Real Marxists know Marx didn’t morally condemn the rich. He wanted the workers to take hold of the productive forces created under capitalism and organize it under a rational basis.
Yup. The great issue with capitalism, is that it wasn’t formally designed to enrich society as a whole. It merely is an upgraded iteration of feudalism. You can give a pig a top hat and monocle, but it is still a pig.
We will need a new Constitution, one built to acknowledge that Economics is power. The framers addressed politics and violence, but overlooked the fundamental impact that money has on society. Floors and ceilings on wealth should be implemented, so that the likes of Musk or Trump cannot exist.
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The American revolution was historically progressive. It led to the French and Haitian revolutions as well. I don’t think we have to single out specific figures, although Thomas Paine was on the radical edge. Jefferson was also a radical who supported the French revolution and yet he owned slaves. By now, capitalism has outlived it’s historical usefulness.
that’s why it’s ML, Marxist Leninism, and not just Marxism
What are you trying to say? I think Lenin had useful insights and strategies, but Marxism is a bit broader.
I’m not saying anything lmao they call themselves ML and not just Marxists for this reason
You mean Stalinists call themselves ML? For what reason?
Stalinists are ML
Rationalism sprinkled with authoritarianism, brutality and famine?
whatever you say
Lenin was a murderous brutal dictator.
Jesus was a socialist
This is a reminder there is no such thing as a “Christian” just people who pretend to be so they have an excuse to act unchristian like towards anyone they envy.
I was raised conservative Christian and I lost my faith in university. You’re 100% right but I sometimes feel a strong urge to “convert” back but only practice the cool parts. Like I’d one-up christians and quote Jesus’ most socialist verses at them. Maybe start a Facebook page about how the NT has been corrupted in this modern day, conspiracy-theorist style, but the hidden message is just Marxism.
I feel like somebody out there has embodied that, and I’d like to give them space to reclaim the word Christian for themself at least.
My father in law is a member of the communist party and was a theology professor at a prestigious university, he’s also a catholic and went to seminary (didn’t become a priest though). Point is that there are absolutely leftist Christians out there. You can lead by example.
But also keep in mind that there have been people out there spreading these words, the problem is that when they get too influential, they get disappeared or murdered
That is how most new branches of religion start. Instead maybe Christianity in its core is not what modern people think it is. The Bible itself is a collection and not a single written source. Think of it as a foss project that got forked early on, then a few people took parts of these forks and sample it into the versions we know today, which then also got forked with every translation.
So if you decide to do what said you should consider checking other religions such as Islam and see what you like there as well.
I agree completely. I’m honestly a little annoyed by some of the antitheists in this thread. They should know that historically societies become less religious after quality of life and progressive outlooks develop, not before. So the way you “defeat religion”, if that’s even possible, is by raising living standards and fighting for equality. There are Christians who do more to end Christianity than most atheists.
Also using FOSS as an analogy for religion is hilarious to me for some reason. It works though.
Oh I hate all religions you don’t wanna get me derailed
They’re all horrible.
I won’t split hairs and decide if one is worse than another.
They’re all anti human, and intolerant of logic.
“But what about my religion?”
Yeah yours too.
Science or magic.
One gives us vaccines cell phones and space ships
The other gives us anti vaccines, and a place for rapists to hide
Please do this.
I like imagining Jesus as a transgender man. Like, why would god have a Y chromosome?
I do get a little spiritual enjoyment out of it - the idea of a Christ like me, that I can aspire to be like - when I’m really stoned I can almost believe it.
Christ, the supernatural human born from a all knowning deity does not exist.
Christ as philosophical medium to carry a message of love, mutual aid and societal progress is very real.
I denounced Jaweh the demiurge in second grade, but his supposed “son” continues to be a rolemodel to me to this very day.
Christianity is pretty much not about Christ at all, it’s about leveraging him to confer authority over the words of certain people.
You just need to ask yourself why you feel the need to add all the extra baggage of a “god” when you can do and believe all of those things without it?
Rhetorical purposes. Religious people are more likely to listen to their god than listen to an atheist.
Who’s asking anyone to listen to an atheist? All of the things you describe are completely separate from religion. This need to add some supernatural force, with zero evidence, adds absolutely nothing of value.
Im talking about people I know personally. People who know I’m an atheist and are more likely to consider my point of view if I added scriptures. That’s all
Jesus was a socialist
no such thing as a “Christian”
Huh?
Another socialist Christian a little more recent than Jesus: you might remember Dr. King. Christianity deserves much more criticism and this is an absolutely correct criticism towards most people who profess to be Christians.
But speaking so absolutely usually means you’re wrong. There are plenty of Christians who actually follow Christ and are working to make the world better.
There are plenty of Christians who actually follow Christ and are working to make the world better.
Well… Maybe not plenty. Some. There really could be more.
He broke the ten commandments tho
P sure that was god through Moses, not christ
I see what you did there
If you believe in Christian magic, do I have an offer for you: a bridge for a low low cost of however much you have left after tithing
As a non religious person I take issue with comments like these, it’s as though you believe that for someone to have a faith that they must be stupid, and if that’s the case then I have a bridge to sell to you for the low low price which matches the number of brain cells you have.
My manager is religious and quite possibly one of the smartest people I’ve even met, he’s also the owner of our software consultancy and the lead engineer that has contributed massively to open source projects.
I’m not going to pretend to understand why he is religious or whether I agree but all I can say is never met someone as smart as him and he is really nice. We recently got pay rises and a reduction in hours. He spends loads of free time helping his parishioners and doing community work and just generally a nice man.
I am offended on behalf of him for your reductive view.
Yeah humans have the ability to be simultaneously dumb as rocks and smart at the same time.
Exhibit A: PhD students
In this case we are hoping enough of the stupid (brainwashed) part of the brain is exposed and willing to invest in a bridge. It’s not complex.
I am offended on behalf of him for your reductive view.
Well that’s a compelling reason to change my mind? You’re offended on behalf of someone else that you admit that you can’t understand why they’re religious ?
You’re upset with me for being reductionist on behalf of someone else’s reductionist superstition?
Wow.
Why not. Ask him? “Why do you believe in magic? Do you really believe in magic?”
Second hand offense. Wow. Hot damn. I’ve never achieved that before.
No he doesn’t believe in magic. He just believes that there has to be a creator of sorts and that doesn’t necessarily need to be a person, it could be anything that we can’t comprehend.
I don’t believe the same but it would be mighty arrogant of me to claim my believe in we ended here out of randomness is any more convincing.
So… magic.
It is pretty magical that we are here.
I don’t believe the same but it would be mighty arrogant of me to claim my believe in we ended here out of randomness is any more convincing.
You know you can just say “I don’t know.” It’s not one or the other. How about don’t believe either until we have compelling evidence explaining the origin of life?
That said, science already has far more compelling evidence on its side than religion regarding this topic. Which, as a reminder, has all of 0 evidence supporting it.
You know you can just say “I don’t know.”
If you take that to its logical conclusion you end up at “I cannot doubt that I doubt, therefore, I am” (which is what Descartes was actually up to) and need a leap of faith to re-introduce even the existence of the material world because solipsism has just as much tangible evidence when considered from that refuge of pure egg-headed rationalism.
That’s not so say that such a position is untenable, or unworkable, you could e.g. say “I will take any position that is compatible with both materialism and solipsism”, hedging around the question. Point I’m making is that you’re a reddit atheist who hasn’t thought as deep about any of this than you think you did. You’re not interested in the question, you’re interested in distancing yourself from a position you associate with people who have hurt you in the past. Valid, of course, but how about focussing on the “hurting people” part instead of “can find meaning in the concept of a god” because the two are, indeed, orthogonal.
I really don’t care what has evidence and what doesn’t. If someone is nice and not harming people I do not care if they believe the sky is green.
This is a reminder there is no such thing as a “Christian” just people who pretend to be so they have an excuse to act unchristian like towards anyone they envy.
I swear they need to change the name of the “No True Scotsman” fallacy to “No True Christian”
I don’t know about “true Christian”
But no sane grown up believes in the magical Christian story. My opinion is that there is no such thing as a “Christian”
No matter how much they claim to believe.
They only say it to have “righteousness” and the moral high ground when they want to abuse or kill or oppress or steal from someone who is not a “true Christian” like they claim to be.
But no sane grown up
that word is doing a LOT of heavy, heavy lifting lol
Not all Christians follow American Christianity. But too many do.
That’s not Jesus, that’s Willem Dafriend.
You know, I’m something of a saint myself
WWJD?
Get apprehended and sent to a gulag in El Salvador.
It’s funny you mention that because as I was reading the story of Garcia yesterday I couldn’t help but see parallels to the whole back-and-forth that happens to Jesus after His arrest. An innocent man yanked around by an unjust system.
Remember that the louder the Christian the less Christian they actually are.
Broken clock moment.
Leviticus 24:16
Whoever blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him.Plenty of other nice punishments for whatever. burning at the stake, hanging, and crucifixion.
Or maybe some non-lethal whipping or wife beating.
No thanksYou assume I’m extolling the virtues of Christianity when I’m just pointing out that their own religious text agrees with the comment I’m replying to.
I get the feeling you’re beating a dead horse.
Your reply might very well be that, since there is nothing in your verse contradicting his faulty statement that there are good ‘true’ christians.
Jesus Christ, there’s nothing stating there are good true Christians either. Are you this combative with everyone, or is religion just a tender spot for you?
Projection much?
I simply made a statement.
No noeed to jebus me or give me your amateur psycho-analysis.
Why do you get so triggered by it?
Religion is nothing to me, hapily atheist youth in western Europe without annoying bible thumpers.
It’s nothing more to me than a subject of ridicule.
But I’ll leave it at that since it clearly hits a nerve. Bye nowI simply made a statement.
…yeah, and I just provided a quote. Didn’t stop you from projecting your assumptions onto me below.
Your reply might very well be that, since there is nothing in your verse contradicting his faulty statement that there are good ‘true’ christians.
What is this “YOU DIDN’T DISAVOW, YOU MIGHT AS WELL SUPPORT IT” juvenile reasoning.
you can just say “my bad, I didn’t know where you were coming from and thought you were a bible thumper”
But I’ll leave it at that since it clearly hits a nerve.
Ah, the classic “I’m rubber, you’re glue” line.
Well, have a good day as well.
Do you imagine that the same people wrote the stuff in Leviticus and Matthew? They were composed like 400-600 years apart
Why would I care about that?
Not a fan of the fantasy genreOooo so edgy lmao, maybe because you’re pretending to care about facts
yawn.
Stopped discussing bible thumpers and flat earthers when I was 12. So bye
Yet here you are
used to believe that. and that there was an elusive demographic of “Schroedenger’s Christians” who were true believers and didn’t want to hurt anyone. but at its core, that’s just not the point. the tolerant christians are the outliers and as of ten years ago they may as well not exist
ACAB
Can’t be a true believer in eternal damnation and suffering and “not want to hurt anyone”
Our flawed brains simply can’t truly comprehend eternity and the creator of said brains also wants to use eternity as punishment. Supporting a system that is so cruel and final is in itself an act of cruelty.
“Eternal damnation and suffering” is fan fiction (Dante’s inferno) that somehow caught on. (The “somehow” being part and parcel with the other very good criticisms of the Church.)
There is no concept of eternal damnation in the bible.
There’s a lot of things in and not in the bible, all that matters is what Christians widely believe. For a long time Christians were opposed to using forks and finance but now I bet 99.9% are perfectly fine with it.
This is why belief is poison for rational thought. I can’t explain that damnation is not in the Bible but how to perform abortion is, for there to be Christian support for abortion. No points can be made against a faith specifically evolved to feed on the desire to be the misunderstood underdog with righteous purpose.
Any Christian now who remains silent in the face of their peers white nationalist hatred partakes in that hatred.
exactly. it’s a “if there are good cops then where the fuck are they when the bad ones kill somebody” situation.
I’m not Christian but I doubt this, most people like to keep to themselves despite their religion.
I grew up deep in their community. No they dont. They hate everyone who isn’t them and are pretty stoked they don’t have to passively tell people “I’ll pray for you” anymore. Getting back to white hoods as fast as possible was always the goal.
The first commandment being “I am thy God and though shalt have no other gods before me” (which implies the existence of other gods quite directly) before “thou shalt not kill” is pretty indicative or the actual attitude of the religion.
“The intolerance of narrow monotheism is written in letters of blood across the history of man from the time when first the tribes of Israel burst into the land of Canaan. The worshippers of the one jealous God are egged on to aggressive wars against people of alien [beliefs and cultures]. They invoke divine sanction for the cruelties inflicted on the conquered. The spirit of old Israel is inherited by Christianity and Islam, and it might not be unreasonable to suggest that it would have been better for Western civilization if Greece had moulded it on this question rather than Palestine.”
— Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan
10 years is super generous.
Agreed, but I do feel like some sort of radical when I say to just read and follow Jesus’s teachings.
Well you’d be against any human ideology if you follow his teachings, so yeah. That’s pretty radical
Jesus is looking friendly, but also like he could totally go crazy and flip a money lenders table. It’s hard to tell if he is dafriend or dafoe.
This is one of those shadow boxing christians threads. Yeah, maybe you all look cool in the mirror but they’re going to wake up tomorrow with no idea you insulted their entire belief structure.
Don’t get me wrong. I loved it when my dad asked, “when did you stop being christian” because I vehemently am against his every belief. I loved turning the tables on him and asking the same with regards to everything trump has said and done. End of the day though he’ll just go back to his hidey hole, and myself too.
If you have religious friend you should try it. Call them on trumps shit and the when they invoke god, which they always do, ask, “who’s god” because Jesus doesn’t want this shit.
Jesus is the og communist
I’m going to say this as a priest ordained in Christ’s One, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church (Episcopal branch): that choice of Jesus image is chef’s kiss
You got me in the first half, but you forgot "evangelical” 😇.
One of my professor, Gérard Siegwalt, a liberal Lutheran, wrote a “Dogmatics for the evangelical catholicity” and I always loved the title.
Signed: an ordained pastor of the Lutheran-Reformed branch.
Capitalism makes us worship capital so we cannot worship God and then blames it on LGBT.
You forgot the Orange Cult, but yeah. They blame it on DEI now though. Which means “anyone not a straight, white, male American who lives Trump.” It’s a very specific demographic that includes almost everyone on Earth.
Oh man! I want that presentation for an Easter dinner I have coming up!
This is awesome!
Glad you like it! I edited it to add a transcript.
“Watch me backflip onto this this market table to make space for the MAGA hats” - Jesus ‘The Donald’ Christ.
of course not. god goes with red wine. money goes with white wine.
White “whine”
So they rationalize it that god is money
