Are they saying every ordinary Russian is inside of Putin 😳
In every Putin there’s an ordinary Russian Citizen.
Define Putin
Ukraine trying really hard to be the Israel of eastern Europe.
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chapo dot chat is a website
Nooooooooo… not the wholesome europeans.
The framing here does not say “they are military targets”. It strikes out the negative to assert the positive, i.e., it is in discourse with a depoliticizing narrative that “I have nothing to do with Putin’s war, don’t touch my Wildberries”. It really is at the same level as saying that ordinary Americans and ordinary Israelis are not innocent of the Iran war, the Gaza genocide etc. It is saying to the population: you can’t wash your hands of this.
Now, that said, this is a flat nationalistic way of saying this, and it’s a war propaganda poster.
Edit, yup, in the original Instagram post, that’s exactly the framing, not “kill’em all”:
Russia is slowly being welcomed back. Western celebrities are performing in Russia again. Russian athletes are gradually returning to international competitions. Russians are being welcomed back into cultural and public spaces - all while Russia’s war against Ukraine continues. Behind this normalization lies a familiar argument: don’t punish ordinary Russians for Putin’s war. They have nothing to do with it. But is this really just Putin’s war? Let’s debunk one of the most persistent - and convenient - myths about Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
It talks about normalization in culture and sports, it doesn’t talk about killing them.
So why put an AK-47 in the “Ordinary Russians”? And they post that after weeks of killing Russian civilians this is pure bullshit.
I’m not here to defend Ukrainian war crimes. As to the ak47, I wrote:
Now, that said, this is a flat nationalistic way of saying this, and it’s a war propaganda poster.
So, it is depicting Russian citizens as combatants, that‘s what you‘re trying to say?
Sure, if you ignore all the rest of the framing, it is just doing that.
The framing of depicting them alongside and identically to a bunch of things the Ukranian government wants to kill?
Are we playing snakes and ladders? Go to the top of the thread: https://lemmy.ca/comment/24728683
That’s what you’re trying to convince people the framing is, the actual framing can be seen by anyone with eyes.
That’s still pretty disgusting, literally arguing that Russians should be expelled from culture and public spaces. It may not be “kill them all” but it is essentially “ethnically cleanse them”
…what do you think Russia has been trying to do to Ukraine?
None of the things mentioned, but it wouldn’t matter if they did; ethnic cleansing as a form of collective punishment is still monstrous you soulless ghoul.
… you definitely know what words means
So because the US killed Iranian citizens, now Iran gets to kill American citizens? Is that how it works?
Yeah, probably. You invade a country without a good reason ans kill civvies, why wouldn’t retaliation be on the table?
You don’t get to invade a country and maintain any sort of moral high ground. Israel, the US, Russia. It’s all the same shit at the end of the day. But Tmthe US sucking doesn’t automatically make their opponents the good guys. Russia sucks too and you would have to be a completely brainwashed moron not to realize that.
Do you read your own comments before posting? Do you even understand what you’re saying?
Killing civilians is not retaliation. It’s a specifically prohibited war crime, with punishment up to death for those responsible. It’s not supposed to ever happen, regardless of which side you’re on.
If someone kills your family member, you don’t get to kill a family member of theirs and call it even. That’s not how any of this works. If societies operated like this, we’d all be dead already.
By your logic - you wouldn’t mind being pointlessly slaughtered just because your government (that you didn’t vote for) decided to arbitrarily invade another country (which you protested against), would you? Or having a global nuclear wasteland, because that’s the only thing endless escalation leads to?
You don’t get to invade a country and maintain any sort of moral high ground. Israel, the US, Russia. It’s all the same shit at the end of the day.
It doesn’t matter who’s invading whom. Killing civilians is despicable, period. Anyone responsible for it should be held accountable to the highest degree possible. Regardless which side they’re from. Both Ukraine and Russia, just like both US and Iran should answer for all crimes committed. There are no excuses for any of this.
Being a victim of an invasion doesn’t immediately give you immunity or permission to do whatever the hell you feel like doing. Just like if someone breaks into your house, you don’t get to do the same or worse to them.
Literally reversing victim and offender here. Ukraine spent eight years trying to ethnically cleanse their east, killed 14,000 civillians, and now that Russia has stopped them and is waging a war 10 times safer for civillians than America’s unprovoked full scale invasion of Iraq, now libs wanna call that ethnic cleansing.
Show me the policies, show me the outlawing of culture and language, show me the death squads. I can show you all of those things from the Ukrainian government.
Oh man. Are you really defending the clear aggressor in an obviously unjust war?
Surely the entire world is wrong about this one and we’re being mean to poor, innocent Russia who clearly did nothing wrong.
Surely the entire world is wrong about this one
The “entire world” being the western powers of Amerika and friends.
Are you really defending the clear aggressor in an obviously unjust war?
Man it would be so cool to be a dipshit who thinks you can describe wars like a barfight between two people, as if thats how countries work. Too bad it’s not one of those just wars that Ukraine participates in, like the US-Israel war on Iran
But to reiterate, no, I’m against the Holocaust participant-worshipping nazi regime that attempted genocide on a subset of it’s own people before being stopped by Russia.
The entire world
“The entire white empire”
Anyway,
Show me the policies, show me the outlawing of culture and language, show me the death squads. I can show you all of those things from the Ukrainian government.
Show me any of this or shut up.
How dare you post the original context of the post - that goes against the narrative!
How could they put it clearer?
Does that say “we consider civilians military targets?”
Yes.
Edit: and not only do they say that, they also practice it by showing have shown that they have no qualms about killing civilians.
Oh? Does it? Can you point to where it says “we, the Ukrainian government are proclaiming to the world that we are targeting civilians?”
I don’t see any evidence to back up the claim, so I’m afraid I can’t agree to your assertion. A single image that can be interpreted in a multitude of ways (as I describe elsewhere in fact), is not any sort of proof I consider valid.
I’m greatly interested if you have other evidence to suggest the claim is true, as that would constitute a significant crime.
Edit (as it appears you have included further context in an edit): What I am wanting to see is a documented pattern of Ukrainian military personnel attacking civilians. I’m not talking about buildings - I want to see the UAF doing the same shit the IDF does to innocent Palestinians (that the world chooses to ignore).
Modern mechanized warfare by definition effectively forces civilian and military targets together because they rely on the same infrastructure to function (power plants, railroads, bridges, etc.) Does that make striking those things right? Well, no, but war itself isn’t exactly “right,” but striking those targets for their military value with civilian impact being collateral damage is a far cry from the IDF’s double-tapping of aid workers.
Just today Ukraine killed 13 civilians and wounded another 80.
They also suicide-bombed a restaurant last week.
This is inexcusable.
Can you point to where it says “we, the Ukrainian government are proclaiming to the world that we are targeting civilians?”
Can you point to where Charlie Kirk ever said “I am racist”?
…Yes? How does saying ordinary russians are to blame, depicting them holding AKs, imply anything else?
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Even if it’s implying lesser culpability, how does that not imply civilians are legitimate targets, when it’s still implying culpability?
That’s some Bibi shit.
civilians are not civilians , I’ve heard this one before
Holy shit this thread really drawn out the inner Israel in so many libs.
yikes
Why ukraine had an issue with 7 of october then?
Because Hamas attacked Israeli military bases and Israeli armed terrorists are innocent civilians.
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Drawing ordinary Russians with an AK sure implies something else. Enlighten us.
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That would be a historical first.
On socials? Maybe. But I don’t think it’s the first. A particular geno-country said everyone one that they want out, is a terrorist.
In real life. Since when do regular people have an interest in war?
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Yes. Under the guise of “everything is Hamas” of course.
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Alright I didn’t realize you came here to troll and lie. You had your source bye.
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Yup, name a more iconic duo then obvious Russian propaganda on .ml and “post removed” everywhere in the comments. Ml really is our /r/conservative
The only people I ban are Liberals screeching that everyone is a paid Russian shill. But keep crawling into that victim role while insulting everyone.
Edit: and one guy who excused bombing schools and online shopping warehouses
To people used to imperial propaganda, the absence of imperial propaganda feels like propaganda
Kindness is Punk
Unless it’s towards ze enemies of ze Nation, amirite?
We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.
– William Casey, 13th CIA Director
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“Is it poor taste to draw civilians as military targets while we broaden our campaign to target civilians and civilian infrastructure? Parhaps…”
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This comment is some insane Ukrainian apologia.
The image clearly depicts an ordinary Russian holding a rifle, standing next to 3 publicly declared military targets, with a caption saying ordinary civilians are to blame. It really doesn’t get more obvious than this.
We can argue about some broader context, like extremely entitled Russians crying because their stupid berry business is losing money. But that does nothing to change the fact that the image itself sends a message to the effect of: “Russian civilians are our enemies.”
And we already know for a fact they are. Ukraine has repeatedly demonstrated that it has absolutely no issues with striking civilian targets.
Note that none of this means Russia is any better. Criticizing Ukraine (for self evident war crimes, no less) is not pro-Russia. It’s anti-war-crimes, period. Both of the sides can, and seem to be, fascist shitholes with no regard for international law, or even as simple a value as life.
Just because Ukraine is the victim in this war, doesn’t mean it’s immediately a good country, and doesn’t mean it now gets to do whatever it wants. Just like the US Empire attacking Iran doesn’t make the Iranian government good guys, and doesn’t justify any Iranian war crimes.
Focus on the content of the image and it’s reasonable to say a Russian citizen holding an AK is an enemy. Ukraine is full of them.
You want to insist on my nuance but how many dead friends and family would you need to see it plainly for what it is.
“No no, this poster encouraging collective punishment of civillians is correct actually”
-The good guys
You people have gone fully insane
Funny how it’s always silent about the Russia side of those same war crimes though.
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It really is, not even directly defending the poster in and of itself but it didn’t happen in a vacuum and pretending it did is apologia for nation that invaded sovereign soil unprovoked, murders civilians in cold blood and then to point at this as an out after YEARS of this conflict?
Yeah it’s not really about the poster, they support Russia’s invasion, anti-imperialist only if it’s the USA I guess
Like the saying always goes, if Russia stops there’s no war, if Ukraine stops there’s no Ukraine.
Agreed, it one thing to say this poster is too far but that isn’t what they’re doing. They’re using it to paint Ukrainians as the aggressor which they very clearly are not.
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