Hi,

jlai.lu is the french instance of Lemmy, some user posted this thread 16 days ago : https://jlai.lu/post/11504685, and a flamewar ensued between hexbear and the french, e.g. between happybadger and their administrator here.

Since they didn’t really have any reason to defederate initially, they’re now adamant that they should defederate only because of this discussion, since it proved that every Hexbear&Lemmygrad user is agressive(, as if jlai.lu users weren’t agressive in this discussion as well).
I still find hard to believe that they could defederate on such weak basis, and it does feel like a convenient excuse, but that’s what they’re saying, ask them for confirmation if you don’t believe it either.

They also used a list of post found on /c/MeanwhileOnGrad@sh.itjust.works as if it was representative, but it hardly counts as an argument, what a stupid situation…

They’ve now pinned this post for 12 days, and the defederation with both Hexbear and Lemmygrad seems unavoidable.
I’ve known this for more than a week but didn’t care that much, yet when talking with them, and especially @Camus here, they/he said that they/he would like to talk to you. @Camus is very patient/nice, and you can look at his number of comments/posts to gauge his influence, probably their most active user(, kind of a french ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆).
Well, to be more precise, he informally asked for some excuses from Hexbear, but my post here didn’t reach them, perhaps because of “r*tard” in my username(, r*tardataire designate someone who’s late in french).
However, more than excuses in the name of others, you only have to show him that we’re not aggressive(, if you have some time, it won’t change much in the end), something very easy/natural to prove for >90% of Hexbear users(, and perhaps >70-80% of Lemmygrad 🙂, it does feel a bit more bitter/serious here, not a criticism).

They have some communities that aren’t that far apart from what could be found on Lemmygrad or Hexbear b.t.w., so it can’t really be said that they’d reject us solely based on terrorism apologia, supporting Stalin, etc.(, even if their “leftist” admin is against socialist countries because our capitalists said that they’re authoritarian).
Staying federated with a french instance would be useless for 99% of Hexbear and Lemmygrad, so if you intervene it’d mostly be on the behalf of current/future french users(, it can be nice sometimes to speak your native language without using an alt account), and perhaps also for Lemmygrad and Hexbear’s reputation on jlai.lu.
If you’re french, and/or simply nice, and want a chat with them, feel free to do so directly under the post or with @Camus.
(Kinda worth mentionning in passing that, currently, their top two posts of all time sorted by the most comments are the ones cited above about this defederation)

Also, keep in mind that this defederation is unavoidable though, if it doesn’t happen now it’ll be next year or the year after. As you know, reddit banned ChapoTrapHouse, GenZedong, etc., and we were quickly banned from lemmy.world and others, so we’ll one day be banned from other “centrist” instances such as the french one. Just like we’d also be banned/censored by our governement if our numbers grow enough to disturb/‘be a threat’.
Furthermore, Hexbear took action, and decided to defederate first without even trying to discuss more calmly. So don’t waste too much of your time either(, but please don’t go there unless you intent to speak calmly).

Thanks for reading :) !

  • leftascenter
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    1 day ago

    I’m seeing quite a few misconceptions here and just like to clarify things a bit.

    Jlai.lu is a French speaking instance with a majority of French users but also some Belgian, Canadian and Swiss users. The Luxembourg extension is pretty much the same as Redd.it being Italian, with the exact same pun used.

    The instance is (European scale) left leaning, with a few leftists being very active (anarchists, communists, socialists…) and a majority of libs, most being libs, some left-leaning libs, a few econolibs. Fascists are immediately kicked out when identified, right-wingers usually end downvoted when explaining their views but are allowed. For context fascists are currently 1/3 to 1/2 of voters in France, depending on the cutoff you use, the whole right pushing to fascism for fear of socdem trying to be social.

    An ass launched the idea of defederating hexbear for personal reasons, which turned into a few hexbear users becoming a nuisance on the thread.

    The instance admin opened the idea of defederating here and hexbear as a discussion. I don’t know why lemmygrad was mentioned at all. Hexbear defederated from their side.

    Votes were cast on people reacting to the ass-thread more than real checking as there are very few interaction between the instances.

    Jlailu admin stated that they were thinking about the issue and saw the vote as food for thought but not as a direct decision maker to defederate. Admin is against defederation. At no point is it deemed unavoidable. A few users have tried to point to “problematic” content, usually ending on whatever (didn’t spend the energy cross checking, every instance has shitposts for who digs, admins having a life offline).

    Not much to add except that translations are bound to hurt. In France :

    Communism is seen as either a slur from people not knowing what it is or as an achieved form, but still usually including some actors of transition (Lenin, Sankara) but excluding others (Stalin, Xi). Don’t ask why, that’s not the point, it’s just that’s how french language evolved and the context needed if you start to dig.

    Also, the French socialist party has become right-wing soc-dem (left wing socdem being LFI). The french communist party is… Something, not sure it’s leftist (closest to communist/Marxist/socialist parties would be NPA or luttes ouvrières). So the words really need context.

    • soumerd_retardataire@lemmygrad.mlOP
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      1 day ago

      I’ve nothing to add, but just a quick note because i may have been mistaken, here’s the reasoning :

      At no point is it deemed unavoidable.

      ~Every instance is defederated from hexbear and lemmygrad(, even lemmy.world and the german instance), that’s why i said that.
      Furthermore, the only reversal possible would be a veto from the admins(, didn’t thought about that), because your votes(, which i can’t see,) are certainly overwhelmingly in favor of the defederation in regard to your comments under the thread, and ‘already cast’/‘won’t change’. Since it has been more than 10 days, it felt useless to hope changing the mind of everyone else.
      Honestly, i also think that if the defederation was somehow avoided now it’d still happen next year or the year after, but what do i know obv

      No need to answer, i just felt like adding this precision(, and i haven’t been much on jlai.lu but i remember your username), thanks for taking the time to clarify :) !

    • Rania 🇩🇿@lemmygrad.ml
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      1 day ago

      and a majority of libs, most being libs, some left-leaning libs, a few econolibs. Fascists are immediately kicked out when identified,

      • leftascenter
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        23 hours ago

        jlai.lu is the french instance of Lemmy

        defedrate

        So you have a personal problem with instances not being gated communities as well as a xenophobic issue ?

        • Rania 🇩🇿@lemmygrad.ml
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          23 hours ago

          that’s the most right wing argument I saw lmao, my hatred towards the fr*nch liberals isn’t xenophobic, y’all racialist punks deserve it, last thing I want is a community of racist chauvinists who’ll justify colonialism and genocide.

          • leftascenter
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            23 hours ago

            Wanting to defederate because of a nationality.

            Calling an entire people racialist punks.

            Being called out out and defending as “that’s a right wing argument”

            Calling a community which is against imperialism, nationalism, and racism : “racist chauvinists who’ll justify colonialism and genocide”

            Are you sure you’re all right? I understood this to be a leftist space, are you even in the right community ?

            • soumerd_retardataire@lemmygrad.mlOP
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              19 hours ago

              Cool, now notice the algerian flag next to her username.

              You’re the first to say that « fascists are currently 1/3 to 1/2 of voters in France », but “racialist punks” is too much ?

              France is opposing every country that we’re supporting on Lemmygrad and Hexbear, and your community is not anti-France, so you’re not against imperialism and most of you clearly aren’t against nationalism.

              If you’re saying that you’re not what she denounces, then aren’t we on the same side ? Kinda hard to prove it for the community, but it’s possible to do it for you, and if you really have the same values then there’s no need to fight then.

              Aren’t you ashamed of the françafrique, of our many wars, of our neocolonialism, of our decolonial wars, of our centuries of genocide, of the lamentable state of our propaganda, etc. ?
              She’s not “racist”, since she doesn’t hate me for being french(, even if it’s not a quality), but she hates the ideology of our country, as i do, and even more we hate the actions of our government, as you’ll claim to do as well. And it’s not because we hate France but because we love humanity/‘other countries’. Try to argue on this basis in our medias it’ll be impossible.

              • leftascenter
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                19 hours ago

                On my app, I don’t see the flag. But i don’t give a shit about flags in the first place. Mixing in an agressive manner people, countries and Lemmy communities is plain stupid. And flag wavers deserve the cold shoulder in my book, whatever flags they wave.

                As for the rest of your diatribe, I don’t know of a single country that can be proud of its past. Countries are shit. And mixing nations / people / countries is a shit xenophobic attitude.

                She’s not “racist”, since she doesn’t hate me for being french

                Yeah cool. Someone states a French speaking community should be defederated on the basis of being French, starts insulting the people but they’re not xenophobic, they have a French friend. That line of argumentation is the worst you could do.

                • soumerd_retardataire@lemmygrad.mlOP
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                  19 hours ago

                  Correction : Someone states a French speaking community should be defederated on the basis of being pro-French

                  If you really hate the current actions of France then we have the same “values”/beliefs/ideology

                  An example : Most people here would have probably appreciated some of the warnings emitted from our president towards Israel(, even if, let’s be honest we’re still far from it), that’s only an example, they’re against our actions and what we’re ending up representing.
                  “It’s a rare french win” isn’t heard very often around here.

                  • leftascenter
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                    18 hours ago

                    Correction : Someone states a French speaking community should be defederated on the basis of being pro-French

                    This is not what was posted or claimed.

                    If you really hate the current actions of France then we have the same “values”/beliefs/ideology

                    Define the actions of France. Is that of the French government? Is that of the French people? If it is of the French people considering there is basically a third econoLibs, a third racist and a third normal people in France at the moment, which third are you referring to? When considering the neoliberals, are you splitting the ones who are really neoliberals and the ones who just had neoliberal propaganda dumped onto them?

                    I personally despise what the French government is up to, the country’s current constitution and its authoritarian uses. But French people / France is also Solidaires/SUD, bars like le saint sauveur in Paris (historic antifa bar)… People are not a stable mix, and you can take the most hideous imperialistic regime and still find decent people in the country. Rejection of people or communities based on prejudice and labelling is scaringly close to racism.

                  • leftascenter
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                    20 hours ago

                    I leant the liberal was added to the discussion once I started pointing out the xenophobic status of the French thing.

                • Rania 🇩🇿@lemmygrad.ml
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                  23 hours ago

                  the other user of you here called us monkeys who shit in their hands, and called us children, I don’t need to spell anything out crakkker

                  • leftascenter
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                    20 hours ago

                    Your point being? Trying to prove them right with your attitude.?