I know — I’m late to this party but if you have the traditional Star Wars background and you suddenly gain full access to Andor… just do it! It’s likely in the top ten of all televisions series by itself, but when you top it off with Rogue One… it’s sublime. True art in its finest manifestation! The pairing is simply breathtaking.
I saw Rogue One in the theaters and clocked it as the finest of all the Star Wars movies — and to rewatch it after Andor and ten years… just one of the finest media viewing experiences of my life.
And Rogue One experts: is the director of Rogue One directly referencing Blue Velvet’s Frank when Sol Guerrero hits his gas?? How did I not notice this the first time. It’s amazing — and like Frank, the gas makes him crazy. It’s too close not to be intentional. Anyway… forgive me — I’m having a media high. Just want to share that! Go… do this… and may the force be with you.
I’m going to be honest, and I think this is unpopular, but Andor ruined Rogue One for me. I thought it was one of the better Star Wars movies, but Andor sets such a higher bar that it’s somewhat annoying in comparison. It could have been so much more. Now it’s just yet another mostly mindless action flick. Yeah, it’s technically the continuation of Andor’s story, but there’s just so much different about him that it might as well be another character. His story ends perfectly in Andor that I can mostly just not bother with Rogue One.
Do you remember when Luthen murders his long time informant in one of the last episodes?
I’m sure you know he does this because the Empire has the Truth Headphones. He literally had to do it because he knew he could not get this guy and his family to safety.
At the opening of Rogue One, Andor has to make the same decision to protect the rebellion. All of Andor’s personality aligns between the two efforts.
Please tell me what you see as so much different about him?
Well, one that stood out, is when they’re captured and he says he’s never been in prison. I haven’t seen it in a while, so I can’t really give details. It’s not that he’s totally different, but it also doesn’t advance his character really. Everything he “learns” in Rogue One, he already learned in Andor. It is unnecessary for his character.
Star Wars has this way of being intensely personal for each person who sees it. It’s one of the only intergenerational transmissions of culture that we have preserved. So, your take on it is your take, and I respect that.
I literally remember thinking when he said he’s never been to jail that he was being sarcastic — tossing himself the inside joke. It made the whole thing even richer for me.
I just can’t get into Andor. It’s meh
This is exactly how I fell about Mandelorian
See. Rogue one for me is another example of how movies that are not just ruined get rave responses. Its like everything after a certain point it feels like if they ruined it its considered ok and if they just kinda ruined it a bit its considered good and if they make something halfway decent and don’t somehow ruin it then its like top notch.
I may not be tracking here. My rave about Rogue One is because I watched it directly after watching the series Andor.
I agree the movie may have flaws to someone who has never seen Andor or any other SW movie.
yeah I will take your word for it and if its ever free to stream I will try to pick it up but I have had to many disapointments to go after content at this point. Heck im a sucker for superhero movies and have been off them. Friend got me to watch supes and was like meh for me (which was my response to rogue one) but im likely to catch supergirl becuase her a krypto were my favorite parts and then marvel is supposed to do secret wars and I will likely get that and I predict be greatly disapointed.
Franchises are killing movies. Totally predictable and not worth chasing any more. I only watched Andor because my son and I watch stuff and spend time together.
My post is a little over the top because I was so surprised the show was decent. And then of course lead into the ten year old Rogue One was incredible.
But yeah… wait for a friend to send you the mpegs… poke around even. I’m sure they are out there.
and I get that. Its kinda what I was trying to say. Its so unusual for something to be decent it kinda gets the reaction that its great which im talking internet in general but I also feel that. Its like I expect crap so im pretty pumped when something isn’t.
I’ve taken to watching the “great” films. There are tons of top 100 lists where you find gems you might never watch.
I just watched an early 70s version of THE LONG GOODBYE. Directed by Robert Altman. It’s amazing.
And then… all of Altman’s movies are great. Kubrick. Peter Greenaway. David Lynch.
Just find a director you like and watch them all.
It beats throwing up in your mouth every time there’s new franchise swill.
Yeah I have been watching older shows and films. Even if they are not great its not costing me anything and its at least in general original.
What’s one that you remember as being good? A recommendation?
Well… apparently that first scene is about an hour away from the last moment of Rogue One. That’s just magnificent.
Did you see the hater in this thread?? What’s up with that?
I was so disappointed when they announced there would be no season 3 as originally planned
There was suppose to be five.
Every three-episode arc of season two was suppose to be a full season. But Disney said the show was way too expensive so Tony Gilroy negotiated one final stupid-expensive season and rolled everything he has outlined into it.
TBH I think it worked better that way - kept the momentum up, and there wasn’t a wasted moment
I agree. Trim out all the unnecessary stuff, end on a high note.
Keeping the actors from aging out too much too
It also reached the time scale boundary. It was taking too long to film. While each season took several years of production, filming and post production, story wise, every season was just a few months later on the plot. While the main character was a young man at the start, by the last season he was a solidly mature man, and skarsgard was edging closer to old age too. But only a bit over a year had passed on the plot.
Every lengthy show hits this wall, it’s even worse with child actors but adults are not exempt.
old
i feel like alot of shows are suffering this right now. the actors getting too old in between seasons, because you have multi year(1-2year) gaps. rather than 6 month gaps, and then the show falls off due to the length.
Be sure to search YouTube for Rogue One The Andor Cut. Someone is tweaking Rogue One to seem like it was filmed after Andor.
I believe it comes pretty darn close as it is.
Yeahhhh I think the Frank thing is a stretch.
Anyway. Heineken? Fuck that shit! Pabst Blue Ribbon!!
Also, yes Andor is the GOAT.
I may not know much about inhalants… but I’ll bet there is some conversation out there about the frank connection.
Rogue One is my favourite Star Wars film by a long way. Andor is the icing on the cake. I’m so glad you enjoyed them!
What a delight!
Is this written by AI?
I don’t think so, I think OP just enjoys using --, some platforms/text entry methods automatically convert that into em-dashes
OP gets the name of a character wrong - Sol Guerrero is Saw Gerrera, which an AI probably wouldn’t do, and the usage of two question marks, incomplete sentence fragments, ellipses everywhere… I think OP is all human
I use Voyager and maybe it’s creating the em dashes. Not sure but I’m a little creeped out to think my writing sounds like AI. How bizarre — especially when I’m having a media high.
Jesus… I just did the em dash… it’s my thumbs. I also use ellipses… just weird stuff about me.
You’re all good, OP! People are just hypervigilant. I’m autistic and people occasionally assume or ask if I’m AI, just because my writing style can be a bit overly formal sometimes I think. Don’t give it a second thought!
Thanks! I don’t think I reflect much on my tone.
99 percent invisible has an episode on em dash. They did it because someone who had been using it way before AI existed suddenly had people claiming that he used AI to do his writing for him.
Plenty of classic authors have been tagged as AI generation because they use things that are now deemed artificial. Yet, it’s writing styles that have been around a long time. It’s almost as if the models were trained on some things that a lot of good writers use.
Screw sabotaging writing to look non-AI, it’s our writing!
One good thing that’s come of all this for me is learning about em dash, en dash, and hyphens far more than I ever learned in school. They do have their place, and while AI may overdo it a lot or wrongly, that doesn’t make the punctuation itself evil, or not have a purpose.
Also, as an American, I like the British style of using en dash better, but can’t use it here because publishers would turn their noses up at it. But it looks better.
How much work are you submitting? Markets?
Nope. Just me. Not sure what else I have ever written about here in Lemmy but you are welcome to explore my previous posts. It’s just me.
with those strange -'s it seems so
Now go watch a new hope. Completely changed the film for me.
Rogue One was absolute shit due to the troubled production and two disparate creative voices. It’s not just a bad Star Wars movie, it’s a bad movie entirely.
Problem #1 was they didn’t start with a script, they started with a supercut of scenes from other movies so they could determine how long each scene should be before writing it.
https://kottke.org/17/01/rogue-ones-unique-storyboard-remixed-from-100s-of-films
"Then I used dialogue from other movies to give you a sense of how long it would take in other films for someone to be interrogated. So for instance, when Jyn gets interrogated at the beginning of the film by the Rebel council, I used the scene where Ripley gets interrogated in ‘Aliens’.
So you get an idea of what movies usually do."
But the script didn’t matter because Gareth Edwards would shoot a bunch of stuff off script every day. He called it “Indie Hour” and it generated a bunch of footage that looked good, but was incomprehensible and unusable. They put a bunch of it in the trailers which ended up confusing everyone because it wasn’t ever intended to be in the movie.
"“It was just a way for the crew of understanding, for now, we’re just going to do loads of random shit,” Edwards said. “Don’t try to ask, we can’t explain.
“It would just be things I thought were a beautiful moment or ‘This is a great idea’ and a lot of the stuff in the [first] trailer ended up through that process.”"
So, no surprise, wasting production time and money got him fired and they brought in Tony Gilroy to save the film… Who says:
"I’ve never been interested in Star Wars, ever. So I had no reverence for it whatsoever. I was unafraid about that,” said Gilroy. “And they were in such a swamp … they were in so much terrible, terrible trouble that all you could do was improve their position.”
So you get conflicting scenes where Andor cold-bloodedly murders an informant as an introduction to his character (Gilroy), vs. a conflicted Andor, sent to assassinate a legitimate military target, but when the time comes he gets super sweaty and… oh… just… can… not… pull… that… trigger! (Edwards).
So which is it? Murderer of innocent informants or PTSD conflicted soldier who can’t do his one job?
Speaking of “one job”, let’s talk about the Vader hallway fight (Gilroy). Vader force grabs every one and every thing in that hallway except the ONE THING he’s there for, the Death Star Plans. Those have plot armor, they HAVE to get away. So why be so stupid as to put Vader in the same hallway? Empire’s Vader would have simply gone “Oh, don’t mind if I do!” (YOINK!)
But, again, Gilroy was never a fan of Star Wars… so we get Vader watching the plans sail away on the Blockade Runner… which directly conflicts with the classic opening of Star Wars where he states that transmissions were beamed to the ship by rebel spies… No, according to Rogue One, he personally WITNESSED that shit.
Gilroy’s position of derision for Star Wars is the polar opposite of someone like Dave Filoni or Jon Favreau and he told his Andor crew to not have reverence for the property either:
So, no, not watching Andor. I’m sure it’s a fantastic commentary on space fascism, but it’s not Star Wars. If you want to make or watch a WWII movie, go do that, but don’t hijack another property to do it.
you talked about the Andor being a cold blooded killer moment at the beginning of Rogue One. I need to reply to what you are calling “conflicting scenes.”
Now… it’s obviously that you have dropped a load of hate on a movie I am telling you I now love.
I hope you have patience to hear me out.
I will refer to the television program ANDOR on all caps, and Andor the character like that.
So… ANDOR explained to me why he seems cold blooded to kill his rebel confederate. Why? ANDOR shows us the Republic has a tool that extracts the truth from rebels about the whereabouts and identities of all the rebels he has ever known.
When Andor shoots that useless turd in that first scene, it’s because if he allows him to live, the rebellion is finished.
Other folks who have watched ANDOR will bear this out.
Now… as to his not shooting Galen Irso… at the end… well… this is Andor’s humanity. Why he is a lovey character. Why the movie works so well. The girl, whose name escapes me, the daughter of Irso is ripped from irso at the beginning of the movie — Andor knows she has one chance to meet her dad, and he cannot take this from her because he loves her. That’s what’s going on there. Human love.
Is the move better after the series?? Hell yeah… so I won’t argue with you about it sucking, despite that I considered it the best of the SW movies when I saw it in theaters. Perhaps the fact that the director what not into the whole SW universe really helped.
Anyway… I’m hanks for chiming in. I hope you will watch ANDOR and rewatch Rogue One after… your perspective will change.
It is a fantastic exploration of how fascism comes into being and, unfortunately, very timely. It’s a great story that happens to use the setting of the Star Wars universe as a vehicle because that fall into authoritarianism was already built into the arc.
You’ve got the Vader scene all misunderstood by the one assumption that he had a clue what he was looking for, only that somewhere on that ship the Rebels had something that showed plans. Want to really take a logical jump? Then Vader should have just blown up all the ship then and there, then gone after the few that did get away (and might have had plans too). But see, that’s one of the messages in Andor… the arrogance of control is often its own enemy. Hell, even in Kenobi, that point was made and utilized (you probably aren’t a fan of that either).
It’s fine if you don’t partake. I just think you’re doing it because you got a bad taste from one thing and assume it’s all the same.
A bad taste from one thing and a complete lack of trust in the show runner.
He’s not interested in Star Wars, I am. That’s the key difference.
I’m sure it’s very good for what it is, but it’s not Star Wars.
It would be like if someone told me “Oh, you like salads? Man, I have a great salad recipe, you take chicken breast, cut it into pieces, marinate it in soy sauce overnight and then grill it. Take an onion bun, paint one side with peanut sauce, the other side with hoisin sauce, pile it up with shredded cabbage and carrots and cover with Thai sweet chili sauce, top it with the chicken. It’s great!”
“Yeah, but what you describe is a sandwich, not a salad.”
“Well, you know, I never liked salads, I have no reverence for them.”
(it is an AWESOME sandwich though)
That analogy doesn’t apply at all. It’s more like if a chef says, “I don’t particularly care about salads, but here’s a salad I made,” and hands me the most delicious salad I’ve ever had. I would enjoy the hell out of it and not complain that it doesn’t count as a salad because he’s not a salad fan
Except what Gilroy produced isn’t Star Wars. 😉
🙄
Sad
I agree, Rogue One was incredibly sad.
Filoni and Favreau love star wars, absolute fans, know everything there is to know, revere the IP like apostles at the altar of their god.
And yet they’re driving it to death by slopification. Everything they’ve done has been wet cardboard. Every piece is a memberberries tour. Nothing is fresh but regurgitated. Scripts are nonsensical, acting is stilted, cinematography is cookie cutter. The practical props art is fine, I guess, but many wardrobes and makeup are more than questionable. And the worst still, it’s not fun anymore. None of their stories are fun or entertaining, Ahsoka could put a wired up coke maniac to sleep.
Mandalorian has been a delight! Looking forward to the movie!
I get what you’re saying on scripting though, the Acolyte was awful. Bits of Kenobi were clearly broken. The scooter trash in Boba Fett was laughable.
But none of it made me rage the way Rogue One did. Well, Last Jedi. Phantom Menace. Rogue One is absolute bottom of the barrel.
The one I feel more sad about than angry is Rise of Skywalker… it was supposed to be Leia focused and then Fisher up and died. 😞 Not sure what they could have done there. Didn’t help that Last Jedi painted them into a corner.
I don’t remember hearing any Nirvana on the soundtrack. 🤔 Where’d you find 'em?
I’m using the term in its Buddhist paradise sense.
