- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- europe@hexbear.net
- europe@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- europe@hexbear.net
- europe@lemmy.ml
French President Emmanuel Macron has unveiled his new government almost three months after a snap general election delivered a hung parliament.
The long-awaited new line up, led by Prime Minister Michel Barnier, marks a decisive shift to the right, even though a left-wing alliance won most parliamentary seats.
It comes as the European Union puts France on notice over its spiralling debt, which now far exceeds EU rules.
Among those gaining a position in the new cabinet is Bruno Retailleau, a key member of the conservative Republicans Party founded by former president Nicolas Sarkozy.
Just one left-wing politician was given a post in the cabinet, independent Didier Migaud, who was appointed as justice minister.
France’s public-sector deficit is projected to reach around 5.6% of GDP this year and go over 6% in 2025. The EU has a 3% limit on deficits.
Michel Barnier, a veteran conservative, was named as Macron’s prime minister earlier this month.
Members of the left-wing alliance, the New Popular Front (NFP) have threatened a no-confidence motion in the new government.
Far-left leader Jean-Luc Mélenchon called for the new government to “be got rid of” as soon as possible.
On Saturday, before the cabinet announcement, thousands of left-wing supporters demonstrated in Paris against the incoming government, arguing that the left’s performance in the election was not taken into consideration.
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Thank you France for finally putting to bed the myth that western democracy works and the only problem is that people just have to vote harder.
I’ve certainly not seen someone wipe his ass with the people’s vote quicker than this guy.
If anything it shows that authoritarians will choose what keeps them in power rather than what’s best for the people. The left didn’t get the majority, it was roughly a 3 way split between the left, center-right and far-right. The government would’ve been with the left and center-right or center-right and far-right. The former would’ve been better because it would’ve represented a bigger portion of the voters but the latter was also viable from the perspective of democracy.
However the choice was largely up to Macron (and his party) and he’s definitely more autocratic than democratic. His decision is what ultimately threw the left under the bus.
Tldr: Democracy is fine, authoritarianism is the issue.
What is shows is that western implementation of the concept of democracy is such that it does not represent the interests of the working majority. Western democracies are class dictatorships where the capital owning class makes the decisions and dictates to the workers. This is precisely what we’re seeing happening in France right now.
Meanwhile, authoritarianism is a largely meaningless term. Every government holds authority by virtue of having a monopoly on legalized violence. What actually matters is whom the government is accountable to. When the working majority has no tangible leverage then their voice can be easily ignored. That’s why Macron is able to do what he is doing. The issue is with the way the system is implemented.
TLDR: democracy is fine, western implementation of the concept is not
What is shows is that western implementation of the concept of democracy is such that it does not represent the interests of the working majority. Western democracies are class dictatorships where the capital owning class makes the decisions and dictates to the workers. This is precisely what we’re seeing happening in France right now.
You want to expand on that? Considering Ensemble and National Rally (with its far right allies) make up 301 seats out of the 577 seats (and for the lazy, 289 is the minimum to have the majority). If Ensemble had allied with NFP they’d have 339 seats which is more than with the far-right, but not significantly more. Had the left “won” I don’t see how you couldn’t make the same argument saying it’s bullshit.
Meanwhile, authoritarianism is a largely meaningless term. Every government holds authority by virtue of having a monopoly on legalized violence. What actually matters is whom the government is accountable to. When the working majority has no tangible leverage then their voice can be easily ignored. That’s why Macron is able to do what he is doing. The issue is with the way the system is implemented.
Define tangible leverage.
TLDR: democracy is fine, western implementation of the concept is not
Interesting to see where this non-western fine democracy exists.
You want to expand on that?
I’m not sure what you want me to expand on specifically. It’s obvious that the government in France does not represent the interests of the public. This is why France has constant public unrest incidentally.
Define tangible leverage.
Ability to hold the government to account for their actions. The regular people have no practical way to exercise influence over the government. Simply being able to vote is meaningless as the election clearly showed.
Interesting to see where this non-western fine democracy exists.
Two obvious examples for you.
China
- https://www.newsweek.com/most-china-call-their-nation-democracy-most-us-say-america-isnt-1711176
- https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2021/0218/Vilified-abroad-popular-at-home-China-s-Communist-Party-at-100
- https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-06-26/which-nations-are-democracies-some-citizens-might-disagree
- https://web.archive.org/web/20230511041927/https://6389062.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/6389062/Canva images/Democracy Perception Index 2023.pdf
- https://www.tbsnews.net/world/china-more-democratic-america-say-people-98686
- https://web.archive.org/web/20201229132410/https://en.news-front.info/2020/06/27/studies-have-shown-that-china-is-more-democratic-than-the-united-states-russia-is-nearby-and-ukraine-is-at-the-bottom/
Cuba
So public unrest is an indication that the government doesn’t represent the interest of the public? Seems like your examples of fine democracy don’t represent the interest of the public either, protests on the rise in China and protests in Cuba.
Where are their tangible benefits that you defined so vaguely you might as well have not defined them at all? Please specifics this time, not this vague BS.
So public unrest is an indication that the government doesn’t represent the interest of the public?
Nah, it’s public unrest coupled with continuously declining living conditions and the government ignoring the demands from the people that shows the government isn’t working in the interest of the public.
Where are their tangible benefits that you defined so vaguely you might as well have not defined them at all? Please specifics this time, not this vague BS.
Meanwhile, here are some tangible benefits for you to chew on.
The real (inflation-adjusted) incomes of the poorest half of the Chinese population increased by more than four hundred percent from 1978 to 2015, while real incomes of the poorest half of the US population actually declined during the same time period. https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w23119/w23119.pdf
From 1978 to 2000, the number of people in China living on under $1/day fell by 300 million, reversing a global trend of rising poverty that had lasted half a century (i.e. if China were excluded, the world’s total poverty population would have risen) https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/China’s-Economic-Growth-and-Poverty-Reduction-Angang-Linlin/c883fc7496aa1b920b05dc2546b880f54b9c77a4
From 2010 to 2019 (the most recent period for which uninterrupted data is available), the income of the poorest 20% in China increased even as a share of total income. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.DST.FRST.20?end=2019&locations=CN&start=2008
By the end of 2020, extreme poverty, defined as living on under a threshold of around $2 per day, had been eliminated in China. According to the World Bank, the Chinese government had spent $700 billion on poverty alleviation since 2014. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/31/world/asia/china-poverty-xi-jinping.html
90% of families in the country own their home giving China one of the highest home ownership rates in the world. What’s more is that 80% of these homes are owned outright, without mortgages or any other leans. https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2016/03/30/how-people-in-china-afford-their-outrageously-expensive-homes
China used more concrete in 3 years than US in all of 20th century https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2014/12/05/china-used-more-concrete-in-3-years-than-the-u-s-used-in-the-entire-20th-century-infographic/
China also built 27,000km of high speed rail in a decade https://www.railjournal.com/passenger/high-speed/ten-years-27000km-china-celebrates-a-decade-of-high-speed/
This is what life in a country with a government that represents the interests of the people looks like.
Nice to see how little you’re paying attention.
Nah, it’s public unrest coupled with continuously declining living conditions and the government ignoring the demands from the people that shows the government isn’t working in the interest of the public.
The articles I linked both said declining living conditions are the reason of protests. When it comes to Cuba the government suppressed the unrest with force. China protests have worsened in the last year. Looking at how fast you responded you probably didn’t even open the links. Nevertheless, your criticism applies to those countries as well
And I accidentally misspelled tangible leverage. I never meant to say tangible benefits and I think context-wise it should’ve been obvious I meant the term you originally brought up. But you only skimmed my comment for keywords so you could dump your prepared copy paste because there’s no way you found those examples with sources within 6 minutes, you had those ready to throw out.
I guess you’re just a mouthpiece afterall.
Cut a Liberal and a Fascist bleeds
Cut an anticommunist and an anticommunist bleeds?
Remember a bunch of years ago when the news were all about cheering this guy for having defeat his fascist opponent?
Macron really going out of his way to fuck over the French people, eh? Calls snap elections right after the far right wins big in eu elections, then refuses to follow the will of the people when said election backfires.
Part of my thinks the left will be better off in opposition, though.
Calls snap elections right after the far right wins big in eu elections
That’s the only reason they did that lmao. They were hoping the far-right would win, and ignored the results because they didn’t.
During 2022 the French left was saying “A vote for Macron in 2022 is a vote for Le Pen in 2027”.
They appear to be right on schedule.
Macron took his mask off and never put it back on.
Bit weird that the left have won the elections, yet the president gets to decide how the government is formed…
It’s not that rare in Europe actually, for example Poland have very similar government forming procedure, and guess what, after most recent elections Polish president Duda tried to do identical maneuver, but unlike in France the elections weren’t this close so he didn’t really tried to do de-facto coup like Macron, just mostly maneuvered to exhaust all his time-delaying procedures to give his party colleagues from ending term time to jump the ship safely, destroy the compromising documents (literally, the central security service ABW bought lots of large paper shredders right after elections)
France has a weird hybrid Presidential/Parliamentary system that no other country has and is really confusing.
Most other countries either have a diminished President whose only real duty is making sure there is a Prime Minister that has a mandate to lead or an empowered President that has a democratic mandate and has more leeway to run the government’s administration.
That is confusing, indeed.
It is, but that’s also a defining feature of the presidential system as opposed to the parliamentary system.
I think it is designed this way since France is pretty pro Big Government
Far-left leader Jean-Luc Mélenchon
Mélenchon. Far-left. Come on!
At best left, not remotely far left.
Exactly
what was the quote about how elections cannot be allowed to alter economic policy?
Don’t mind me. I’m jist digging through my post history to give a big fat “I told you so” to all the liberals on Lemmy.
Bold to think they won’t move the goal posts again
I’m hoping the Communists in France have been reading their Lenin. I can’t think of a better gift Macron could have given the communists. “Left-Wing” Communism, an Infantile Disorder
Chapter 9: “Left-Wing” Communism in Great Britian
Lloyd GeorgeMacron entered into a polemic… with those Liberals who want, not a coalition with the Conservatives, but closer relations with theLabour PartyNew Popular Front (NPF)…Lloyd GeorgeMacron argued that a coalition—and a close coalition at that—between the Liberals and the Conservatives was essential, otherwise there might be a victory for theLabour PartyNPF whichLloyd GeorgeMacron prefers to call “Socialist” … “In Germany it was called socialism, and in Russia it is called Bolshevism,” he went on to say. To Liberals this is unacceptable on principle,Lloyd GeorgeMacron explained, because they stand in principle for private property. “Civilisation is in jeopardy,” the speaker declared, and consequently Liberals and Conservatives must unite. . . .… Thus the liberal bourgeoisie are abandoning the historical system of “two parties” (of exploiters), which has been hallowed by centuries of experience and has been extremely advantageous to the exploiters, and consider it necessary for these two parties to join forces against the
Labour PartyNPF.…
At present,BritishFrench Communists very often find it hard even to approach the masses, and even to get a hearing from them. If I come out as a Communist and call upon them to vote forHendersonCastets and Mélenchon and againstLloyd GeorgeMacron and Le Pen they will certainly give me a hearing. And I shall be able to explain in a popular manner, not only why the Soviets are better than a parliament and why the dictatorship of the proletariat is better than the dictatorship ofChurchillBarnier and Le Pen (disguised with the signboard of bourgeois “democracy”), but also that, with my vote, I want to supportHendersonCastets and the NPF in the same way as the rope supports a hanged man—that the impending establishment of a government of theHendersonsCastets will prove that I am right, will bring the masses over to my side, and will hasten the political death of theHendersonsCastetses and theSnowdensMélenchons just as was the case with their kindred spirits in Russia and Germany.…
This has stripped more and more active and engaged and hopeful people of their illusions about bourgeois democracy than even bernie-clinton 2016 nonsense. Which even that created a lot of communists; and that was relatively milquetoast compared to this huge national mobilization and upswell and coalition movement which was big enough to make international headlines no less. If the French communists have been reading their Lenin and agitating on this stuff even before it happened (as you said, very predictable) then the communist movement has gained 10x more than any eurosocialist thinks “the left” lost.Link back any hilarious replies
So…does France go apeshit, or are they all revolutioned out?
To be fair we’re pretty tired and hopeless, most people are apathetic now because nothing seems to be working.
Strikes and demonstrations are vilified by the media, the left is not united enough to hit as hard as they should, the president is a child throwing tantrums to have it the way he wants, the media is owned by very few people so they control the narrative, etc.
It honestly feels hopeless, most people want change, but to a lot of people the demonising of the left has worked and the far right seems to be a reasonable option now.
It’s gonna get a lot worse before it gets better unfortunately…
Sounds a bit like the US when you describe it that way…
I’d say we’re still far from it, but that’s definitely where we’re headed full steam
I hope you can avoid it because it’s shit. 🙃
because nothing seems to be working.
This is an inspiring sign for communists. No reason for pessimism. A large mobilization of masses of engaged politically active workers in a state where the masses still largely believe in parliamentarism; who formed sprawling coalitions into a large left national upswelling that also made international headlines, now have themselves and onlookers been shown, better than any propaganda alone ever could, why bourgeois liberal democracy is an impediment to progress rather than a channel for it; and that the Liberals will side with the fascists to keep the left from getting an inch. This has made more communists than you probably realize. Especially if your communists have been reading their Lenin and agitating on this point, which probably a lot of workers didn’t even need much agitation to expect this because of the state of things and how just… unbearably awful Macron is in every way
VI Lenin: LWC Chapter 9: “Left-Wing” Communism in Great Britian
Lloyd GeorgeMacron entered into a polemic… with those Liberals who want, not a coalition with the Conservatives, but closer relations with theLabour PartyNew Popular Front (NPF)…Lloyd GeorgeMacron argued that a coalition—and a close coalition at that—between the Liberals and the Conservatives was essential, otherwise there might be a victory for theLabour PartyNPF whichLloyd GeorgeMacron prefers to call “Socialist” … “In Germany it was called socialism, and in Russia it is called Bolshevism,” he went on to say. To Liberals this is unacceptable on principle,Lloyd GeorgeMacron explained, because they stand in principle for private property. “Civilisation is in jeopardy,” the speaker declared, and consequently Liberals and Conservatives must unite. . . .… Thus the liberal bourgeoisie are abandoning the historical system of “two parties” (of exploiters), which has been hallowed by centuries of experience and has been extremely advantageous to the exploiters, and consider it necessary for these two parties to join forces against the
Labour PartyNPF.…
At present,BritishFrench Communists very often find it hard even to approach the masses, and even to get a hearing from them. If I come out as a Communist and call upon them to vote forHendersonCastets and Mélenchon and againstLloyd GeorgeMacron and Le Pen they will certainly give me a hearing. And I shall be able to explain in a popular manner, not only why the Soviets are better than a parliament and why the dictatorship of the proletariat is better than the dictatorship ofChurchillBarnier and Le Pen (disguised with the signboard of bourgeois “democracy”), but also that, with my vote, I want to supportHendersonCastets and the NPF in the same way as the rope supports a hanged man—that the impending establishment of a government of theHendersonsCastets will prove that I am right, will bring the masses over to my side, and will hasten the political death of theHendersonsCastetses and theSnowdensMélenchons just as was the case with their kindred spirits in Russia and Germany.…
It is a good day friend. Communism will win, and these liberal politicians are helping it do so. Don’t let the systems and their media and propaganda make you believe otherwise in their lies. They’re trying to convince you of your own defeat because of the implications if you don’t believe you have been, and instead realize they’re selling you the rope they will be hanged with; and you push harder in smarter ways that they can’t keep up with, using connections built in these mass movements and coalitions which invariably have radical new elements that just need drawn together.You’re ahead of them in this. They’ve, in a very real dialectical way, undermined liberal democracy and created more enemies to the capitalist systems and institutions than they made allies, by their own blunders in being incapable of conceding anything to intelligently reify socialists back into feckless parliamentary legitimization of bourgeois democracy, and their failures to navigate contradictions in ways that aren’t so short-sighted to look absolutely villainous to huge swathes of the population (and internationally, because this was a large enough movement to make headlines around the world; with a knock-on effect for the international proles who see parallels). Macron’s so scared of radical politics he’s making them everywhere he steps.
Sounds like copium to me. The neolibs have really figured out how to placate the masses. Things aren’t bad enough and the media keeps the majority unaware.
Plenty of people are protesting for one cause or another, see the troubles at the olympics. You don’t hear much about it on mass media anymore because governments figured out that it’s better to keep silent about it or protests spread.
I’m not saying what they’ll do but the concept of the French being “revolutioned out” borders on comical. It may be beheadings or merely stacking trash in the street, but they aren’t known for staying quiet.
I think they will go increasingly Vichy just with Berlin replaced with Washington, through Berlin.
You’re telling me writing something on a piece of paper in a liberal system predicated on being capitalist can’t actually get rid of liberals?
Organize, comrades.
It took me a while to understand what you meant because we don’t write anything on our ballots. There are piles of small cards with one candidate (or list) on each, we (are supposed to) pick one of each and put one in the envelope.
But yeah, I agree with your take.France could use a new Republic. what’re they on, six now?
id recommend a commune
But this time seize the fucking bank
- The united left wants a sixth with major change from that slow inefficient fifth.
If voting changed anything they wouldn’t let us do it.
France’s public-sector deficit is projected to reach around 5.6% of GDP this year and go over 6% in 2025. The EU has a 3% limit on deficits.
oh no, not even Germany follows that deficit limit, its literally a number they pulled out of their asses to fuck up welfare systems. fucking BBC
Also to force privatisations on the member states who don’t have the clout to just ignore the rules
Fuck CDU/AfD. Germany is already taking the wrong side of history.
Germany is already taking the wrong side of history.
Always has been
the illegal and undemocratic annexation of the gdr really was a tragedy.
Wouldn’t be the first time, won’t be the last time
The assemblée nationale can block and cause the prime minister to resign can’t they? Can the left wing alliance not join forces again to veto the pm appointment? I guess the problem is that they managed to do it to repel the le pen’s party but not all left leaning parties are similarly united against Barnier’s government.
They could but they won’t have enough votes to go through with it unfortunately. The assembly is roughly 33% of the three big groups, the united left, Macron’s party and the far right. With the united left having slightly more seats than the other two.
Scratch a liberal
