• Diuretic_Materialism [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    7 months ago

    As yes nuking a territory right next to your own holdings that you intend to occupy after conquering. Surely settlers will want to move into irradiated land and the winds will never blow east towards Tel Aviv!

    Fascists aren’t even good at doing fascism, Jesus!

      • came_apart_at_Kmart [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        7 months ago

        it’s an important distinction, between Christian-Zionism and Israeli-Zionism that seems to be lost or purposely obscured by democrats:

        • Israeli-Zionism is settler-colonial and wants to exterminate the indigenous…
        • Christian-Zionism wants the entire world to burn in a nuclear Holocaust right after Jesus comes back in a magic Ford SUV and drives all 1200 people at their specific megachurch to heaven, where they can eagerly watch everyone else writhe in agony forever.

        imagine forming a coalition with the heavily armed and powerful people who pray for your eternal torment.

        • Frank [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.net
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          7 months ago

          I’ve had a couple of frustrating experiences lately trying to explain what a vile, empty mockery of religion Christian Fascists are and to no one’s surprise Europeans who have never dealt with them face to face are unable to accept my explanations and insist that i’m mistaken and there must be hidden depths and human sentiment there.

      • Diuretic_Materialism [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        7 months ago

        I… would still consider that fascism.

        Regardless, I would think even then he’d understand why Israel wouldn’t want to nuke something right next to them. Fuck why not advocate for nuking Iran that at least seems a bit more plausible and just as likely to lead to the end times.

        • brainw0rms [they/them]@hexbear.net
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          7 months ago

          Evangelicals don’t give a damn about Israel or Jews in general, so I don’t think he’s really taking their motivations or longevity into account. They (evangelicals) believe the existence of the nation of Israel and its subsequent total destruction are prerequisites for the Christian apocalypse/rapture. That’s his only goal. I sorta agree that viewing this through a “fascism” lens isn’t really helpful for understanding how people like Lindsey Graham think.

          • Diuretic_Materialism [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            7 months ago

            I find it so weird that Evangelicals want to BRING ABOUT the apocalypse. Plenty of other religions believe in an “end time”, but you don’t see this kind of behavior from Jews, Muslims or even most older Christian sects. They all accept God is a being so powerful and all knowing that understanding his grand plans is impossible and you are just gonna have to accept the end times will come about when God wills it and just live you life as best you can till them.

            Evangelicals want to be able to not just predict, but incite the apocalypse. Like what if they think they don’t put the leg work in Gods grand plan is gonna get totally derailed and reality will have to keep chugging along a few thousand years past schedule? Gods gonna be PISSED if I don’t get the US to nuke Iran, it will fuck up his whole timetable!

            • Frank [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.net
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              7 months ago

              Christian Fascism is defined by almost complete lack of theology or scholarship, and for being extremely schismatic to a farcical degree. It’s a religion of the id, of the pure libido of the American white suburban aggrieved peitit boug psychopath. It’s all about petty greed and spite and personal wish fulfillment.

            • TechnoUnionTypeBeat [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
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              7 months ago

              It also runs completely counter to the stated goal of their religion

              The bible is pretty clear that the end time is unknowable and until then humans have to be good stewards of the planet. Trying to bring about the apocalypse isn’t exactly good stewardship

            • Dolores [love/loves]@hexbear.net
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              7 months ago

              milennarianism requires the twinge of new developments to get the ball rolling, but once it starts ‘you can’t expect god to do all the work’ and ‘we need to prepare’ apocalyptic ideology start mixing together & spawning actual activist tendencies. this is where you get people selling all their belongings, long distance pilgrimage/migration, novel social organization, and for people with state power, an exercise of it (usually on vulnerable people).

              so in this case evangelicals haven’t been constantly on an israel apocalypse fever for the 200 or so years whereever you wana peg ‘evangelicalism’, but it springs from the simple existence of israel which checks one of the prophetic boxes in their interpretation, and then right now they’re having a war & spiked the interest because they think there’s a bigger opportunity. a couple years ago in the slow apartheid stage of the conflict, evangelicals didn’t have the same excitement. unless Lindsey Graham was banging a proliferation drum for the past decade, his statement demonstrates this.

            • GrouchyGrouse [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              7 months ago

              There is a specific passage in, I believe the post-gospel books of the New Testament (but it could be in the gospels but I’m pretty sure it’s in Acts or the Letters) it specifically says “you can’t predict the time of the return of the Messiah, it might be tomorrow, it might be in a hundred years. YOU WILL NOT KNOW so you must live by Jesus’s teachings right now and always not just in the moments leading up to his return. You aren’t going to min/max the apocalypse, yo.”

              Of course evangelicals don’t give a shit about this. Doesn’t stop them from trying to force God’s hand or whatever. Fucking goons. The rapture isn’t even in the fucking Bible, either.

              • wtypstanaccount04 [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                7 months ago

                35Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away. 36 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.…

  • Assian_Candor [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    7 months ago

    But Israel doesn’t have nukes :thonk:

    Edit: just watched the clip, graham says we should “give them the bombs they need to win this war”

    What a vile pig person

    • EmmaGoldman [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      7 months ago

      What do you mean, “what if?” That’s always been the entire point.

      Israeli foreign policy is holding the world hostage to demand endless shipments of weapons and support, because they’ll irreparably damage the planet if placed into a losing position.

        • EmmaGoldman [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          7 months ago

          Here’s a range map for the Jericho IV (YA-5) missile, which entered service in 2019. It’s closely related to the Shavit 2 rocket, which can take an 800kg payload to LEO. The Jericho IV has a “rumored” nuclear strike capable range of 11,500km. Here is a Great Circle range map, showing this 11,500km range centered around Tel Aviv.

          Israel also has 5 Dolphin-class submarines, each equipped with a 200 kiloton nuclear warhead with a 1500km range, providing an offshore second-strike capability or which could be used as part of the Samson option.

          The entirety of the Israeli nuclear program is considered “rumored” despite hard data on specifications existing, so it’s basically the one and only time where you can assume rumored information is correct.

          Source: 2005 Congressional Research Service Missile Survey report and like, constant bragging from Israeli military brass about this.

            • EmmaGoldman [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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              7 months ago

              I thought they didn’t have an icbm program, but maybe not?

              It should be general knowledge at this point that Israel’s MO is basically to tell you “no we’re not doing this” while absolutely doing it and then all but openly bragging about it in Hebrew-language media.

              General Itzhak Ben-Israel, former head of Maf’at (Israeli Directorate of Defense, Research and Development) said of the then in-development 3 stage extended range variant of the Jericho III “Everybody can do the mathematics… we can reach with a rocket engine to every point in the world.” This three stage variant capable of 11,500km is the Jericho IV missile. That CRS Missile Survey document gives information on the Jericho III and technically the Jericho IV as the 3 stage version was spun off into that version.

              I can’t really give you harder evidence than a direct US government report that covers the missile in question, it’s not like Israel (or anyone else) is just publishing the full spec sheets for civilians to peruse or anything. I’ll admit that it does suck that the best documentation available on this is 20 years old, but feel free to submit a FOIA request.

        • radiofreeval [any]@hexbear.net
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          7 months ago

          We also don’t really know how a modern nuclear attack would play out. We have simulations but it’s not an easy thing to simulate and the nature of nuclear attacks have changed a lot since the 40’s

      • Des [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.net
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        7 months ago

        it’s funny how they tried to make us quake in fear over the threat of “rouge states” (aka North Korea, Iran, once Iraq, libya, now russia) all of them, besides Russia, don’t have the capability of ending civilization and unlike Russia, dont have a policy specifically to do it as a big “fuck you” to the rest of the world if they don’t get their way

        i’m seriously, 100% scared deep in my bones israel will do a Samson-option like strike if they undergo a sudden internal collapse, which at this point is far more likely then the U.S. the U.S., while not having this policy, i do believe would absolutely do the same thing which is why i am far more leery about calls for civil war or balkanization because i fear for the rest of the world

        but israel keeps me up at night. if the concept of a true “rouge state” to the international order or whatever was real every nation on earth would be forming a coalition to invade and pacify israel and use a massive combined special operations mission to secure the nukes and kill/capature all their political and military leadership. like a joint global U.N. military operation the likes the world has never seen. blockades, deployment of every anti-missile weapon system known to man, total communicaiton blackouts, and possibly even preemptive nuclear decapitation strikes with stealth cruise missiles.

        whatever it takes. we unite against this threat.

        but instead the west pretends this nation with 300+ secret fission-fusion weapons is moral and rational

        sometimes i wonder if there is a more “realist” minority contingent in the U.S. military-political blob that is letting israel do whatever it wants and keeps them placated not out of ideological commitment to zionist but knowing they have a rabid and violent animal on a rusting chain and know they can do nothing to stop it

    • Frank [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.net
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      7 months ago

      He’s probably posturing but who even knows with Graham? There aren’t words for someone whose role in society is as corossive as that man.

        • Frank [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.net
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          7 months ago

          Apparently the Reagan admin was surprised, after the cccp was destroyed, to find that the Soviets actually believed things the president of the us said in public regarding us foreign policy. I guess it just never occured to a bunch of petit boug christian fascist frauds that anyone would actually believe public statements from politicians.

  • Amoxtli@thelemmy.club
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    7 months ago

    I hate this guy, and they give this guy plenty of TV time. An American politician goes on mainstream news media talking about nuclear weapons on people. This is the type of personalities that trustworthy mainstream news media puts on air all the time. I think the American population are undergoing a wide psychological operation.