Hi,
jlai.lu is the french instance of Lemmy, some user posted this thread 16 days ago : https://jlai.lu/post/11504685, and a flamewar ensued between hexbear and the french, e.g. between happybadger and their administrator here.
Since they didn’t really have any reason to defederate initially, they’re now adamant that they should defederate only because of this discussion, since it proved that every Hexbear&Lemmygrad user is agressive(, as if jlai.lu users weren’t agressive in this discussion as well).
I still find hard to believe that they could defederate on such weak basis, and it does feel like a convenient excuse, but that’s what they’re saying, ask them for confirmation if you don’t believe it either.
They also used a list of post found on /c/MeanwhileOnGrad@sh.itjust.works as if it was representative, but it hardly counts as an argument, what a stupid situation…
They’ve now pinned this post for 12 days, and the defederation with both Hexbear and Lemmygrad seems unavoidable.
I’ve known this for more than a week but didn’t care that much, yet when talking with them, and especially @Camus here, they/he said that they/he would like to talk to you. @Camus is very patient/nice, and you can look at his number of comments/posts to gauge his influence, probably their most active user(, kind of a french ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆).
Well, to be more precise, he informally asked for some excuses from Hexbear, but my post here didn’t reach them, perhaps because of “r*tard” in my username(, r*tardataire designate someone who’s late in french).
However, more than excuses in the name of others, you only have to show him that we’re not aggressive(, if you have some time, it won’t change much in the end), something very easy/natural to prove for >90% of Hexbear users(, and perhaps >70-80% of Lemmygrad 🙂, it does feel a bit more bitter/serious here, not a criticism).
They have some communities that aren’t that far apart from what could be found on Lemmygrad or Hexbear b.t.w., so it can’t really be said that they’d reject us solely based on terrorism apologia, supporting Stalin, etc.(, even if their “leftist” admin is against socialist countries because our capitalists said that they’re authoritarian).
Staying federated with a french instance would be useless for 99% of Hexbear and Lemmygrad, so if you intervene it’d mostly be on the behalf of current/future french users(, it can be nice sometimes to speak your native language without using an alt account), and perhaps also for Lemmygrad and Hexbear’s reputation on jlai.lu.
If you’re french, and/or simply nice, and want a chat with them, feel free to do so directly under the post or with @Camus.
(Kinda worth mentionning in passing that, currently, their top two posts of all time sorted by the most comments are the ones cited above about this defederation)
Also, keep in mind that this defederation is unavoidable though, if it doesn’t happen now it’ll be next year or the year after. As you know, reddit banned ChapoTrapHouse, GenZedong, etc., and we were quickly banned from lemmy.world and others, so we’ll one day be banned from other “centrist” instances such as the french one. Just like we’d also be banned/censored by our governement if our numbers grow enough to disturb/‘be a threat’.
Furthermore, Hexbear took action, and decided to defederate first without even trying to discuss more calmly. So don’t waste too much of your time either(, but please don’t go there unless you intent to speak calmly).
Thanks for reading :) !
So you have a personal problem with instances not being gated communities as well as a xenophobic issue ?
that’s the most right wing argument I saw lmao, my hatred towards the fr*nch liberals isn’t xenophobic, y’all racialist punks deserve it, last thing I want is a community of racist chauvinists who’ll justify colonialism and genocide.
Wanting to defederate because of a nationality.
Calling an entire people racialist punks.
Being called out out and defending as “that’s a right wing argument”
Calling a community which is against imperialism, nationalism, and racism : “racist chauvinists who’ll justify colonialism and genocide”
Are you sure you’re all right? I understood this to be a leftist space, are you even in the right community ?
Cool, now notice the algerian flag next to her username.
You’re the first to say that « fascists are currently 1/3 to 1/2 of voters in France », but “racialist punks” is too much ?
France is opposing every country that we’re supporting on Lemmygrad and Hexbear, and your community is not anti-France, so you’re not against imperialism and most of you clearly aren’t against nationalism.
If you’re saying that you’re not what she denounces, then aren’t we on the same side ? Kinda hard to prove it for the community, but it’s possible to do it for you, and if you really have the same values then there’s no need to fight then.
Aren’t you ashamed of the françafrique, of our many wars, of our neocolonialism, of our decolonial wars, of our centuries of genocide, of the lamentable state of our propaganda, etc. ?
She’s not “racist”, since she doesn’t hate me for being french(, even if it’s not a quality), but she hates the ideology of our country, as i do, and even more we hate the actions of our government, as you’ll claim to do as well. And it’s not because we hate France but because we love humanity/‘other countries’. Try to argue on this basis in our medias it’ll be impossible.
On my app, I don’t see the flag. But i don’t give a shit about flags in the first place. Mixing in an agressive manner people, countries and Lemmy communities is plain stupid. And flag wavers deserve the cold shoulder in my book, whatever flags they wave.
As for the rest of your diatribe, I don’t know of a single country that can be proud of its past. Countries are shit. And mixing nations / people / countries is a shit xenophobic attitude.
Yeah cool. Someone states a French speaking community should be defederated on the basis of being French, starts insulting the people but they’re not xenophobic, they have a French friend. That line of argumentation is the worst you could do.
Correction : Someone states a French speaking community should be defederated on the basis of being pro-French
If you really hate the current actions of France then we have the same “values”/beliefs/ideology
An example : Most people here would have probably appreciated some of the warnings emitted from our president towards Israel(, even if, let’s be honest we’re still far from it), that’s only an example, they’re against our actions and what we’re ending up representing.
“It’s a rare french win” isn’t heard very often around here.
This is not what was posted or claimed.
Define the actions of France. Is that of the French government? Is that of the French people? If it is of the French people considering there is basically a third econoLibs, a third racist and a third normal people in France at the moment, which third are you referring to? When considering the neoliberals, are you splitting the ones who are really neoliberals and the ones who just had neoliberal propaganda dumped onto them?
I personally despise what the French government is up to, the country’s current constitution and its authoritarian uses. But French people / France is also Solidaires/SUD, bars like le saint sauveur in Paris (historic antifa bar)… People are not a stable mix, and you can take the most hideous imperialistic regime and still find decent people in the country. Rejection of people or communities based on prejudice and labelling is scaringly close to racism.
That’s how i’m understanding it since i signed up here on Lemmygrad, and not only for the fr*nch, but for amerikkans and every westerner as well.
Many people here are american and are rightfully criticizing our imperialism, it’s not xenophobism towards themselves.
As for the rest of your (pertinent )answer i have a simple question that may help me in understanding your position(, or you to understand mine) : If Mélenchon, Poutou, Arthaud, …, come into power and somehow miraculously manages to change the course of France(, one could dream). Wouldn’t Lemmygrad users say that France is awesome now ? Or would they need to say that “some french people are awesome” ?
You may be right to want to put some nuances in this, but it’s an understandable shortcut, you define France by its government, medias, and the propaganda believed by the overwhelming majority of its population, seems like a fair shortcut, and if you’re a french anti-imperialist, then be welcomed here, but you’re an exception in France(, and knows it).
Yes and no. You don’t define a Lemmy community or a group of people like that. You may at best define a country, but that wasn’t what I pointed out, nor is it what was stated.
No. That’s the whole point. Because as soon as that line of thought is cautioned, you only need a drop of social or economic domination to create a racist trend.
You’re forgetting the ‘liberal’ of ‘fr*nch liberals’.
Liberal was added afterwards.
The comment has not been edited.
I leant the liberal was added to the discussion once I started pointing out the xenophobic status of the French thing.
I don’t know about that. To admit to being french is to admit to being liberal at best. The two can’t be separated. Same as any imperialist nationality. If liberal was added to later comments, it’s because clarification was clearly needed because readers weren’t understanding what it means to be French and what it means to criticise the abstract ‘French’.
I wouldn’t generally want to be associated with an imperialist regime. Nationality is not ethnicity or race. It’s an ideological choice. For Anglo-European nations, it’s a damning choice. It’s a claim that someone is in this group, not that one. Claiming and defending being ‘French’ perpetuates what Fanon called the compartments of the colonial world.
Those who take offence at a rejection of ‘French’, ‘German’, ‘British’, ‘Australian’, etc, need to ask themselves what it is they are claiming allegiance to. Once you’ve decolonised and abolished the imperialism of imperialist nations, what remains? The witty ‘defederate’ is like the phrase, ‘French? Not even once’. It’s not a general rejection of the people. It’s a rejection of what France stands for.
Born in a country = be liberal at best.
Would the rest of your post be different I would classify this as a top racism.
Which is totally the opposite of what happened. Someone calls out an instance for being French and I just pointed that out as being xenophobic. Now your whole argumentations would tend to prove that I was correct in the first place and that judging people for being born somewhere is being xenophobic.
Those who confuse the rejection of a country with the rejection of the people living in that country need to ask themselves what it is they are claiming allegiance to.
boho fucking crying ass cracker frenchie punk
No, you’re it! 🤣
the other user of you here called us monkeys who shit in their hands, and called us children, I don’t need to spell anything out crakkker
Your point being? Trying to prove them right with your attitude.?
you realise how racist it looks to tell me (an African) that my attitude proves that I’m a monkey? you are fascist liberals, as left as Degaulle.