I did some political stuff back in the day. We used to say “when people vote, democrats win.” I don’t need a win, I just need the fascist pedo kleptocratic octogenarian to lose.
Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good. Fyi… vote in fing primaries, that is the only way to fix the kinda bad side.
Which side thinks that food, medicine, and shelter are a human right and not just access to them is a right? I’ll always vote for that side.
Posts about blaming a minuscule minority of voters are specifically designed to encourage people to not look for the causes of rising fascism.
Keeping people distracted and attacking their socialists allies is the only way Democrats can continue to move further to the right and join Trump’s new “War on the Extreme Left”.
If you don’t see the connection, you have a problem.
This is a misunderstand. It’s not about voting. It never was. It’s about organizing.
Sure vote for harm reduction. Yes, it can slow things down a bit temporarily, but don’t think it’ll save your life. Both parties are genocidal fascists who will continue to escalate war and state violence. From a capitalist standpoint, fascism is correct and necessary. Profits have fallen too low, democracy is no longer profitable, no matter which party is in charge. The billionaires need living standards to drop much lower. But in a democracy, people would not be willing to accept that, so they need to be disciplined violently.
Democrats, just like Republicans will come for your loved ones, arrest communists, continue imperialist wars and genocide, shut down strikes and unions, militarize the police. Simply because Democrats are capitalist and within capitalism, fascism is the next logical step. Not for ideological reasons, but because of real material economic facts. The facts demand fascism. Democrats will adapt or cease to be Democrats.
When Nazi fascism was defeated in Europe, it wasn’t by voting for the lesser fascists. The only way to save democracy is to organize real resistance, that’s able to enforce demands.
If you have limited capacity to contribute and organize, don’t waste your time campaigning for the Democrats. Vote for them, if it makes sense in your state, but that’s just one day. If you have any energy to spare the rest of the year: talk to your neighbors and coworkers about real solutions. For example general strikes and anti-fascist community self defense. Learn communist theory, start a reading group. Join a Marxist org.
Literally why Israel got trump in office
It’s far from the only way. They have the means to rig elections or cancel them altogether.
If you think voting is getting you out of this mess, you’re in for a reality check.
Nevermind that we hold parties accountable and make them actually represent the people. If centrist/corporatist Democrats wanted to win, they should be listening to the people, and they refuse to do that. They are absolutely complicit in what’s been happening over this past decade, even long before that.
Orban lost because everyone went out and voted for the other party. If you watch interviews of voters, a lot of them said they don’t agree on everything with who they are voting for, but it must be done to progress away from the Orban era.
Democracy is a slow process, and sometimes, voting for the lesser of two evils is the only choice you have. It opens the door for better candidates in the next elections to come.
Or, you know… you can do an armed revolution. But lately, they don’t bring the change everyone hopes for.Both sides are bad. One is markedly worse though.
Yes. Also, there is zero, ZERO path to anything better through the Republocan party.
There are plenty of ways to eventually get somewhere through the Dems. It may mean “suffing” alot of do nothing bull shit, but there are paths and ways.
The fun part is, that the Republicans didn’t even start out as a Maga cult party. They got infiltrated. Not just by rich people, but by people from all sorts of backgrounds, joining or voting for support. Nothing is stopping the left from doing the same with the Democrats. But for that to happen, they’d need to stop with the constant purity tests…
Nothing is stopping the left from doing the same
Intellectual honesty. The left will say what they actually want, the alt-right will lie their way in. “I’m literally an anarchist” versus “oh I’m just a fiscal conservative”.
The tea party was supposed to be normal “folks” but was really funded by the Koch’s Americans for Prosperity (a proto-superpac).
Progressives would have to vote in primaries first.
We pragmatic progressives are doing that right now
We unfortunately do not seem to be the majority of the progressives, at least as represented here. Way too many here advocate not voting.
Bruh, I’m trying to be pragmatic and that includes voting, so many tankies and doomer selfish leftists here
And these days, the left is doing that as we speak.
The MAGA cult is basically onky two groups.
Fanatic idiots who cling to religious fantacy like its fact because they are too stupid to comprehend the world, this stupidity also fuels a shitload of racism and bigotry, for the same reason.
And richblibertarian assholes who want to tear the world of regulation down to better allow them to rape the population and planet for maximum profits.
The rich assholes figured out how to weaponize the idiots using fear to grest advantage. I used to feel a bit sorry for the idiot cult for being manipulated but they basically refused to ever change so fuck those people.
Actual mainstream Democrats are not doing “purity tests”, a lout, super left wing branch is. I am not saying they have bad wants and desires, and ultimately they are right on a lot of issues, and personally, I agree with them on a lot of issues, but they are loud, and a bit of a fringe part, and for the greater good, for now, can be mostly ignored.
Mostly.
They should NOT be ignored in favor of just, sliding more tonthe right. Like, just picking an issue, maybe there is a compromise on trans athletes, because it probably is tricky, but that doea not mean compromising on trans people ompletely, andletting it start to slide to other queer groups, which is starting to happen.
The big lynchpin that feels like its brought up a lot is the Israel/Palestine war. Which is probably the stupidest one. Yes Israel sucks, and what they are doing to Palestime is very terrible, but hesus fuck you don’t sacrifice the country and ultimately everyone else in the world to the fucking Fascists over it. Both sides are shit, and who fucking cares in the end.
Actual mainstream Democrats are not doing “purity tests”, a lout, super left wing branch is.
Yeah, i’m not talking about democrats as a whole, they’re not “left” from a European perspective, i was talking about those who are quite a bit further left of centre. The people who “taught the Dems a lesson” by *checks notes* hiding at home, writing performative bullshit on social media and are dogpiling on anyone who dares to cast a shadow of a doubt at their imaginary moral high ground. As i had the pleasure of experiencing first hand, when i dared to question the decision of some random US non-voter commenting on Bluesky…
The point is, that pretty much every party can be changed from the inside, if people are persistent enough. Change never happens on its own. At least not for the better. And if you want to help people in other countries, you first need to make sure your own country stays safe. Sadly, the US is a two-party failed state, and in my opinion, the only realistic peaceful way to change that, is to join the lesser evil of the two parties and force the change from within. The other option is to just burn everything to the ground and start from the beginning.
It’s called reforming a party. And yes, the Dems are much more likely to be reformed and it is the true path forward.
As long as people are not apathetic what most likely will happen is that Republican will disappear and Democrats will split into two parties. It happened in the past.
Okay, but there’s a difference between “both sides are bad” and valid criticism of the democratic party.
Exactly. Only fight the Democrats 364 days a year.
So vote blue no matter who?
If you push them 364 days a year you actually might want to vote for them
How delightfully reductionist. Though essentially, yes. Our system of elections is antiquated and should be changed, but until it is, voting how you WISH the system functions instead of how it actually functions is working against your own interests.
To side-step the electorialism conversation a bit: Americans need to take a page out of the French handbook. Civil engagement should not begin and end at voting.
We should be joining leftists organizations, anti-capitalist reading groups, mutual aid groups, workers unions, tenants unions, self-defense groups, community gardens, and real grassroots communities built on trust. These will form the foundation for future protests, boycotts, workers strikes, renters strikes, and, if necessary, civil disobedience. The workers of America have become so anemic that our politicians no longer fear us.
We were trained how to protest, and the history of protest, wrong on purpose. Our cities were atomized which happens to make quelling, compartmentalizing, and hiding unrest much easier. We would be doing great if we were simply anemic. If I had to put numbers to the current landscape: 1/3 anemic, 1/3 actively supporting their own oppression, 9/30 concerned but confidently doing the wrong things to solve their problems, 1/30 pretty much fucked.
Our cities were atomized which happens to make quelling, compartmentalizing, and hiding unrest much easier. We would be doing great if we were simply anemic.
On a personal note, I’ve been to several protests were (it feels as though) the only people who are watching us are the police on the ground and the drones in the sky. We march down the approved path, which has been sectioned off from the rest of the city, and yell about various issues. Then we all go back to work on Monday. Pretty demoralizing at times but it’s better than being terminally online.
We need to show the Democrats that being conservative light is not good enough by making it have consequences in primaries.
The lesser of two evils trap demoralizes people and makes them think that this is the best we can hope for from a politician but it’s not, We’ve seen a rise of left-wing politicians lately and we can do better.
We must participate whenever possible and the choices aren’t always great but they do still matter.
So yes, Democrats actively doing less damage than the Republican counterpart, and no it isn’t good enough.
People deserve a world where hope can be a part of it.
Yeah, well said. We need to start forcing them into left and make the Democrats support leftism again
When did the Democrats support leftism? FDR literally created racialized redlining and put anyone who looked vaguely Japanese into concentration camps and stole their property. Obama deported 3M people. You mean the minor political offices of a few mayors around the country that were Sewer Socialists? The party has never been leftist
Yes, participate in primaries, but if the corpo dem wins a primary still vote for their disgusting self over a Republican (unless there is a VIABLE third party candidate)
unless there is a VIABLE third party candidate
Which there absolutely isn’t.
I mean I gotta put it in to stave off the “but what about bernie” s
Yes, participate in primaries, but if the corpo dem wins a primary still vote for their disgusting self over a Republican (unless there is a VIABLE third party candidate)
This assumes that the problem is that Republicans are in office. That’s not actually the problem. The problem is that the corpo bloc has candidates in both the Ds and the Rs. and replacing Rs with corpo Ds is not actually making any progress.
There’s multiple problems. Society isn’t so simple as to assume there’s one problem. Corpo dems and Republicans are both problems, both worsening society, but one is an accelerant.
Given that the country was founded on the same principles of EuroFascism, by ultraminority white supremacist christian patriarchs who wanted to create lebensraum on the continent by genociding and enslaving anyone and anything in their way and enlisting every citizen in the project through vast systems of social influence and control… I would say the Republicans are the status quo, not an accelerant.
Any argument that is based on “it was founded on” where the founding situation is 100+ years ago is ridiculous. Times change. Times have changed.
Insult the present not the past and realize that Republicans are an accelerant.
Perhaps you don’t understand what I’m trying to say. I’m not trying to insult the past. I’m saying that the Republicans cannot be an accelerant towards our starting point. The USA has always been an ultraviolent blood-soaked fascist Christian-White-Supremacist mass murdering rapacious child-kidnapping torture paradise for the rich and depraved. It’s never not been that. The Republicans aren’t accelerating anything except the inevitable end of your fantasy that middle class white Americans and those who assimilate to be like them would have comfortable lives that were distant from the material and moral consequences of the empire.
I understand what you’re trying to say. I have the presence of mind to realize the progress that was made since the 60s. I have the presence of mind to also realize it wasn’t founded as a christ state as you so pretend too, even if the rest is certainly true. It has been things other than that, and we worked very hard to make it that way, trump is trying to tear it back down again.
I’m by no means saying the USA is good. But in all politeness, if you’re saying that about the usa I hope you have the presence of mind to realize that china and Europe were founded on the same, and Europe has demonstrably changed for the better. Being bad is a spectrum.
I’m saying that the Republicans cannot be an accelerant towards our starting point.
I can tell you failed math class by this alone. Just as an aside.
Yeah because when I look at this political landscape it’s all of them voting together. Pretty easy to see /s
Jfc the stupidity I see here. Fuck
The Democrats are CONSTANTLY participating in the bipartisan consensus. Biden has been supporting Israeli ultraviolence for 5 decades at this point. Bill and Hillary had house slaves in the AR governor’s mansion. Obama and Biden brought in Tom Homan and made it possible for ICE to deployed into cities and deported more than twice the number of people Trump has. Obama and Hillary fanned the flames of Libyan civil war and then gloated when the 70-year-old leader of the country was sodomized with a bayonet in a public lynching by the mercenaries they funded and armed. Everyone knew that the telecoms broke the law when they were caught recording all internet traffic for the NSA and everyone voted to grant them retroactive immunity. Obama declared Venezuela a national security threat in order to ramp up the torture on its citizens.
Racialized mass incarceration is a bi-partisan consensus.
Racialized means testing for public services is a bi-partisan consensus.
Racialized ecocide is a bi-partisan consensus.
Militarization of the police is a bi-partisan consensus.
Putting immigrants and asylum seekers into solitary confinement is a bi-partisan consensus.
Killing 800k people globally from sanctions alone, predominantly children and elderly, is a bi-partisan consensus.You’re not looking at the political landscape. You’re looking at the PR. You know what the Rs and the Ds are doing together? Golfing. Vacationing. Eating lunch and dinner. Meeting up at alumni events. Networking at private school events for their kids. They’re fucking dancing together, on video, with no fucking sense of shame. They are literally working for the same people every single day of their lives, and those people are the same ultraminority that founded the country and designed it to work this way.
What part of vote for progressives in the goddamn primaries do you fuckin morons fail to grasp?
The part where it would work? The Democrats have already shown that they will do everything to stop it, from ratfucking to procedural malfeasance to standing up sheepdogs to siphon off the vote.
And even if you get a handful of progressives primaried in, you’re still looking at a Senate structurally incapable of representing the voters. 70% of the Senate seats are decided by 30% of the US population. That’s by design and original intent. It’s been that way this whole time. You think voting in a couple more reps with progressive politics is going to make a damn bit of difference?
You’re right progressives totally didn’t just sweep the primaries all over the country… Fuckin people get what we deserve.
If you’re going to vote for them regardless of the candidate, there are no consequences for the party in the primaries.
I can see the point when more than 1% of the population votes in primaries
Both sides are bad" is true, though. The Democrats and Republicans are infiltrated by Zionists. The reality that both sides are bad could also motivate people to vote for a third party.
40 plus years of neo liberal policy, that yes have been embraced by ‘both sides’, has been destroying the nation and for some reason people don’t want to admit it.
The “some reason” is because most educational text and all entertainment media are published by the same six corporations, all of whom are owned by billionaire parasites who profit greatly from that Neoliberal policy.
And for whom both parties work
Getting slapped and getting stabbed are both bad. But not equally bad.
Voter: That guy’s got a knife and he’s coming for me! What do I do?
D: Vote for me and I’ll keep you safe!
Voter: OK! Here I go… let’s… voooooooote!
D: I win the election, thanks to everyone who donated to my campaign. This is a win for all of us, not just me.
Voter: Ok, now take that guy’s knife away.
D: <slaps voter> How dare you criticize me after my very tenuous and delicate victory!
Voter: But he still has the knife and he’s still coming for me.
D: Donate $25 to my campaign for re-election and we’ll stop the knife wielding maniacs!
Voter: But you won already. Are you going to stop the knife wielding maniacs?
D: We can’t unless you vote D in the next election.
Voter: But I voted D in this one, and you won, and he still has a knife
R: Haha! I have won the next election. Here I come with my knife that no one took from me!
D: How would we have lost?! It must be the voters’ fault! Donate $25 to my campaign and we’ll send out weird postcards saying that we’ll know if you voted or not
Voter: Well, getting slapped is not as bad as getting stabbed!
To give some more specific examples:
Liberal voters: We pay more for healthcare than anyone else! Can you use our money for Medicare for All?
Politicians:
Voters: Why have we been blockading Cuba since fucking 1962? Make it stop!!
Politicians:
Voters: Scientist are warning about climate change!! We need to take drastic measures!
Politicians:
Voters: ICE is killing people and racially profiling! It’s a danger to us all and must be abolished!!
Politicians:
Voters: Stop killing brown people with our tax dollars! Pull support away from Israel!!
Politicians:
Leftists: I can no longer support the Democratic Party
Liberal voters:
Withholding your vote only puts gasoline on the fire. Voting for something is not support, it is selecting from available paths and they are not of equal harm. The most important elections to vote in are primaries where you get to choose who you’ll be choosing.
Please note that voting should always be done in conjunction with civil protest and mutual support networks.
Withholding your vote only puts gasoline on the fire.
Can you say this to a Palestinian-American or Latin American with a straight face? The Democratic Party is still complicit in genocide abroad and refuses to accept abolition of Trump’s personal white supremacy army. Several Democrats are implicated in the Epstein Files and their colleagues are covering for them. If you don’t think these are the appropriate lines in the sand to draw, then the line doesn’t exist. The “lesser evil” rhetoric will justify anything.
…civil protest and mutual support networks
I refuse to criticize anyone who is engaged in activism, and/or voting third party, rather than voting for the Democratic Party. We should all be joining leftists organizations, anti-capitalist reading groups, mutual aid groups, workers unions, tenants unions, self-defense groups, community gardens, and real grassroots communities built on trust. Such communities will form the foundation for future protests, boycotts, workers strikes, renters strikes, and, if necessary, civil disobedience. That is the only way the American people can regain control at this point.
Look at the data. Under Trump, Gaza got an embassy move, funding cuts to UNRWA, and open talk of annexation. Under Biden, it got bombs,but also pauses, pushback, and at least some rhetorical distance. That’s not enough. It’s nowhere near enough. But it’s less. Same with Iran, Trump tore up the JCPOA and maxed sanctions; Biden at least kept diplomacy open. Same with SNAP, Trump gutted it; Biden restored some of it.
I’m not asking you to recognize this scale as legitimate. I’m saying it’s the scale that actually exists and the difference is real.
The absence of your vote doesn’t punish them, it hands the keys to the people who will do worse, faster, to the communities you’re trying to protect. You want to build mutual aid and unions? So do I. But those need time and cover to grow. One administration gives you more of both than the other.
Being morally pure does absolutely nothing for the people lives that get actively worse.
While we do that we need to also work in primaries to get people into Congress that will apply pressure for change because if you look at any actual societal progress we’ve had it’s been civil action in tandem with political pressure.
Fucking banger!
My point stands. D taking your vote and your donation while not doing anything is still less bad than R actively stubbing you with his knife.
LOL. And the good cop giving you a coffee with a gentle tone of voice is better than the bad cop screaming at you. The D is literally watching the guy with the knife and going “whatever” and you think they’re on your side?
as an immigrant, can you guys please not vote for me to get stabbed?
Sorry, the best we can do is vote for people who will stab you or people who won’t stop the people who will stab you. As it turns out, voting isn’t how we avoid getting stabbed. Who knew!?
that’s unfortunate, but in this case, if it were up to me (I know it isn’t), I’d pick the ones who won’t stop the stabbing over the ones who will do the stabbing.
I don’t wanna be selfish though. It’s your choice, not mine. It only impacts me.
R can only stab when if elected. While D holds office, R may get to keep his knife but actually stabbing is a felony. Once R is in office, it is perfectly legal for him to stab and he can thus do much more stubbing. He also gets to direct federal funding toward stabbing.
Voting is what keeps R away out of office. Voting prevents stabbing.
These are some very complicated concepts, so let me draw you a diagram:
Have you ever seen an R go to jail while Ds are in office? Again. The Ds share in the bipartisan consensus to give military surplus to the police, they are fine with cop cities, they are fine with bombing brown people into oblivion, they are fine with couping other governments. They are always an accomplice to the stabbings. Keeping Rs out of office, which you mathematicallly cannot reasonably rely on, will do nothing to stop the stabbings.
The research across decades has shown no reduction of police violence under Democrats and no increase under Republicans. The research has shown corporate profits are higher under Ds than under Rs. Stop believing your bullshit flowchart. It doesn’t match reality.
