Honestly I’m getting a bit tired of discussions about Windows getting hijacked by people almost aggressively pushing Linux as the go-to alternative. I’m sure Linux is good, but it often feels less like helpful advice and more like proselytizing. I think most users aren’t looking for a whole paradigm shift, they want improvements within the environment they already know, not a completely different system with its own learning curve and compromises.
Honestly, I am getting a bit tired of Windows (which is pretty much adware garbage at this point) being the only mainstream OS for laptops and desktops.
I am also extremely tired of half-assed status quo defenders like you that always say, “people just aren’t ready”. This is clearly a disingenuous argument born out of ignorance and apathy.
Lemmy clearly has a Linux slant just as Reddit did before all the Winblows people did exactly what you are doing now. So respectfully get bent.
I find your comments particularly hollow on regards to UI changes as Microsoft is the most guilty party ever for changing the interface and forcing people to relearn everything (hello ribbon bar, Windows 8, Windows 11 lack of start bar configurations, and of course constantly changing where settings are located).
The only cult that is proselytizing is Windows bootlicking losers. The fact that Linux users are passionate about the superiority of owning your software and not giving your money and personal information to a corporation that will sell you out in a second is just common sense.
You’re not going to get “improvements” in Windows, that should be clear by now. Crystal clear, I would think.
Linux IS good, and today, the “paradigm shift” is more like a gentle learning curve with people holding your hand every step.
I’m an old geezer who made the jump a year ago, it really isn’t hard. Literally, the only thing I miss is the big preview window in the file manager. Big previews for all of the major formats is a big plus for Windows, but not one that kept me on their side.
You’re not going to get “improvements” in Windows, that should be clear by now.
This is the crux of the issue. Holding out for improvements … that aren’t coming.
I have Windows 11 and am unlikely to change this computer (though who knows), however I absolutely plan on my next build being Linux. I might start tinkering around in a VM.
the only thing I miss is the big preview window in the file manager
I may be misinterpreting you, but I think this is a thing with Dolphin. It has a preview pane, which supports all the file types I commonly interact with (F11), which can be dragged to resize bigger or smaller.
I haven’t used any preview thing on Windows, which is why I think I may be misunderstanding.
Anyways if you haven’t tried Dolphin, maybe it has a solution for you (made by kde project, but I believe it should be installable for any desktop environment).
Yes I am dumb normie. Who has set up for doing things a certain way. I have my cnc plasma tables, my 3d printers and cnc mills. They are essential to my business. I need to be able to run the cad programs, communications and links. I have spent alot of hours already establishing this, learning how to do this. I don’t have time to re learn all this because I “should switch to linux” I don’t have time to learn new cad programs because the ones i use aren’t Linux friendly. Many of us normies just don’t have that spare time to go through the process. I just need something that I know will work.
Unfortunately if you take alternatives out of the running you’re kind of just left with impotent rage against one of the biggest companies in the world and their shareholders.
Why would Microsoft ever care about some mildly upset users on Lemmy when they know said users are locked into their product for life?
I just want my games to work man. I have a huge library of weird and old games that I have spent years tinkering with to get them to run reliably on modern windows, I honestly cannot be arsed having to re-fix everything on Linux. WINE is not perfect and Proton doesn’t support everything.
I don’t know what games other commenter has, but my understanding is that there are a lot of issues with anti-cheat software not working properly with Linux.
Although I don’t really have a direct interest in buying a Steam deck, I’m hoping that its popularity helps push for games to be more Linux-friendly.
Stick with Windows. Microft will deliver paradigm shifts and you will have no say in the matter. They are already removing options for disabling Copilot, and for all the promised backward compatibility they are letting go of features that lots of old Windows software depended on, as they introduce features similar to ones in Linux. I cannot really fault them for all of these changes, but the difference is actually one of choice and privacy, and not really the one you seem to think it is.
My advice is to move your computing to an environment that opens options for you and responds to your wants and needs rather than an environment that treats you like a guinea pig to experiment on, or an actual pig to force-fed slop to.
You will never convince Microsoft that you’re tired of their slop if you keep eating it.
Not saying changing OSes is easy, but it is easier than it’s ever been, and the dividends have been worth it for me.
It’s been this way for decades. They don’t realise that by constantly bashing windows, they’re not making Linux better, theyre just demonstrating what sort of bitter snobbery you’ll be dealing with if you switch.
I’m been using Linux full time since 2004, and while I think it is good to let people know it is there, I don’t recommend it to people I’m not willing to personally support. But, I also let them know I just can’t help with Windows problems either, and they should address their complaints to their OS vendor.
I file Debian bugs if I have a problem with my OS, and have received fixes that way. This is better support that I ever received from MS during my first 2 decades of using MS OSes.
I really feel like the linux thing is far more cultural than practical, and if you don’t actually enjoy fiddling around with settings and software, you’re probably not going to enjoy the community either.
I have no idea what I’m going to do, I can’t afford a new PC nor do I have the desire to buy a new PC just because Microsoft says jump through this new hoop. I’ll probably just do a bypass and ask around the docks for a security key “workaround” from the friendly, local, sailors with eyepatches and peg legs.
If your machine has a TPM chip, you can bypass the other requirements to upgrade to 11 with a simple registry edit. Not sure if that’s an option for you, but it saved parents’ older Surface device from the landfill.
I’m not sure I get the analogy here… Do you think there will be less abuse by priests if there are more Catholics?
🤦♂️
First, do you think Microsoft would do less shady shit if there were more Windows users? I’m sort of confused about where you’re finding that interpretation of the metaphor.
But more importantly, as I explained in my other reply I was just riffing on the proselytizing comment. It made me chuckle to think about someone being advised to
change religions after voicing a (legitimate) frustration with their religious leadership.
There is a philosophical difference using Open Source software. To compare it to religion is pretty shitty honestly, even if you find it amusing. Linux is not faith it is logic.
There is a philosophical difference using Open Source software. To compare it to religion is pretty shitty honestly, even if you find it amusing. Linux is not faith it is logic.
Hoooooly fuck. I was just riffing off the other guy using the word proselytizing. I wasn’t trying to make any sort of point.
Go outside and leave me alone. Fuck. I’ve already explained this multiple times.
Linux is fucking awesome. But you all take yourselves way too seriously. You’re making the community look like complete tools.
No, I think more MS users = MS shady shit. So, to discourage MS shady shit, I encourage people to not use MS software. I also think that people who are worried about abuse by priests should not tithe or otherwise donate to Catholic churches (belief matters less than action here; and it’s less reasonable to swap out belief system, I guess.)
That’s why your analogy seems backwards to me.
Doesn’t matter anyway. I guess I just don’t get it. Have a nice day.
I promise I wasn’t trying to make any value statements at all. I wasn’t speaking in favor of Windows or of the Catholic Church. Just something that made me chuckle. 🙄
It may be my perspective comes from western civilization, but do Buddhists have similar child abuse scandals?
I have no idea, that wasn’t my point with the metaphor.
I was riffing off the “proselytizing” comment and comparing someone complaining about some shady shit Microsoft does and then being advised to change to Linux, with someone complaining about some shady shit the Catholic Church does and then being advised to change to Buddhism.
It’s not a perfect metaphor, but it gave me a chuckle when I thought of it.
I picked those religions because Catholicism in its singular “what the Vatican says goes for everyone” approach mapped well onto Microsoft and Windows, and I thought Buddhism, a religion with many flavors, some of which are more structured than others, mapped well onto Linux and its various distros.
Have you asked the question “why do so many discussions get hijacked by people saying to switch to Linux”? It’s not because there are a bunch of Linux nut jobs that need to validate their questionable choice by getting other people to make the same choice. It’s because Linux works and it works well. Out of the box, with no command line configuration, Linux will serve most end users computer needs. For those of us that use Linux, this Windows 10 thing is a joke, because its a problem that has a simple solution. There is no need to go through installing a whole different Windows 10 OS when you can switch to Linux and be done.
Then you should have no issue naming a distro that is a 1:1 equal of Windows 10 or maybe even 7, but with none of the enshittification and only upsides.
Lay down your selection critia. What features does Windows 10 have that you want a Linux equivalent for, and what does the Linux equivalent need to have for you to consider it 1:1.
Distro isn’t important, for a novice user the defference, basically, is what software is in the official repository, and how easy it is to google shit. Unless you chose something very obscure somehow, you’ll be fine.
That’s an impossible metric. No OS will be 1:1 equal to another, that’s just ridiculous. But plenty of distros are ready today to replace common use cases. Maybe it won’t replacy yours, but it can replace a lot of people’s.
Not to beat a dead horse since I’m sure it always comes up, but Linux Mint does literally everything I want to do on my computer, and maybe a little bit more than my work computer that runs Windows.
“Linux is great ha ha you just have to know which one you want and they are all vague and technical ha ha if there’s a problem just program a solution yourself you know programming ha ha we’re not a cult I swear anyway I told my grandma she’s a piece of shit because she didn’t want to switch to Linux even though she doesn’t own a computer I only yelled at her for five hours straight about it”
Though for real I might actually try it out, I like open source stuff and my friend said it’s not hard.
It’s not that bad. My programming experience is Matlab and a bit of python, so not much. My command line experience was almost non-existent before switching, and tbh still isn’t that good.
I haven’t fully switched yet, I’ve dabbled in Linux a few times over the last ten years, starting to fully switch now. Have one old PC running a Debian based server OS and a bunch of free self hosted services. Personal laptop is now Debian. Work laptop stuck on windows. Desktop is still windows for gaming, but I’ll probably even change that soon. I’m still in a bit of a distro hopping phase to figure out what I like before switching the desktop.
People always talk about the learning curve and compromises, but Linux is finally in the “shit just works” stage, so it’s not much different than the Mac/PC decision people make every day.
Heck, in a lot of ways it is more similar to Windows than Mac is, so it should be an easier decision. For some reason though, everyone still treats it like… Well… It would be like treating Windows like you still have to know DOS.
Linux isn’t good. Not for home users that want it to just work, imo.
Linux will fight you at every step of the way, over every little thing.
I’ve tried various versions over the years and I’ve always been put off by how anti-user it is.
Want to set a custom dpi? Fuck you.
Want to set a custom cursor size or colour? Fine, but fuck you it won’t work in a browser window.
Want an on screen keyboard? Fuck you.
Want to update or install anything that isn’t in a package store? Fuck you, terminal.
Honestly I’m getting a bit tired of discussions about Windows getting hijacked by people almost aggressively pushing Linux as the go-to alternative. I’m sure Linux is good, but it often feels less like helpful advice and more like proselytizing. I think most users aren’t looking for a whole paradigm shift, they want improvements within the environment they already know, not a completely different system with its own learning curve and compromises.
Honestly, I am getting a bit tired of Windows (which is pretty much adware garbage at this point) being the only mainstream OS for laptops and desktops.
I am also extremely tired of half-assed status quo defenders like you that always say, “people just aren’t ready”. This is clearly a disingenuous argument born out of ignorance and apathy.
Lemmy clearly has a Linux slant just as Reddit did before all the Winblows people did exactly what you are doing now. So respectfully get bent.
I find your comments particularly hollow on regards to UI changes as Microsoft is the most guilty party ever for changing the interface and forcing people to relearn everything (hello ribbon bar, Windows 8, Windows 11 lack of start bar configurations, and of course constantly changing where settings are located).
The only cult that is proselytizing is Windows bootlicking losers. The fact that Linux users are passionate about the superiority of owning your software and not giving your money and personal information to a corporation that will sell you out in a second is just common sense.
You’re not going to get “improvements” in Windows, that should be clear by now. Crystal clear, I would think.
Linux IS good, and today, the “paradigm shift” is more like a gentle learning curve with people holding your hand every step.
I’m an old geezer who made the jump a year ago, it really isn’t hard. Literally, the only thing I miss is the big preview window in the file manager. Big previews for all of the major formats is a big plus for Windows, but not one that kept me on their side.
This is the crux of the issue. Holding out for improvements … that aren’t coming.
I have Windows 11 and am unlikely to change this computer (though who knows), however I absolutely plan on my next build being Linux. I might start tinkering around in a VM.
I may be misinterpreting you, but I think this is a thing with Dolphin. It has a preview pane, which supports all the file types I commonly interact with (F11), which can be dragged to resize bigger or smaller.
I haven’t used any preview thing on Windows, which is why I think I may be misunderstanding.
Anyways if you haven’t tried Dolphin, maybe it has a solution for you (made by kde project, but I believe it should be installable for any desktop environment).
https://apps.kde.org/dolphin/
100%, most normies won’t survive a day on Linux.
Yes I am dumb normie. Who has set up for doing things a certain way. I have my cnc plasma tables, my 3d printers and cnc mills. They are essential to my business. I need to be able to run the cad programs, communications and links. I have spent alot of hours already establishing this, learning how to do this. I don’t have time to re learn all this because I “should switch to linux” I don’t have time to learn new cad programs because the ones i use aren’t Linux friendly. Many of us normies just don’t have that spare time to go through the process. I just need something that I know will work.
Unfortunately if you take alternatives out of the running you’re kind of just left with impotent rage against one of the biggest companies in the world and their shareholders.
Why would Microsoft ever care about some mildly upset users on Lemmy when they know said users are locked into their product for life?
I just want my games to work man. I have a huge library of weird and old games that I have spent years tinkering with to get them to run reliably on modern windows, I honestly cannot be arsed having to re-fix everything on Linux. WINE is not perfect and Proton doesn’t support everything.
Amen, games on Windows just work with no fuss.
Which games are concerns for you? Genuinely asking.
I don’t know what games other commenter has, but my understanding is that there are a lot of issues with anti-cheat software not working properly with Linux.
Although I don’t really have a direct interest in buying a Steam deck, I’m hoping that its popularity helps push for games to be more Linux-friendly.
Stick with Windows. Microft will deliver paradigm shifts and you will have no say in the matter. They are already removing options for disabling Copilot, and for all the promised backward compatibility they are letting go of features that lots of old Windows software depended on, as they introduce features similar to ones in Linux. I cannot really fault them for all of these changes, but the difference is actually one of choice and privacy, and not really the one you seem to think it is.
My advice is to move your computing to an environment that opens options for you and responds to your wants and needs rather than an environment that treats you like a guinea pig to experiment on, or an actual pig to force-fed slop to.
You will never convince Microsoft that you’re tired of their slop if you keep eating it.
Not saying changing OSes is easy, but it is easier than it’s ever been, and the dividends have been worth it for me.
It’s been this way for decades. They don’t realise that by constantly bashing windows, they’re not making Linux better, theyre just demonstrating what sort of bitter snobbery you’ll be dealing with if you switch.
I use Arch btw.
I’m been using Linux full time since 2004, and while I think it is good to let people know it is there, I don’t recommend it to people I’m not willing to personally support. But, I also let them know I just can’t help with Windows problems either, and they should address their complaints to their OS vendor.
I file Debian bugs if I have a problem with my OS, and have received fixes that way. This is better support that I ever received from MS during my first 2 decades of using MS OSes.
I really feel like the linux thing is far more cultural than practical, and if you don’t actually enjoy fiddling around with settings and software, you’re probably not going to enjoy the community either.
I have no idea what I’m going to do, I can’t afford a new PC nor do I have the desire to buy a new PC just because Microsoft says jump through this new hoop. I’ll probably just do a bypass and ask around the docks for a security key “workaround” from the friendly, local, sailors with eyepatches and peg legs.
If your machine has a TPM chip, you can bypass the other requirements to upgrade to 11 with a simple registry edit. Not sure if that’s an option for you, but it saved parents’ older Surface device from the landfill.
I googled this and now I’m enrolled in a yacht race… thanks.
Yeah yeah, I blame autocorrect.
“I see you’re worried about abuse by priests in the Catholic Church. Can I interest you in Buddhism?”
I’m not sure I get the analogy here… Do you think there will be less abuse by priests if there are more Catholics?
🤦♂️
First, do you think Microsoft would do less shady shit if there were more Windows users? I’m sort of confused about where you’re finding that interpretation of the metaphor.
But more importantly, as I explained in my other reply I was just riffing on the proselytizing comment. It made me chuckle to think about someone being advised to change religions after voicing a (legitimate) frustration with their religious leadership.
There is a philosophical difference using Open Source software. To compare it to religion is pretty shitty honestly, even if you find it amusing. Linux is not faith it is logic.
Hoooooly fuck. I was just riffing off the other guy using the word proselytizing. I wasn’t trying to make any sort of point.
Go outside and leave me alone. Fuck. I’ve already explained this multiple times.
Linux is fucking awesome. But you all take yourselves way too seriously. You’re making the community look like complete tools.
Taking this a tad bit personally I see. I was just commenting on the conversation. I don’t speak for any community.
Your definitely a bit of wanker to be honest.
No, I think more MS users = MS shady shit. So, to discourage MS shady shit, I encourage people to not use MS software. I also think that people who are worried about abuse by priests should not tithe or otherwise donate to Catholic churches (belief matters less than action here; and it’s less reasonable to swap out belief system, I guess.)
That’s why your analogy seems backwards to me.
Doesn’t matter anyway. I guess I just don’t get it. Have a nice day.
I promise I wasn’t trying to make any value statements at all. I wasn’t speaking in favor of Windows or of the Catholic Church. Just something that made me chuckle. 🙄
It may be my perspective comes from western civilization, but do Buddhists have similar child abuse scandals?
I have no idea, that wasn’t my point with the metaphor.
I was riffing off the “proselytizing” comment and comparing someone complaining about some shady shit Microsoft does and then being advised to change to Linux, with someone complaining about some shady shit the Catholic Church does and then being advised to change to Buddhism.
It’s not a perfect metaphor, but it gave me a chuckle when I thought of it.
I picked those religions because Catholicism in its singular “what the Vatican says goes for everyone” approach mapped well onto Microsoft and Windows, and I thought Buddhism, a religion with many flavors, some of which are more structured than others, mapped well onto Linux and its various distros.
Have you asked the question “why do so many discussions get hijacked by people saying to switch to Linux”? It’s not because there are a bunch of Linux nut jobs that need to validate their questionable choice by getting other people to make the same choice. It’s because Linux works and it works well. Out of the box, with no command line configuration, Linux will serve most end users computer needs. For those of us that use Linux, this Windows 10 thing is a joke, because its a problem that has a simple solution. There is no need to go through installing a whole different Windows 10 OS when you can switch to Linux and be done.
Then you should have no issue naming a distro that is a 1:1 equal of Windows 10 or maybe even 7, but with none of the enshittification and only upsides.
Lay down your selection critia. What features does Windows 10 have that you want a Linux equivalent for, and what does the Linux equivalent need to have for you to consider it 1:1.
Distro isn’t important, for a novice user the defference, basically, is what software is in the official repository, and how easy it is to google shit. Unless you chose something very obscure somehow, you’ll be fine.
That’s an impossible metric. No OS will be 1:1 equal to another, that’s just ridiculous. But plenty of distros are ready today to replace common use cases. Maybe it won’t replacy yours, but it can replace a lot of people’s.
Not to beat a dead horse since I’m sure it always comes up, but Linux Mint does literally everything I want to do on my computer, and maybe a little bit more than my work computer that runs Windows.
“Linux is great ha ha you just have to know which one you want and they are all vague and technical ha ha if there’s a problem just program a solution yourself you know programming ha ha we’re not a cult I swear anyway I told my grandma she’s a piece of shit because she didn’t want to switch to Linux even though she doesn’t own a computer I only yelled at her for five hours straight about it”
Though for real I might actually try it out, I like open source stuff and my friend said it’s not hard.
It’s not that bad. My programming experience is Matlab and a bit of python, so not much. My command line experience was almost non-existent before switching, and tbh still isn’t that good.
I haven’t fully switched yet, I’ve dabbled in Linux a few times over the last ten years, starting to fully switch now. Have one old PC running a Debian based server OS and a bunch of free self hosted services. Personal laptop is now Debian. Work laptop stuck on windows. Desktop is still windows for gaming, but I’ll probably even change that soon. I’m still in a bit of a distro hopping phase to figure out what I like before switching the desktop.
Wow that takes me back
Yeah, if you’re interested, you should give it a shot.
People always talk about the learning curve and compromises, but Linux is finally in the “shit just works” stage, so it’s not much different than the Mac/PC decision people make every day.
Heck, in a lot of ways it is more similar to Windows than Mac is, so it should be an easier decision. For some reason though, everyone still treats it like… Well… It would be like treating Windows like you still have to know DOS.
That’s just not true anymore.
Linux isn’t good. Not for home users that want it to just work, imo. Linux will fight you at every step of the way, over every little thing. I’ve tried various versions over the years and I’ve always been put off by how anti-user it is. Want to set a custom dpi? Fuck you. Want to set a custom cursor size or colour? Fine, but fuck you it won’t work in a browser window. Want an on screen keyboard? Fuck you. Want to update or install anything that isn’t in a package store? Fuck you, terminal.