/ is because I don’t trust the OEM.
It’s the same way with desktops, I see zero value in buying a laptop w/ Linux pre-installed because I’m just going to reinstall when I get it anyway.
In 4 years I have never (and will never) used any service from /e/. There is no vendor lock whatsoever. That’s fully optional.
Points 3, 4 and 5 in your list are moot IMHO.
Also
It takes a base level of understanding why you would buy a Fairphone
It doesn’t really. “Phone is repairable and X can help me”, “they pay the makers fair wages” are not really complex value propositions that require some (technical) understanding.
The point of /e/ and similar distributions is that you can buy a phone with it (average user will never reflash) and just have a phone that doesn’t use Google (it does, for the amount that doesn’t require you to do extra technical stuff and have a sane user experience at the same time).
That said, calyx seems a great alternative and so are iode. I think the advantages of one over the other (for my brief search) are quite small.
I support all people around me when it comes to tech. I help them with their laptops and phones. If I get the chance to install Linux or de-googled Android, I do it, knowing that everything will work as they expect.
There is no baseknowlege required. People will buy what is readily available to them. A brand new Fairphone with e-OS preinstalled is readily available to them. And if the user experience is basically the same, they don’t even need care that their phone is more private.
/e/-OS is based on Lineage, with some stuff pre-installed to make it easier for users. I don’t get your problem. It is basically a distro. You are saying “why use Ubuntu when they can use Arch”. Doesn’t make sense at all.
lemmy is toxic as fuck. Same shit like every other site.
e-OS is said to have the worst security of pretty much all Android distributions. Dunno if this is a fact, but apparently the upgrade schedules are not great.
They are usually a month behind
https://www.kuketz-blog.de/weshalb-grapheneos-aktuell-nur-google-pixel-geraete-unterstuetzt/
(From an Interview - The relevant parts are in English)
Security seems not easy.
I mean, you could use CalyxOS
It dosent have such things as 2 factor pin auth for fingerprint, but its the closest to Graphene
Not quite the same. The big thing with GrapheneOS is it can run the actual Google services, but sandboxed. Organic Maps is better than Google Maps in everyway, but it’s routes are so much worse because it has no traffic into to go on. It’s an anticompetitive network effect, but it’s hard to fight without law makers.
Edit: Ok, it is good, but the main thing I like about is the maps can be setup to be as good as ones you’d manually navigate by. A bit like UK’s Ordnance Survey maps.
Organic Maps is better than Google Maps in everyway
It’s really not, here are a few more:
- no reviews for businesses - that’s a huge reason people use Maps
- you have to manually download maps you want to see, and repeat w/ every update
- lots of missing info, especially where I live, and especially businesses
- no satellite images or street view - OSM has it though
That said, I use Organic Maps almost exclusively, and I put in the time to add missing info where I can. I’ve probably added hundreds of places for my area. Basically, when I go somewhere new, if it’s not in OSM, I take a few pictures and add the place when I get home, and I’ll put in the effort to enter hours, phone number, etc from their website. It’s a pain, but hopefully someone down the line appreciates that.
All of that info exists in GM though, so the only reason for me to use OM is stubbornness. OM is fantastic, but it’s hardly “better than Google Maps in every way,” in fact it’s probably worse in most ways. However, I prefer it and will keep using it because I refuse to use Google services.
Ok, I accept all that, but the maps just are better to me. I grew up with the UK Ordnance Survey maps, and that’s kind of what I want from my maps.
I’ll amend.
I hope Graphene eventually shifts to support the fairphones. Doubtful, but it’d be perfect
No, it’s the other way around. Fairphone needs to implement the things Graphene requires.
Por que no los dos?
GrapheneOS can’t add hardware features to an existing phone. That’s why no los dos.
Sure, but once that’s in place, Graphene has to make efforts on their part. It’s not instantly compatible unless the hardware is exactly identical to a supported device. That’s the point I was making. I forget sometimes when being flippant that I have to explain every detail so that overly pedantic people can follow…my bad…
Sure. My point is that GrapheneOS can’t do much until Fairphone does their part.
If we could get a Fairphone with GrapheneOS, that would be the perfect phone for me. Repairability & the most secure and private Android. Sign me up!
Hows their secure boot?
I’ve owned the 4, for a couple of years. Was really excited to get one.
Parts have been unavailable for a long time when I needed them. The battery is pretty dead after 2 years meanwhile my pixel which is about 5 years old still going strong. The os is the buggiest experience I’ve ever had, sluggish, going from portrait the landscape kills UI formatting if it switches to power save it’ll skip a video. Boot loops constantly.
Never again I’m afraid it’s neat I could fix things with it so quickly but they fail hard past that.
Example navigation buttons have just covered the voyager ui
Bring back the headphone jack & we’ll be happy.
Next up, make the phone compatible with Linux OSs
We can but hope. I have a dongle that plugs into my charging point to make it a headphone jack, but it’s not the same
I recently went through that dongle buying experience. Having to get the correct DAC and amplifier chipset so the sound won’t be too low is annoying. For the record I ended up going with one that has the CX31993 DAC and the MAX97220 amplifier, it doesn’t have a real name so I’ll just give a link: https://aliexpress.com/item/1005008755907868.html. It is a bit louder than my first impulsive buy, but I haven’t tested the microphone yet.
Thanks for the link!
No thanks, i’ve broken every single one. A dap with bluetooth receiver works better.
What do you do to break them?
In my forties and never broken a headphone jack, headphones, cable, or in fact anything like that. I tend to take care of my stuff and not treat it in such a way as I’m going to break it.
Put it in my jeans pocket and move about my day as usual. Cycling broke them in a year, reliably.
But the presence of a headphone jack doesn’t prevent you from using Bluetooth?
It doesn’t and for many people the jack dying isn’t an issue.
I’m using this phone right now and I love it. it feels solid. Im using a degoogled ROM and it just works, there seems to be a lot of people pressing for graphene os specifically and discrediting the phone for what it is. its so easy to take apart and cheaply repair its great. it’s perfect for folk who want a decent smartphone that you dont have to worry about being thrown around. sure it’s not perfect but it is still a very good
I have been shopping for a rom for my FP. Which are you running?
calyx os is what I use
I use CalyxOS on mine. It has microG all working by default so if you need that sort of thing it’s probably the easiest way to get it up and running
What’s the cost to replace a cracked screen?
You can buy the OLED display as a spare part for 100 EUR on the official website. https://shop.fairphone.com/shop/category/spare-parts-4?category=4&filters=31
Yeah, that plus labor is 80% of what I typically pay for a whole brand new phone… I know why it is this way, but it really is this way and that makes it very hard for low volume players to enter the market.
The heck are you talking about? If you change it yourself it’s still 100€. And you won’t find any decent smartphone at this price.
I typically pay US$250 for unlocked smartphones, and they are fine for me, my wife, my kids, friends and family…
If the screen is 100€ and the labor to install it competently (I suppose this is a DIY serviceable phone, but the screen?) is another 75€, that’s 80% of what I would be paying for a brand new phone.
Smartphones of this price would be low quality, impossible to self epair, and very likely made with very poor social and environmental conditions. It’s the opposite of what Fairphone does, so the comparison is not possible.
Only 400€ to go until I can afford it.
This would’ve been my new phone if it had a headphone jack.
From an environmental standpoint it doesn’t make any sense to drop it. More batteries, more e waste
They sell earbuds, that’s all you need to know why it doesn’t have a jack anymore.
Really sad they dropped it
Yup I’ll stick with Xperia
I was trying so hard to buy one but Sony did not make them available at all in my country. The only way to buy an Xperia or a Zenfone 10 is through shady importer websites and you get no warranty.
Great idea, but will never take down here in south America
People know that all these import parts and replacements are not exactly easy to pay for, even less to find. They need a cheap reliable phone that will at least handle day to day for years
I mean come on, the average cellphone user here is still using the equivalent of a Moto G2 or Samsung J2 and thats stretching it.
An S8 is still seen like luxury in here. And I’m not even going into iphones.
I really want this to come to the US as well…
Is this phone also more secure?
The problem we are running into right now is Apple and Google are colluding with the US government over fascism and they are supporting their Nazi regime
They have all the power and they can change all of these services overnight, they can track you and everything and you will have no idea and no way to get rid of it
We really need an open replacement. Phones are now used for everything
Is this phone also more secure?
Probably not.
Apple & Google have spent considerable amounts of time building out hardware security infrastructure for their products that I find it extremely unlikely Fairphone would have been able to match.
For example, the popular alternative Android OS GrapheneOS only supports Google Pixels, because: (Emphasis added by me)
“There are currently no other devices meeting even the most basic security requirements while running an alternate OS. GrapheneOS is very interested in supporting a non-Pixel brand, but the vast majority of Android OEMs do not take security seriously. Samsung takes security almost as seriously as Google, but they deliberately cripple their devices when unlock them to install another OS and don’t allow an alternate OS to use important security features. If Samsung permitted GrapheneOS to support their devices properly, many of their phones would be the closest to meeting our requirements. They’re currently missing the very important hardware memory tagging feature, but only because it’s such a new feature”
If even Samsung, the only other phone brand on the market they consider close to meeting their standards, doesn’t support every modern hardware security feature, and deliberately cripples their security for alternate OS’s, as a multi billion dollar company, I doubt Fairphone has custom-built hardware security mechanisms for their phones to the degree that Google has.
Well yeah, because why would phone companies care? Consumers buy devices based on camera and display quality, not for security, privacy, etc. I just had a chat w/ a coworker about a Chinese device with an incredible camera and big battery, and I highly doubt it does anything but the bare minimum for security. It’s a cool piece of hardware, but a no-go for anyone that cares even a little about security updates.
I have a Pixel device because it has a long SW support cycle (Google promises at least 7 years), and I use GrapheneOS because it removes Google’s spyware crap. I’m not married to GrapheneOS or Pixel devices, I just need something where the software support will last at least longer than my desire to keep the device (about 4-5 years for me). I’ve ditched each of my last phones largely because they ran out of security update support, and that sucks.
I’d prefer a Linux phone w/ decent security features, but they don’t meet my minimum standards for things working (just need phone features to work properly, don’t need apps). The moment a Linux phone comes out than actually works properly and has reasonable security, I’ll switch. The FairPhone could be that, but it’s not, so I don’t have one.
how is pixel with graphene os ? does it completely remove all google spyware shit? or do they have some sort of hardware backdoor?
the reason I ask is because i have a motorola right now and it pisses me off immensely … there is this notification they keep pushing, “Activate Live Lock screen” which i don’t even know what it is, some background pictures crap. I uninstalled this app, but the notification remains. Like it’s not there always but keeps coming back every few days. this has been going on for months and i got so pissed i decided to contact support and complain there. they said, something along the lines of, we can connect remotely and do it for you. ( like disable, but they can’t disable because i went through every option on the phone, it cannot be disabled, it’s just bloatware) but their “we can do it for you remotely” got me thinking, backdoors, backdoors everywhere.
now i want a new phone lol and one that can support a custom firmware but installing custom firmwares on pretty much all phones is a nightmare.
but i also hate buying anything google, hence my question.
Agree. Calyx is also an option when GOS support ends , then lineage etc. Wish we had good working Linux phones but I have high hopes my pixel 7 will be my last android
I used a Fairphone 4 with /e/ and it was good. Not great, but useable. I expect the hardware bugs I ran into (using the camera only worked like 20 times before the phone needed a restart, Bluetooth randomly not working) to be ironed out by now. Currently on an old Samsung and it is more solid, but I also liked the environmentalism with the fairphone. Anyone with a Fairphone 5 and something like a glucose sensor thats in constant use?
Fairphone 6 approaching? They are great, the project is amazing and I wish every brand would be like them in terms of caring about users and environment
I’ve had this phone for over a year with Murena e/OS/! 90hz refresh rate is so nice
The hardware is good and I like the idea in principle but Fairphone’s support and software QA is dreadful and you need to hope you never need the former because of problems with the latter. My FP5 was bricked by an update they pushed out and after six weeks of trying to get a solution from their support (four weeks of which they didn’t respond at all) I ended up claiming on insurance and buying a Pixel. According to the forums this problem is far from unique to me.
Aaaand it’s impossible to buy in the US. Even if USians want to do the right thing, we’re not permitted.
Import? Buy one on ebay?
Of course, not being a billionaire is illegal here.
Really wish Fairphone would come to the US. I’d spend the money on it, but they only half-ass sold the last gen phone here on the US.
I don’t even understand why. They support most 4G and every mid and low band 5G in America. Even if I could just import it, I’d be happy.
AT&T has a whitelist system, they check IMEIs often and if your device is not approved, cell service stops working.
For Verizon, you have to call customer service to do a manual override.
Only T-Mobile allows any phone to work without explicit approval.
Probably some reason like they don’t want people complaining the service is bad because they use a “no-name brand” phone, so they just cut you off and blame your phpne because it’s easier for corporate. (Yay, capitalism! 🫠 /s)
I heard that Australia now has a Nationwide whitelist system that even block unapproved phones from calling the emergency number.
Technology is really getting enshittified. 😓
Unfortunately Telecomms in Australia seem to have a pissing contest on who can screw consumers more, America or Aussie companies.
I can send you one probably, but you know… tariffs (and processing fees).
I appreciate it, but I just got a new phone because I needed a new one recently. I wish it could have been something like a Fairphone, but thems the breaks.
Yup. I was interested in one as well, but they don’t really support US customers, so I ended up w/ a Pixel w/ GrapheneOS flashed.
