hexbear.net, il faut qu'on en parle. - jlai.lu
jlai.lu
Je suis le seul qui a un problème avec cette instance? Il se sont fédérés récemment à la plupart des grosses instances, et à chaque fois que je vois leur commentaires sur certains fils de lemmy.ml [http://lemmy.ml] (par exemple), ça me semble assez probable qu’ils sont liés au PCC. https://jlai.lu/post/316000 [https://jlai.lu/post/316000] un bel exemple, le niveau des commentaires fait passer les MAGAtard pour des philosophes. Alors le répondre à leur commentaires agressifs avec des citations de Liberty Prime une fois la tentative d’argumentaire passée, c’est marrant 5 minutes, mais je trouve ça inquiétant à force. Qu’en pensez vous ? Dé-fédération ou on laisse passer ? Edit : Voici ce que lemmy.world en pensent, ils les ont bloqués avant même la fédération https://jlai.lu/post/200336?scrollToComments=true [https://jlai.lu/post/200336?scrollToComments=true] A mon avis il faut suivre cet avis.

L’année dernière le sujet a été abordés par @AlexisFR@jlai.lu et je souhaite relancé l’idée de dé-fédérer de cette instance.

Je navigue depuis quelque temps sans bloquer la moindre instances question de simuler un peu l’expérience de quelqu’un qui rejoint le fediverse via l’instance jlai.lu.

Les posts qui apparaissent dans le fil et le comportement de la plupart des usagers de cette instance pollue tout simplement l’expérience Lemmy.

Même sans parler de possible liens avec CCP, Kremlin etc… je pense que, à mon humble avis, leur comportement et leur façons de brigader et de diffamer une opinion qui ne diverge que d’à peine d’un poil de leur courant de penser, va sincèrement à l’encontre de l’état d’esprit de notre communauté sur cette instance.

Je me suis opposé sans vraiment me prononcer l’année dernière à une dé-fédération (étant donné qu’ils ne sont pas francophone et que j’aime bien le drama inter-instances de temps temps) mais leurs prises de positions en permanence ahurissantes et (en pesant mes mots au maximum) d’une flagrante dissonance cognitive je dois dire que trop c’est trop.

Je pense sincèrement que malgré le fait nos intéractions soit assez minimes avec cette instance je pense que sur le long terme leur influence est nocive et que, dans l’idée de garder une certaines sérénité pour les personnes et futures personnes qui utiliseront cette instance, qu’il y ai une dé-fédération de cette instance de la notre.

  • MarxMadness@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
    23·
    2 months ago

    Fuck all the way off. You’re making up shit and getting mad at it because you can’t address my actual point.

    I said:

    Obviously there is room for criticizing China here – credible allegations of torture, ill-treatment, and discrimination should be taken seriously and stopped if those allegations are substantiated.

    The point is that allegations about mistreating prisoners =/= concrete evidence of genocide.

    • anansiMA
      51·
      2 months ago

      No, I’m pointing out that in the report you’ve decided to forget that it was speaking about the systemic way of treating the local muslim population as subpar humans and breaching their fundamental freedoms on a daily basis, while, and once again you “forgot” to respond to it, leading a program of culture erasure since the 50’s and the Xinjiang independence was in the name of “stability” and “war on terror” since the 90’s, using official language change, customs erasure and legislation, while also limiting far more the reproduction rights of the Uyghurs compared to the Hans settlers.

      This shit is known, once again, since the 50’s, and was documented and reported far before China was considered an economical threat or even a developing nation. Once again, it was such a point of contention between the USSR and the CCP that it lead to multiple wars in the region, documented by the chinese, the ussr, and “the west”. At this point, this is willful ignorance.

      You consistently “forgetting” about the history of the region, minimizing the human rights violation when it’s made by bootwearers with a red flag, and turning millions in “re-education” camps as “just a few individual acts of torture on prisoners”, just shows that you just don’t give a fuck and that you’re just here for the contrarian aesthetic. The simple fact that the UN, which is in big part an organization used to justify and excuse colonialism has to call this shit “crime against humanity” is telling. The meekest of all international organisation cannot even excuse this without it looking like too much bootlicking.

      You’d be born 10 years earlier, you would have been radicalized on 4chan instead and would be “ironically” shitposting about holocaust denial and saying shit like “no bro I swear this wasn’t a genocide, Hitler wanted to build a jewish paradise on Madagascar, the camps were just temporary work camps and they had to let jews die because the Allies broke the supply lines”. You’d be using the same rhetoric to minimize the actions of yet another authoritarian regime dabbling in ethnic cleansing, but since today being a nazi is too mainstream, the new flavor of boot to lick is chinese.

      I’m old enough to remember irl tankies, and you’re still all the same and will rather side with fascists whenever your limited view of what the left and even communism is is challenged.

      You’re an authoritarian LARPing as a leftist.

      • MarxMadness@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
        12·
        2 months ago

        You keep rambling on source-free while not addressing anything I said.

        This is how you “base your worldview on international organizations” yet wind up ignoring those organizations when they don’t back up your atrocity propaganda.

        • anansiMA
          41·
          2 months ago

          You keep rambling on source-free while not addressing anything I said.

          You not getting the point is not me not addressing what you said. Me not giving an history lesson on the Xinjiang region history to you when you can find accounts from all sides online for free, is not rambling, it’s just not engaging with the sealioning of the latest brand of redfash.

          This is how you “base your worldview on international organizations” yet wind up ignoring those organizations when they don’t back up your atrocity propaganda.

          No, they do. One of them “only” speaks of crime against humanity so it’s the one you decided represented the truth. I’m sure you’re using the same logic with Palestine and Israel, right?

          You can just stop here with the common auth rhetoric, you’re a bootlicker, coming from a bootlicker instance, that has erected double standards as an olympic level sport. Anything that goes against your fairy tale must be propaganda, everything that agrees with it is truth. Any contradictor is a counter-revolutionary/liberal/fascist, and I swear after this last purge we’ll achieve communism bro.

          No I swear bro, this is not genocide if it does not come from the genocide region in France, otherwise it’s just sparkling crime against humanity.

          That’s literally the hasbara playbook to deny genociding the palestinians lol. If it weren’t so sad, it would be funny.

          • MarxMadness@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
            13·
            2 months ago

            One of them “only” speaks of crime against humanity so it’s the one you decided represented the truth.

            I asked you why you are right and the U.N. is wrong. You’ve refused to answer that. You’ve also refused to provide any examples of a reputable international organization that disagrees with the U.N.

            All you’ve done is lie about what the U.N. report says, pretend you don’t understand the difference between genocide and mistreatment of prisoners, and hit your “bootlicker” and “red fash” quotas for the day.

            • anansiMA
              51·
              2 months ago

              I asked you why you are right and the U.N. is wrong. You’ve refused to answer that.

              No, I’ve answered why a commission that was looking at only part of the situation could not, by design, conclude to anything else that crime against humanity. That’s why I’ve added the historical element, that you still keep ignoring, for the third time, when it’s the main argument in the first place.

              You’ve also refused to provide any examples of a reputable international organization that disagrees with the U.N.

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Uyghurs_in_China#Genocide

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Uyghurs_in_China#Ethnocide_or_cultural_genocide

              This is what I refer to “wilful ignorance”.

              Could also check the ICIJ if you’d like independent orgs.

              All you’ve done is lie about what the U.N. report says

              No, what I did was just pointing out that you were lying by minimizing the actual content of this report, and once I made that obvious, resorted to legalism.

              “This has included far-reaching, arbitrary and discriminatory restrictions on human rights and fundamental freedoms, in violation of international laws and standards”, including restrictions on religious freedom and the rights to privacy and movement.

              Furthermore, the report said that Chinese Government policies in the region have “transcended borders”, separating families, “severing” contacts, producing “patterns of intimidations and threats” against the wider Uyghur diaspora who have spoken out about conditions at home.

              Let’s add to that the settlement colonialism and all the other shit I’ve listed previously, and tell me how it’s not an attempt to erase Uyghurs identity and people.

              pretend you don’t understand the difference between genocide and mistreatment of prisoners

              I do. I guess the holocaust was not a genocide because they were also all rounded up in camps as prisoners. That’s legalism that only libshit used to use.

              Can you tell me how the following fits the category of “mistreatment of prisoners” more than “genocide” maybe?

              When I see this kind of shit happening in Gaza, I call it a genocide, even before the oct. 7th events. Same in Armenia, Myanmar, Cambodia, Chechenia or whatever else other country doing this shit because I don’t use selective acceptance of genocide.

              I’m sure you won’t answer to this following the argumentative playbook of an authoritarian troll that will most likely dismiss any provided source as western propaganda, or with an argumentative mille-feuilles full of the stupidest takes I’ve seen.

              • MarxMadness@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
                13·
                2 months ago

                why a commission that was looking at only part of the situation could not, by design, conclude to anything else that crime against humanity.

                If there had been a genocide in Xinjiang, absolutely nothing would have stopped the U.N. from saying so. In its report on Gaza, the U.N. says Israel is “committing war crimes and the crime against humanity of extermination.” It cites the Genocide Convention and calls on Israel to obey the orders of the ICJ to stop breaking the Genocide Convention, i.e., to stop committing genocide.

                This is what you see when there actually is a genocide, as opposed to atrocity propaganda.

                Could also check the ICIJ if you’d like independent orgs.

                I’m not your secretary. If you have something other than a wiki link (that quotes noted crank Adrian Zenz lmao), let’s see it.

                Can you tell me how the following fits the category of “mistreatment of prisoners” more than “genocide” maybe?

                Xinhua said You expressed the hope “that people in religious circles can inherit and carry forward the fine traditions to love the motherland and their faith, lead religious believers to follow the right faith and abide by the law and contribute to the healthy development of Islam”.

                I ask for reputable international organizations that support your argument, you ignore that and spam a bunch of news articles. Most of those articles don’t seem to describe anything like genocide, anyway, setting aside the vast difference between “someone published an article” and “the U.N. sent investigators and here is what they found.” The article I quoted above is just a press release from China, for example – no reporting.

                Who am I kidding, you aren’t even reading the shit you’re linking to.

                I’m sure you won’t answer to this

                What do you think is the point of whining and crying and shitting yourself like this 100 comments deep. Pathetic.

                • anansiMA
                  51·
                  2 months ago

                  I’m sure you won’t answer to this following the argumentative playbook of an authoritarian troll that will most likely dismiss any provided source as western propaganda, or with an argumentative mille-feuilles full of the stupidest takes I’ve seen.

                  So, as expected.

        • SnoopyFrançais
          41·
          2 months ago

          Aren’t you rambling ?

          • Weren’t you talking about nuking Paris or supporting this idea ? What make you different from genocidal maniak as Netayahou ? Or Macron ?
          • Why are you wasting your time with blatant obivious nazis ? Are you trying to join us and that’s why you don’t want to defederate ? So you like us ?
            • Snoopy
              41·
              2 months ago

              Probably, however currently, you are seating on the same table as all people who upvoted here.

              https://kbin.earth/m/meta@jlai.lu/t/570709/De-federation-de-hexbear/comment/3267199/favourites

              As happybagger said :

              If 12 people are seated at a table with 1 fascist, tell me how many fascists are seated at that table.

              As you upvoted, you probably agreed with this point. What make you different from the rest of them ?

              • MarxMadness@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
                12·
                2 months ago

                Get the fuck out of here

                You confused me for someone else. An understandable mistake, but instead of simply acknowledging it or moving on you’re now harassing me over shit I never said or even commented on.

                Once again, get the fuck out of here