- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.zip
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.zip
Can’t run Windows 11? Don’t want to? There are surprisingly legal options
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Too late (for me), but seeing how things are going, Windows 11 will probably be my last Windows that ever deal with. Will be moving to Linux.
I used Linux for many years from 2005 to probably 2013 or so, and I liked it. I decided to go back a couple of years ago, and now I love it.
Honestly I’m getting a bit tired of discussions about Windows getting hijacked by people almost aggressively pushing Linux as the go-to alternative. I’m sure Linux is good, but it often feels less like helpful advice and more like proselytizing. I think most users aren’t looking for a whole paradigm shift, they want improvements within the environment they already know, not a completely different system with its own learning curve and compromises.
Honestly, I am getting a bit tired of Windows (which is pretty much adware garbage at this point) being the only mainstream OS for laptops and desktops.
I am also extremely tired of half-assed status quo defenders like you that always say, “people just aren’t ready”. This is clearly a disingenuous argument born out of ignorance and apathy.
Lemmy clearly has a Linux slant just as Reddit did before all the Winblows people did exactly what you are doing now. So respectfully get bent.
I find your comments particularly hollow on regards to UI changes as Microsoft is the most guilty party ever for changing the interface and forcing people to relearn everything (hello ribbon bar, Windows 8, Windows 11 lack of start bar configurations, and of course constantly changing where settings are located).
The only cult that is proselytizing is Windows bootlicking losers. The fact that Linux users are passionate about the superiority of owning your software and not giving your money and personal information to a corporation that will sell you out in a second is just common sense.
100%, most normies won’t survive a day on Linux.
You’re not going to get “improvements” in Windows, that should be clear by now. Crystal clear, I would think.
Linux IS good, and today, the “paradigm shift” is more like a gentle learning curve with people holding your hand every step.
I’m an old geezer who made the jump a year ago, it really isn’t hard. Literally, the only thing I miss is the big preview window in the file manager. Big previews for all of the major formats is a big plus for Windows, but not one that kept me on their side.
the only thing I miss is the big preview window in the file manager
I may be misinterpreting you, but I think this is a thing with Dolphin. It has a preview pane, which supports all the file types I commonly interact with (F11), which can be dragged to resize bigger or smaller.
I haven’t used any preview thing on Windows, which is why I think I may be misunderstanding.
Anyways if you haven’t tried Dolphin, maybe it has a solution for you (made by kde project, but I believe it should be installable for any desktop environment).
Stick with Windows. Microft will deliver paradigm shifts and you will have no say in the matter. They are already removing options for disabling Copilot, and for all the promised backward compatibility they are letting go of features that lots of old Windows software depended on, as they introduce features similar to ones in Linux. I cannot really fault them for all of these changes, but the difference is actually one of choice and privacy, and not really the one you seem to think it is.
Unfortunately if you take alternatives out of the running you’re kind of just left with impotent rage against one of the biggest companies in the world and their shareholders.
Why would Microsoft ever care about some mildly upset users on Lemmy when they know said users are locked into their product for life?
My advice is to move your computing to an environment that opens options for you and responds to your wants and needs rather than an environment that treats you like a guinea pig to experiment on, or an actual pig to force-fed slop to.
You will never convince Microsoft that you’re tired of their slop if you keep eating it.
Not saying changing OSes is easy, but it is easier than it’s ever been, and the dividends have been worth it for me.
It’s been this way for decades. They don’t realise that by constantly bashing windows, they’re not making Linux better, theyre just demonstrating what sort of bitter snobbery you’ll be dealing with if you switch.
I use Arch btw.
I just want my games to work man. I have a huge library of weird and old games that I have spent years tinkering with to get them to run reliably on modern windows, I honestly cannot be arsed having to re-fix everything on Linux. WINE is not perfect and Proton doesn’t support everything.
Amen, games on Windows just work with no fuss.
Which games are concerns for you? Genuinely asking.
I’m been using Linux full time since 2004, and while I think it is good to let people know it is there, I don’t recommend it to people I’m not willing to personally support. But, I also let them know I just can’t help with Windows problems either, and they should address their complaints to their OS vendor.
I file Debian bugs if I have a problem with my OS, and have received fixes that way. This is better support that I ever received from MS during my first 2 decades of using MS OSes.
I really feel like the linux thing is far more cultural than practical, and if you don’t actually enjoy fiddling around with settings and software, you’re probably not going to enjoy the community either.
I have no idea what I’m going to do, I can’t afford a new PC nor do I have the desire to buy a new PC just because Microsoft says jump through this new hoop. I’ll probably just do a bypass and ask around the docks for a security key “workaround” from the friendly, local, sailors with eyepatches and peg legs.
If your machine has a TPM chip, you can bypass the other requirements to upgrade to 11 with a simple registry edit. Not sure if that’s an option for you, but it saved parents’ older Surface device from the landfill.
TPM cup
I googled this and now I’m enrolled in a yacht race… thanks.
Yeah yeah, I blame autocorrect.
Have you asked the question “why do so many discussions get hijacked by people saying to switch to Linux”? It’s not because there are a bunch of Linux nut jobs that need to validate their questionable choice by getting other people to make the same choice. It’s because Linux works and it works well. Out of the box, with no command line configuration, Linux will serve most end users computer needs. For those of us that use Linux, this Windows 10 thing is a joke, because its a problem that has a simple solution. There is no need to go through installing a whole different Windows 10 OS when you can switch to Linux and be done.
Then you should have no issue naming a distro that is a 1:1 equal of Windows 10 or maybe even 7, but with none of the enshittification and only upsides.
Lay down your selection critia. What features does Windows 10 have that you want a Linux equivalent for, and what does the Linux equivalent need to have for you to consider it 1:1.
Not to beat a dead horse since I’m sure it always comes up, but Linux Mint does literally everything I want to do on my computer, and maybe a little bit more than my work computer that runs Windows.
Distro isn’t important, for a novice user the defference, basically, is what software is in the official repository, and how easy it is to google shit. Unless you chose something very obscure somehow, you’ll be fine.
That’s an impossible metric. No OS will be 1:1 equal to another, that’s just ridiculous. But plenty of distros are ready today to replace common use cases. Maybe it won’t replacy yours, but it can replace a lot of people’s.
“I see you’re worried about abuse by priests in the Catholic Church. Can I interest you in Buddhism?”
I’m not sure I get the analogy here… Do you think there will be less abuse by priests if there are more Catholics?
I’m not sure I get the analogy here… Do you think there will be less abuse by priests if there are more Catholics?
🤦♂️
First, do you think Microsoft would do less shady shit if there were more Windows users? I’m sort of confused about where you’re finding that interpretation of the metaphor.
But more importantly, as I explained in my other reply I was just riffing on the proselytizing comment. It made me chuckle to think about someone being advised to change religions after voicing a (legitimate) frustration with their religious leadership.
There is a philosophical difference using Open Source software. To compare it to religion is pretty shitty honestly, even if you find it amusing. Linux is not faith it is logic.
No, I think more MS users = MS shady shit. So, to discourage MS shady shit, I encourage people to not use MS software. I also think that people who are worried about abuse by priests should not tithe or otherwise donate to Catholic churches (belief matters less than action here; and it’s less reasonable to swap out belief system, I guess.)
That’s why your analogy seems backwards to me.
Doesn’t matter anyway. I guess I just don’t get it. Have a nice day.
I promise I wasn’t trying to make any value statements at all. I wasn’t speaking in favor of Windows or of the Catholic Church. Just something that made me chuckle. 🙄
It may be my perspective comes from western civilization, but do Buddhists have similar child abuse scandals?
It may be my perspective comes from western civilization, but do Buddhists have similar child abuse scandals?
I have no idea, that wasn’t my point with the metaphor.
I was riffing off the “proselytizing” comment and comparing someone complaining about some shady shit Microsoft does and then being advised to change to Linux, with someone complaining about some shady shit the Catholic Church does and then being advised to change to Buddhism.
It’s not a perfect metaphor, but it gave me a chuckle when I thought of it.
I picked those religions because Catholicism in its singular “what the Vatican says goes for everyone” approach mapped well onto Microsoft and Windows, and I thought Buddhism, a religion with many flavors, some of which are more structured than others, mapped well onto Linux and its various distros.
“Linux is great ha ha you just have to know which one you want and they are all vague and technical ha ha if there’s a problem just program a solution yourself you know programming ha ha we’re not a cult I swear anyway I told my grandma she’s a piece of shit because she didn’t want to switch to Linux even though she doesn’t own a computer I only yelled at her for five hours straight about it”
Though for real I might actually try it out, I like open source stuff and my friend said it’s not hard.
It’s not that bad. My programming experience is Matlab and a bit of python, so not much. My command line experience was almost non-existent before switching, and tbh still isn’t that good.
I haven’t fully switched yet, I’ve dabbled in Linux a few times over the last ten years, starting to fully switch now. Have one old PC running a Debian based server OS and a bunch of free self hosted services. Personal laptop is now Debian. Work laptop stuck on windows. Desktop is still windows for gaming, but I’ll probably even change that soon. I’m still in a bit of a distro hopping phase to figure out what I like before switching the desktop.
Yeah, if you’re interested, you should give it a shot.
People always talk about the learning curve and compromises, but Linux is finally in the “shit just works” stage, so it’s not much different than the Mac/PC decision people make every day.
Heck, in a lot of ways it is more similar to Windows than Mac is, so it should be an easier decision. For some reason though, everyone still treats it like… Well… It would be like treating Windows like you still have to know DOS.
That’s just not true anymore.
Linux isn’t good. Not for home users that want it to just work, imo. Linux will fight you at every step of the way, over every little thing. I’ve tried various versions over the years and I’ve always been put off by how anti-user it is. Want to set a custom dpi? Fuck you. Want to set a custom cursor size or colour? Fine, but fuck you it won’t work in a browser window. Want an on screen keyboard? Fuck you. Want to update or install anything that isn’t in a package store? Fuck you, terminal.
I switched to Mint last year. Had a few hiccups, but I have everything working just how I want it now.
Windows problem solved.
I see that we’ve entered the bargaining period.
Jokes on them! I got rid of windows last week and now have Linux Mint on my PC! It’s great! All my games run and I’ve set up my own screenshot shortcut in a way that I want. Installing software through terminal commands is also a lot of fun.
Haha. I too switched to Linux Mint last week. So far no regrets. I’ve actually enjoyed making everything I need to work. Especially because it seems to work better that on the operating system it was designed for. Strange.
How does Mint work with (old) NVIDIA drivers? I’m going to have to do the switch sometime this year and I am still debating which distro would give me the least troubles running games and applications via Proton / Wine.
It’s been working fine with my GTX 1060. I’ll probably get around to trying different distros at some point, but I’m pretty happy with mint. Most of the issues I’ve had with it have been due to its emphasis on stability; that is, it’s slower to incorporate changes than more cutting-edge distros. At least, that’s been my impression—I’m no Linuxologist.
My guess is that they will work just fine! Most distros will work equally well once set up, but some may require an extra step or two for driver installation. From what I’ve seen, Mint is a good starting point overall and is what I’m recommending to friends right now who are using Linux for the first time :)
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Install Linux and be done with the Microsoft bullshit. No windows, no copilot, no shit teams, no outlook, nothing of the nonsense, just software that actually works
I’m a developer, and I can’t just skip Windows support, also the “GUI” for debuggers on Linux aee pretty much just separate terminals for gdb, and often I can’t just jank my way out with
printf()from various issues.Valid reason.
However,…Virtual Machine?
also the “GUI” for debuggers on Linux aee pretty much just separate terminals for gdb, and often I can’t just jank my way out with printf() from various issues
And that is an issue because…?
Is the second point supposed to be a negative rather than an implementation detail?
Anyway, vscode would probably work for you. Or try clion. Like VS, but with decent cmake support, clang integration, better auto complete, simpler tool chain management, faster index, no daily crash/hanging, better git/lab integration, cross platform support… Actually never mind, there is indeed nothing like VS IDE wise. Whatever that means
I personally use RemedyBG + Kate + langservers (I might even make my own), which is actually better than VS.
ltsc iot is on my gaming pc that I spin up once biweekly. Got the os from massgrave and most of the games from fitgirl.
If it’s a competition of getting work done, Linux is clearly superior. Windows has always just gotten in my way when I’m trying to do something with the OS.
There’s no denying though that you gotta use the right tool for the job. I ain’t forkin my time over to get Linux to work with triple-A pirated games and all that VM and wine shit. I’m just going to install ltsc and forget about it. Just as how I’m not wasting my time on Windows to install software packages, libraries, or whatever the fuck Subsystem is.
I recently switched to PopOS! And it’s been great. Not being pressured into Microsoft applications and using your Microsoft account is great
Just the name itself sounds like an an angsty teenage dream. Not really selling it there.
I didn’t like the name, but it was a nice option for Nvidia laptops esp. from System76.
I ended up replacing it with Ubuntu; but I can’t remember exactly why. I normally use Debian.
I don’t know how you got “angsty teen” from a cute name like Pop.
It just makes me laugh because they have a “!” At the end of their name. It just looks kinda goofy, kinda like when influencers have sponsored posts and they include the “™” in their copy haha
That being said, PopOS! is actually a great os.
That’s about as ‘judging a book by it’s cover’ as it gets.
Ultimately OP isn’t trying to sell it to you, they’re just saying that for them, they’ve been happy with it.
And hey, if you choose your distros based on their name, I’d like to see you sell that idea.
Linux mint is another really good windows refugee friendly distro. And if you want a gaming COVID one then bazzite is the one to go for (it’s basically steam OS, but there’s a full fledged desktop version too)
i hate you guys so much. once in their lifetime, theregister writers actually manage to recommend something useful, and you guys start to shit all over the comment section.
for the microsoft forum admins: no, ltsc is fine. you can install a store, but since its running on an early feature version with fresh security updates, xbox gamepass wont like it much. same goes with the cod launcher.
for the neckbeard freedomfighters: linux cannot solve every problem.
ive been using 10 ltsc for 5 year now. still not as great as win7, but nothing ever gonna beat that os. less telemetry, less services, no ms store (but can be installed with 3rd party softwares). runs a ton more smoother on laptops as well. main problem will be getting updates from certain softwares: programs only check for the main build version, and ltsc is going to look like its outdated, your programs might deny your updates (i would say 3 years from now). keep in mind, 11 also has an ltsc version: no bloat in the start menu, no store, less telemetry…but still looks like arse. i would recommend getting an oem key for cheap, or yohoho on the massgrave site, dont support ms with a full price.
neckbeard freedomfighters
LOL, that is delicious.
Been downvoted plenty of times for saying I don’t get 1/10th of the Windows hassle lemmy talks about, probably less. Don’t have the LTSC version of 11, but it’s from a plain Jane ISO, not a factory install, which I would bet is the cause of many people’s pain.
A sensible response. Windows has its pros, and Linux has its cons. I personally don’t care for Windows anymore, but that’s because I grew up with Linux in the home alongside Windows, ultimately chose Linux despite the cons.
Exactly. Use what you want. For me, that’s Linux, and for my SO, that’s Windows. It really doesn’t need to be a religious thing.
My wife prefers her Macs. She’s got the infamous A1706 MacBook Pro (I’ve already had to fix a few things on it), and a 27" iMac from the last run of Intel based machines.
But she does recognize the walled garden for what it is, and her seeing me effectively make my machines do what I want is making her want an Android phone 😅
it’s just horse armor what’s the big deal?
Switch to Linux
I would but my DJ gear is over a decade old and none of it is compatible with Linux. It won’t even run on a modern CPU without crashing Serato, so I use an old laptop with a 4th gen i5 running LTSC to power my turntables and mixer; it all runs smooth as butter on period-correct hardware.
Eventually I will get new gear and try to get it working in Linux, but I don’t have thousands to drop right now on updated hardware, so I make do with what I have.
Why not encapsulate Windows 10 in a VM? You can run it indefinitely as long as you don’t give it Internet.
Because I don’t want to run hardware that needs to operate in realtime over a USB 2.0 connection through a VM. I have digital turntables with high-resolution platters. These are precision instruments that require the absolute lowest DPC latency obtainable; I need to eliminate as much overhead as I can, and have my equipment running as close to the bare metal as I can get from a modern OS.
What kind of music do ya play?
Open format, so literally anything and everything. I go entirely by audience reaction when deciding what to play. But mostly I like happy songs with a party vibe.
You sound like someone I would love to see play!
If you’re interested, you can listen to some of my old shows from when I was a radio DJ. Haven’t uploaded in awhile, though (fucking copyright).
Not sure if you’re using a desktop or laptop (unclear if you’re doing DJ stuff for mixing privately or gigging on the road), but hardware passthrough through something like SR-IOV would make latency a non-issue.
However, I get what you’re saying. I was more thinking of the “I want to run this on a legacy operating system for as long as I can” aspect of things. Eliminating the concern of the hardware no longer supporting a more modern operating system was what I was trying to get at. Sorry if that didn’t come through.
What would be the point? That’s just staying on Windows, with extra steps and lower performance.
The VM protects somewhat from network attacks and spread. But, I do imagine most vulnerabilities of Win10 would still be exploitable, and you would be sacrificing some performance, yes.
They mention their equipment is legacy and only supports Windows 10. An Airgapped VM of Windows 10 is a good option to continue supporting legacy hardware.
My company has decided to dedicate me and another coworker to go computer-2-computer and check if they have TPM 2.0 support.
I’m doing my best to push a Linux switch in our workplace!
It’s not just tpm 2.0 support, but simply Intel 8th gen or higher or Ryzen
Intel 6th gen CPUs could totally support tpm 2.0 but they decided to cut them off because $$$
There is no real technical reason, management wanted the line to go up so they had meetings and meetings with the engineering teams in order to find a somewhat reasonable excuse to send to the landfill millions and millions of perfectly usable computers
I have so many old games and programs on my win10 PC that the amount of effort it would take to get everything back to the way it was, would almost argue for just getting a New PC and not bothering with the migration.
I know that its not based in science… but I just dont trust windows OS migration. I did it once from Vista to 7, and something messed up, and had to reformat the entire drive and fresh install, losing everything.
as for getting a new PC , hardware wise, it will cost me several thousand and will probably only be a fraction of an increase of the system I have right now. its just not worth it.
so all in all, I think Im going to just play danger zone, and ride Win10 into the digital apocalypse for a while.
I have on the same windows install gone from 7 to 10 to 11 without much issue. There were several win 10 updates that fucked with my setup more then the upgrade process.
LTSC is supported, yes, but it’s an edge case not intended for desktop (or most server) applications.
If you don’t want to move to 11, install a flavour of Linux. Don’t run LTSC.
I’ve installed Linux mint about a month ago and it’s been great. The only real problem that stops me from moving everything over is:
I can’t properly play small untranslated Japanese games that aren’t on steam
To be clear, I can run them just fine, it’s just that the translator I used (VN Translator Neo) can’t be run on Linux. When I run it using wine, the window just goes black
I’ve tried a few other image-based translators, but they all either don’t run or don’t detect the game in wine
If anybody has a workaround (besides dual booting windows) I’d be very grateful
There it is. Top post is always someone casually telling you to “Just install Linux.”
I see your point but the correct answer is to install current branch. If you want pain and suffering, skip the appetizer and go straight to Linux.
I’ve been using 10 LTSC for a few months now, it works great with the few Windows-only apps I still use. I mainly use it to organize my media library, but it’s not had any problems with the few games I’ve installed with Kernel-level anti-cheat (Destiny 2, Delta Force)
I had to download the Xbox Accessories app to control my Elite controller, but that’s really it.
You might likely run into issues with GPU (and other) windows drivers, which might stop supporting old windows 10 versions. At least that happened already with LTSC/LTSB. I expect this to happen especially when ordinary windows 10 EOL is reached.
Is that much of a big deal though? Running old GPU drivers is fine, other than maybe if you like playing the latest AAA games down the road.
I mean eventually it will be an issue, but for a long time I imagine they will work just fine.
Well, it just depends on your use-case. Sometimes new games or applications require newer drivers or directly a newer Windows version. This is something you just have to be aware of.
At least that was a reason I switched LTSC Windows over to Enterprise for some people.
I’ve certainly had games stop working with older drivers. Older games, even.
But maybe.
Personally I just moved to Linux with Proton, but is not for everyone.
Only shit thing is a couple online games I like playing are dicks about their anti cheat and not wanting to be Linux compatible.
Small price to pay
Not really. I pretty much exclusively use my desktop pc for gaming. I have a laptop for doing work on.
Even smaller then
What is this disclaimer warning about? I have used LTSC exclusively as a desktop OS since 2019 and everything works. I have not had an instance of something not working that would have otherwise worked on Enterprise or Home, etc. I game in 4k, edit videos, run a jellyfin server, mine monero. I’m confused about what you mean
I even upgraded the system without a clean installation and everything worked perfectly and I have huge customization in my pc.
I am curious as to why you think so that it’s not intended for desktop applications. I don’t really have a say in server applications as I don’t use any such software. What I use W10 LTSC is mainly for my engineering softwares which won’t work properly with WINE. All normal software that you expect to work in home version also seems to be working minus all the bloat and more control over configuration. I feel like it’s the most clean version of windows that one can use now.
Simply, because Microsoft says so. The amount of “omg micro$oft is such garbage” more professional versions of that that can be attributed to not RTFM is fairly significant. It’s interesting how much effort people will put in to making a OSS project work, and give up fairly quickly in Windows land. Merely an observation; all respect to those who daily drive on Linux (and to be fair it’s been quite a few years since I tried).
More specifically, you can run into driver and software issues both inside and outside of the Microsoft space. The “Feature Updates” that are put out do include a fair bit under the hood sometimes and you miss that. Less likely in the personal use space, but quite significant in the business space. When the IT curmudgeon deploys LTSC across 1500 devices and 2 years later needs to implement a newer capability, it’s a hell of a lot of work.
Your use case is realistically the intended use case, outside of industrial equipment/embedded systems. You’re using WINE for most stuff and poke your head into Windows occasionally.
Specifically on what they say:
They intend it for stuff that really is specialty systems or single apps, like ATMs or stuff that drive CAT scans. Not geberal-purpose systems.
Doesn’t mean it won’t work for a whole lot of other people, though.
My employer has been using it for desktop AutoCAD installs for year now.
I don’t know how to install Linux in my MacBook Pro 2014 without fucking up macOS, I do have Win10 installed already with Bootcamp, so this LTSC version already looks more interesting to me than any of the Linux flavors.
Did you attempt to look it up?
Yeah I did install Linux (Mint) on my MacBook Pro 2014. Maybe three months ago. Do. Not. Recommend.
It installed fine. I had to search and install three or four drivers. Fine. But getting the webcam to work was a jumble of mismatched, often contradictory tools and instructions. After lots of hacky attempts, I finally got off-color, blocky, low frame rate video out of it. And there was one other aspect—maybe sleeping—where I tried a bunch of shit and never got it to work. Not to mention it was slower doing comparable tasks vs. MacOS
I have two other Linux machines in the house. They work great for what they need to do. But it’s not the right tool for every application, and anyone who says it is is just being silly.
Comparing your experience with macOS would be a bit unfair, how about with Windows?
For example I can tell the sleep feature works better in macOS than Win10… Battery backup as well…
I wouldn’t know, I haven’t tried it with windows. Only Mac and Linux
Once several years ago, I needed to use 3rd party tools and I wasn’t too confident to mess up with the MacBook, which is considerably more locked than previous laptops I have ever used, that is why I wanted to stay in the Boot Camp field.
I thought what the public health sector gonna do if they don’t allow W11 in old PCs, and later I remember that in Mexico they use W7 with IE, lol. BTW I think they could use Linux, my mum was a nurse there and she only used OpenOffice and a web browser
Issue with healthcare IT is they cannot just upgrade willy nilly. They have to make sure that whatever computer they’re changing isn’t responsible for something big and they have to make sure everyone who uses it can use it. You still have some critical system PCs in hospitals that run DOS and sometimes even older.
so end of LTSC is the year of the Linux desktop?
Any day now
Why even bother at this point? Linux has become so good it’s actually easier and more familiar to use than the clusterfuck that is windows 11.
Linux user here, I really hate this kind of bullshit. Just stick with the facts there are loads of reasons to use Windows. And for a lot of people I would still recommend Windows.
Another twenty plus years Linux server and devices admin and user that found last year that Linux is finally mature and stable enough to replace my desktop too without having the fiddle with it every once in a random update. It was a decision that I can accept making workarounds for legacy windows software and l can live without other eco system. Yeah, there are plenty of reasons that people are still running Windows and keep doing so.
Don’t make being user of an operating system your identity, people. It’s just as annoying and unnecessary as those Apple fanboys we all know and dislike.
Exactly. I’ve been Linux exclusive for something like 15 years, and I’m usually the first to tell people to stick with Windows if there’s even one piece of software they say they’ll miss. If they really want to use Linux, they’ll ignore me. If they would’ve bailed when something didn’t work perfectly, they would likely write it off and never try it again, so it’s better to leave that door open IMO.
And for a lot of people I would still recommend Windows.
Eh, only if someone needs it.
For instance my 75 year old father is happily using Linux Mint on his laptop. Why? Because all he’s doing with it is web surfing, watching youtube, and checking his email. At home that’s all most people are doing, especially older people. I set his up so that it backs up his stuff and auto-updates. It just works and if it does get broken I can recover it with minimal effort.
It’s the same for me at home. My main PC is Linux Mint where I do almost everything. For the occasions I need Windows I have an Intel NUC attached to my KVM. For work I’ve got LM installed on my work laptop and when I need Win11 I have a VM setup in QEMU/KVM with it.
Are there people who have workloads, or gameloads, that only run on Windows? Sure there. We all know that.
But there are a lot of people, especially home users, who could easily run Linux and don’t.
This… It’s not so much that I’d never advocate a windows install, it’s that linux should be the first port of call and Windows be the specialist fallback for when Linux doesn’t handle the use case well.
Exactly. These type of comments only come from an immature POV that how they use Linux is how everyone would use Linux.
How well does Linux run Solidworks?
Oh right, it doesn’t…at all.
Linux is useful for many things but just doesn’t cut it for the majority of people reliant on single deal breaker items.
You’re also SOL if you have a couple of decades of music projects in various DAWs (though predominantly Ableton, plus a decent number of Maschine & Reason projects, for me) using all sorts of VSTs from over the years. I keep several versions of some VSTs installed so I can open older projects, and those older versions are never getting patched to fix broken Linux support by the developer, even if a more modern version does get fixed. It’s all got to come from wine devs, which frankly probably have more important issues to focus on.
I’ve tried a few times to get Ableton working with all my plugins and MIDI hardware and it’s always been an exercise in madness ultimately resulting in failure and usually a lost weekend. It particularly doesn’t like anything with my iLok key involved, last I tried a couple of years ago.
I happily run Linux elsewhere, but my main desktop is going to mainly run Windows for the foreseeable future unless something drastically changes. At least my projects aren’t all in Logic!
There’s also some software I use for my photography that didn’t properly work on Linux when I last tried (e.g. GPU features in PureRAW are the main thing I remember), but I think there’re some alternatives there I’d look at if I could get the audio production stuff working perfectly.
I’ve been working on getting set up for music production on Linux, it is possible, but it has a lot more challenges. Manjaro Linux running the 6.13 RT kernel has worked well for stability with Bitwig Studio and Ardour, but the amount if plugins that are impossible or very difficult to install makes it feel limited.
Heard of dual boot?
Been doing it for the better part of 20 years now.
Can’t say I would recommend dual booting both OSes off the same drive. Windows causes too many problems. Put Windows on an entirely separate drive instead and boot to it by changing the boot device in the BIOS.
Why not put it in VM?
The only thing I’d suggest if you do that is to have at least 32 GB of RAM, because I was in a situations where running few Electron apps, and Win11 VM caused RAM to fill up. But if you’re not running Electron apps you should be fine with 16 GB.
And if you’re planning to play games, you could use GPU passthrough for near-native performance, but from what I’ve heard it’s a bit hard to set up.
Oh, I do both. My whole point was to avoid partitioning one physical disk to install both OSes on.
My current setup:
-Windows 11 installed on one NVMe. This is only for playing games that absolutely won’t work any other way.
-Pop OS on another NVMe. This is my main OS.
-Windows 11 VM in VirtualBox for work stuff and normal applications (Adobe…)
Proc is a Ryzen 5 9600x. Machine currently has 64gb DDR5 RAM at 5200mhz.
I run a dual boot system with no issues at all. Just need a second drive for Linux and let GRUB chain load the Windows disk.
That’s effectively the same as what I described, is it not? The only difference is you’re using GRUB to choose what to boot into. It’s still a two disk setup with Windows separate from the Linux disk.
When’s the last time you tried? I had a hell of a time dual booting in ~2016, but as of the last five years or so I’ve set up half a dozen dual boots without issue, and Windows (LTSC) hasn’t messed up any of the partitions.
I have one, it still isn’t great. Windows update routinely fucks with it. Currently using windows as my daily driver because I can’t be arsed to fix my Linux partition again
This is basically what killed my Linux laptop. Some windows update borked the partitions (and not just grub) so that Linux wouldn’t boot anymore. I would never recommend using both on the same disk.
I don’t really use that laptop for much anymore though.
Yeah I wanted to use my new pcie 5.0 nvme for both Linux and windows but it’s not even being recognized as nvme in windows apparently, so I think I’m gonna reset all this shit and put windows on my old nvme and Linux on the new one but it’s a hassle.
Windows only applications mostly. The ones I use are Fusion 360, Photoshop, Lightroom, and NI Labview. Unfortunately CAD/Graphic design software also often really struggles to run in WINE, especially with updates happening fairly often.
I’ve thought of a windows VM, but that’s just not worth the extra effort of dealing with hardware passthrough to get proper GPU acceleration.
I really like Linux, all my servers and VMs run Debian or Alpine. But it’s just a lot of work for desktop use in my experience (yes I know some of you have never had a single thing break), stuff just randomly breaks for no reason, I’ll do a system update and just get a black screen from botched GPU drivers, or back when I ran GNOME my extensions would randomly break after an update and never work again, sometimes installing a simple application like steam would nuke my package manager.
As much as people complain about windows and some do have poor experiences, for me it’s pretty much set and forget, I installed W11 on my desktop maybe 4 years ago shortly after release and it’s just… there. It works fine, it doesn’t break, all my apps, games, and drivers still work after updates.
Fusion 360 is a big sticking point for me too. I tried FREECAD but it ran like ass on every system I’ve tried it on. I’m currently dual booting but windows already wiped the secure boot key once which rendered the Linux os unbootable somehow even after I turned off secure boot. That was like a week after setting it up. I hadn’t even got started on the laundry list of other shot I needed to get working on Linux.
The number of times I have read people say the “need” Photoshop and the works is crazy high. I am really curious what important work all of you are doing with all that proprietary software you list as necessary.
Also that is why you should only learn open source software from the start. I’m learning Blender atm and I absolutely refuse to touch anything like Maya. I don’t want to be locked into an operating system by some software.Photoshop I can mostly replace with Photopea and Penpot, but Lightroom alternatives are not easy to use (or are RAW editors only and don’t do photo management) and I haven’t figure out what to do there yet.
Fusion 360 is the real sticking point, there’s no replacement for that or anything that even comes close.
- To use Windows only and legacy software.
- Some laptops don’t support Linux due to missing drivers.
- Some very old people hate change and would want to use windows 10 till the end of times, matter of fact I had seen a full office with about 5 desktops that is still running windows xp. (Spoiler alert:they got a ransomware 2 years ago.)
- finally, Windows is idiot proof, meaning that it’s kind of hard to ruin desktop windows during the normal operations. In comparison, a bad Linux update could fuck your boot loader beyond repair (it happened to me twice in fact, once on openSUSE tumbleweed and the other on Clear Linux).
Windows is idiot proof, meaning that it’s kind of hard to ruin desktop windows during the normal operations.
Are you new? Windows will barf all over itself and all your files doing regular updates. Happened to my wife’s computer just recently. She has almost nothing installed on it aside from Steam and Chrome. Windows update turned itself into a hot mess, and it’s a known issue. The only option was to do a completely fresh install of Windows.
Idiot proof my ass.
I agree. I had frequent problems when I used it, which could take days to figure out, and even then might only be solved by a full reinstall. Linux has had significantly fewer problems for me, and those problems are solved much more easily. My bf is a huge Windows fan, but it seems like he’s struggling with some problem he can’t figure out every other month. Half a drive left as unallocated space instead of being included in a partition, causing constant “disk full” messages, was the most recent issue. On top of bad updates. I don’t bother suggesting he switch, because I know he’s happy with it, but Windowt definitely isn’t problem-free.
I have to disagree about the idiot proof. KDE Plasma and Mate Desktop are more idiot proof and easy for newbies than Windows 10-11, yet have more features in their simple control panels.
I’ve had no bootloader problems in the last 10 years of Debian, Linux Mint, and Ubuntu (15-20 installs, plus another 20-30 if you count VMs.) However, my work computer’s bootloader was semi-bricked twice in 2019 (Windows 7).
- To use Windows only and legacy software.
This is a fair point. If you’re a creator and need adobe software then Linux is pretty much a no go. However, a lot of windows software have Linux equivalents (and those
- Some laptops don’t support Linux due to missing drivers. are generally free as well), so its a matter of doing research.
If you pick the right distribution it may include all the drivers you need. So far I tested 5 distributions and they all worked straight out of the box. I’ll test Linux on a Mac this afternoon and see how it goes, but I’m optimistic it will just work also.
Some very old people hate change and would want to use windows 10 till the end of times, matter of fact I had seen a full office with about 5 desktops that is still running windows xp. (Spoiler alert:they got a ransomware 2 years ago.)
Fine. These people who refuse to adapt to the world can just keep using windows. No skin off my nose either way.
finally, Windows is idiot proof, meaning that it’s kind of hard to ruin desktop windows during the normal operations. In comparison, a bad Linux update could fuck your boot loader beyond repair (it happened to me twice in fact, once on openSUSE tumbleweed and the other on Clear Linux).
Now this “idiot proof” take is really funny. You see, I’ve been using Mint for about a month now, never having to log into Windows. Yesterday I needed to log into windows and was immediately met with an update (against my consent), followed by a blue screen of death and when I restarted my laptop my profile couldn’t be acceded and I was instead logged into a safe Environment.
I ended up having to troubleshoot using the Registry to get my account back. If this is idiot proof I have no idea what you consider a system that just works (which is what Linux does in my experience). You’d feel like Heaven is on Earth. On another note, WiFi never autoconnected on login in on windows in my laptop, but it does on Linux.
As for the issues you had, I understand. Rolling releases aren’t for everyone and if you’re not particularly into tinkering or just use your laptop to browse the web, an immutable distro is pretty much unbreakable.
Otherwise, Linux Mint is very conservative so it won’t break with updates (and in the rare instance that does, you can just use Timeshift to rollback the updates anyway).
I’ll test Linux on a Mac this afternoon and see how it goes, but I’m optimistic it will just work also.
I have Mint running on 2011 and 2014 Mac minis. It’s basically flawless. The only trouble you might have is finding the wifi driver, depending on which model you’re using. Iirc, the minis were fine, but the 2011 MacBook Pro I put it on was a little more difficult to track down. But ethernet worked right out of the box, so it wasn’t a huge deal.
Linux on Apple Silicon is a trickier proposition, but getting less tricky all the time.
Sounds lovely, thank you for that feedback. I’m very excited to try. I’m gonna try to install Aurora OS (immutable) and boot from a pendrive on my wife’s Mac (it has an Intel processor still, so it should be fine). If everything works well, I’m sure shell be very happy.
Windows is idiot proof
Could we at least add more idiot support to system crashes?
Windows has a QR code for you to scan, you can make a personalized recovery drive so that it restores your computer, ctrl alt delete gives you options to click on.
I’ve been trying out several Linux distributions over the past couple of weeks to figure out where to go after Windows 10.
I’m very open to switching. but if I have to be honest, there are still plenty of UX problems in my experience. It’s frustrating enough that I keep going back to Windows.How long did you try each one? Usually when trying anything new it takes a little while to get used to the things that you readily accept as “just how things are” with something you have been using for a while. I am a long-term Linux user and I can tell you that Windows has plenty of major UX problems when I occasionally have to use it on someone else’s PC.
When the keyboard doesn’t work correctly, that is not “just how it is” though…
I’m not going to relearn how to type accents for the sake of switching to Linux. The OS should just work correctly out of the box, or at the very least give me the option to fix the behaviour without having to go 20 internet forums deep and delving into the depths of the system files.
I tried Mint for four days before getting fed up with things not working as they should, went back to Windows for a week and then tried Fedora for two days again running into very similar issues.
You might need to switch to a keyboard layout with or without dead keys depending on your preference. Not quite sure how Windows does it these days other than some vague nightmares about the layout switcher thing in the task bar from a few years ago that kept switching back semi-randomly when switching applications. Some of the changes in how accents are typed are actually related to using accented characters less than the characters on their own (e.g. backticks) but others might also be related to making things easier for people with disabilities that prevent them from pressing certain key combinations.
The issue I’m talking about is unrelated to keyboard layouts. It’s how deadkeys are implemented.
The deadkeys are seemingly defined separately from keyboard layout, and there is no way that I could find to redefine them other than either turning dead key behaviour on or off in the keyboard layouts
Which distribution did you try?
Mint Cinnamon and Fedora KDE Plasme Desktop.
I ran into various issues, one of them being (for example) incorrect behaviour of dead keys for accented characters. That problem was present in both distros, and I even went so far as to unsuccessfully edit system files to get the desired behaviour.
That problem was present in both distros, and I even went so far as to unsuccessfully edit system files to get the desired behaviour.
What desired behaviour are you talking about exactly?
Because I have used those exact two distros, also with deadkeys since I type in Portuguese and Spanish alongside English, and deadkeys works just fine for me.
So the keyboard I’m using is US International (with deadkeys), which is the standard keyboard for the Netherlands.
Certain key combinations should create an accented character, but certain other key combinations should simply print the accent followed by the character. Typing this way is essentially muscle memory for me, so if it deviates from what I’m used to it really trips me up badly.
Example:
', followed byeshould typeé(which Linux did correctly)
', followed bymshould type'm(where Linux typed an accentedḿ)
', followed bycshould typeç(where Linux typed an accentedć)
', followed by'should type''(where Linux typed')
', followed by[]should type'(which Linux did correctly)I checked several forums, but there doesn’t seem to be an easy way to change this behaviour in Linux. Dead key behaviour is seemingly consistent between keyboard layouts, and it can only either be on or off?
Hey, so I just tested this and you’re right, it doesn’t work as you described.
I suppose I unconsciously found workarounds and just ran with it.
For the examples you mentioned:
I’m is achieved by typing ’ and then space.
ç you can get with AltGr+<
The other two, I have no idea what they are, but I trust your judgment.
I also went around some forums and yeah it appears other people report it doesn’t work as it should. A bummer.
Maybe there already are some custom keyboard layouts out there you can download?
To get
Wow! Thank you for going through the effort of figuring out whether there was a solution for me. I really appreciate it!
And yeah… I could probably type all the characters I need to type through workarounds. But my problem is that I don’t think I should have to relearn how to type in order to switch to Linux. It’s a relatively niche issue I ran into, but I’m clearly not the only one running into it.
Which is a shame because I do want Linux to be more widely used than it is currently, and I think small annoyances like this are part of what is holding it back. It makes it more of a hassle to overcome the hurdle of switching OS.
I wish I could use Linux for everything, but there are still things you need Windows to run. It would be amazing to be able to run Nuke, Houdini, Ableton Live and the Native Instruments manager on Linux, but it’s not remotely possible now.
… because I have a Samsung Odyssey+ VR headsets, which needs “Windows Mixed Reality” (Windows VR) and was gutted/removed from Windows 11 (and doesn’t work on Linux).
https://lvra.gitlab.io/docs/hardware/ According to this your VR headset works with “✅Monado SteamVR plugin” on Linux
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I hear you, but me get this straight:
Windows fleeced you out of a technology they were supposed to support for the years to come, but you’re still gonna snide Linux and stay with Windows? Lol.
Well, unless this is an offer to buy me a replacement Quest or Pico (all of which, work on Linux) “yes, I’m going to stay with Windows 10” (and/or maybe dual boot).
Developers decide what platforms they want to support based on what resources they have available and the kinds of users they wish to target. They create versions of software where they expect to garner enough market share or based on what gives them the most return on investment. Even at a 4% market share, Linux is still pretty much an edge case for many companies, though I agree that a corporation like Samsung can absolutely afford to make their software available on Linux
Biggest one is going to remain gaming. If anything, I’m beginning to feel like Steam Proton is starting to harm Linux gaming efforts more than helping them. I’ve known games that have dropped native Linux support because “It works on Proton!” only for the game to not actually work on Proton.
If we could get to a world where every game could actually be run on Linux with minimal hassle, maybe then you can beat the drum that there’s no point using Windows. Until then, it’s going to remain the OS for gaming.
Jesus Christ this community never fucking misses a chance change a discussion to Linux. It’s tiresome.
Sorry for trying to improve everyone’s lives. How selfish of us to share superior technology.
I guess we’ll just hoard all the good stuff and not let you guys have any of it from now on.
Yes well done, thanks for spreading the good news, I’ve been saved.
Torvalds be with you. Go in peace.
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I don’t know man, I’ve been trying to mount my network share on Ubuntu for a few days already.
I don’t have experience with setting up networks on Linux, but Ubuntu should have some guides available, no?
In any case, I was speaking from the perspective of someone who used Linux Mint and Fedora. Both work pretty much out of the box with little tinkering.
CIFS or NFS?
