I bought an “analog” washing machine (I can’t believe I just wrote that) because of simplicity. The more complicated something is, the more difficult it is to repair, and the more potential points of failure there are.
Buy a used older model if you need a machine. Because it’s cheaper, because it is more basic in its components, because those parts are probably cheaper to buy and replace yourself if need be, and mainly because someone is selling it at its age because it STILL works. Anything tied to a circuit board with a processor is a time bomb.
You will not get a washing machine without processor, let alone PCB. Processors also hardly ever fail. It is stuff like the voltage conversion which powers the logic side, the actual power switches for the motor, capacitors or simply stuff that corrodes.
Does an old school washer dryer that runs off timer relays / knobs / push buttons really have a CPU? I ask because that’s how mine is and I haven’t had to look at the controls but they seem dead simple to me. I get there’s different cycles but some simple ladder logic should be able to handle that, no? Half the world runs on simple machines like that.
Does an old school washer dryer that runs off timer relays / knobs / push buttons really have a CPU?
Nope, it’s just a timer-drive. cam triggering switches. The physical cam IS the CPU.
We have reached a point in time where there are adults who think everything that runs through multiple steps must have a microcontroller, because only really really old machines* do without.
*For the most part. I bought a brand new whirlpool dryer late last year, and it has a mechanical timer in it.
Mine has analog dials. I consulted several “buy it for life” communities before I purchased. Anything to cut down on unnecessary complications.
Are there any of these communities you could recommend?
The main one that has served me most well is over on reddit. /r/buyitforlife
What is it
Thanks. I have an LG washer and dryer, electric. They seem to work great now but I can’t see them working well for years. It’s been about 3 years now. My oven is maytag and we love it. Def. Keeping this in mind.
A newer machine however is a lot more efficient when looking at your energy and water bill.
Switching from an older to a newer machine made quite a difference on my monthly bills.
Having a newer machine cost me slightly less money on utilities, and considerably more in washing machine parts.
For me the savings on the electrical bill will be more than what I spent on the machine before the warranty is over.
Doubt.
My electric bill changed by less than $2 per month when I installed an “inefficient” washing machine. It was so little that I’m not sure the washer was the cause. That’s $72 over a period of three years. The machine it replaced was just out of warranty and needed a $200 drain pump.
I suspect the diffence here is what we pay for electricity. It is quite expensive in Europe. I pay around 0,35 euro per 1 kWh.
Yeah but washing machines either use a really simple micro controller or a whole load of really complex voltage based logic and control board electronics that even the guy who designed it couldn’t fix without a lot of writing notes and doing maths.
There’s more to go wrong on an old washing machine and each control board was unique to the machine so tracking down a replacement is hard - a nice simple raspberry pi Pico you can flash over WiFi would make it so easy to switch out one heater for another without too much thought about impedance or upgrade the turbidity sensor without desoldering resistors.
Plus it gives you infinite control over the program cycles allowing you to update up the best wash method for your detergent and lifestyle.
Of course you can only do that with an open source one. I think it’s coming, year of the open source
desktopkitchen work surface coming soon.There’s more to go wrong on an old washing machine and each control board was unique to the machine
What? Old washing machines just use switches and a cam that’s on a timer. Anyone who can read a basic schematic can figure out what is wrong with one.
That’s not really true though, the electronics is pretty complex and requires significant work to use different components - I’m sitting next to a pile of dissembled washing machines so i could talk you through a few of the complexities involved in reworking those if you like
There are washing machines without anything more complex than a switch in them. If you really had a “pile of disassembled washing machines” you’d know that.
Nothing to control the motor, nothing to control the heater, nothing to do timing or turn on and off water in and out?
Even a really shitty one has door lock sensor, temperature sensor, turbidity sensor…
Which means logic gates and transformers and things to shift voltages or control power flow.
That’s before you even get into the logic of controlled programs or advanced features like weight based energy saving.
A micro controller connected to a few relays and sensors could replace all the complex stuff and it’d cost far less, plus it could tell you which sensor is out. Plus it allows you to do otherwise very complex things like reprogram the current job while it’s running or to sync with other devices to limit max power load.
I want a Speed Queen. They’re way more expensive than your standard machines, but there’s a reason you find them in laundromats everywhere. They’re built to be abused.
What do people even do with their wifi appliances? Throw the load in and say Alexa start the washer? How is that easier than setting it yourself?
What do people even do with their wifi appliances?
Timing, automatic and stuff. To keep the washing machine example: you want the laundry out of the machine as soon as possible go hang it up as fresh as possible. You’re having a long day ahead of you, not a long time between coming home and going to bed, not enough for a full laundry run at least. You load up your machine before leaving home and remote start it the adequate time so it’s done shortly after you’re back home.
At least that’s what I’d use such features for.
Other people listen to Spotify over their fridge.But regular washing machines have programmable start times. I have a cheap Beko and can set it to start up to 19 hours in advance.
Main thing is I get a notification on my phone when it’s done. I’m not always near my washer. Sometimes I forget. The times vary a lot by load size so a timer it’s as good. Saves me time and keeps my clothes from getting moldy
Triggering home automation too. Like ventilating the laundry when it’s washing/drying and for half an hour after.
I cannot help but imagine people in a few decades to be completely detached from basic physics in the house and unable to plan for even the smallest things, without having their appliances help them. Then, when somethings not working, they just break down and cry, because they have no concept of how to do basic stuff anymore.
Sounds like a south park episode
I don’t connect mine .
But I wanted a washer dryer that had a heat pump drying system.
The one I got on sale also had an auto dosing tray for detergent and softener.
Genuinely very pleased with all the features my “smart appliance” has.
It uses less power, less water, less detergent. And it weighs and uses humidistats to not over dry my clothes.
The dumb ones that just work on set timers are less efficient than one measuring the load to decide how much water to use and when it’s dry.
I suppose I used to eyeball detergent but now a 40 wash bottle lasts me 50 washes.
Long warranty on it I hope I’ll never have to test. But it’s there.
To get that I ended up with a WiFi enabled machine and just never put it on a network and turned its own broadcast off.
I occasionally set a time on it. But genuinely throw in the clothes, push 2 buttons, and walk away.
Any appliance that can now be a heat pump instead of an element, or actually measures things instead of using timers is a genuine improvement. Even if it’s fairly rudimentary still.
Not everything is worse if it’s more complicated.
I ended up the same way. The heat pump washer/dryer combo I got happens to have wifi. I genuinely enjoy this machine even though I don’t think I’m capable of fixing it outside of buying a whole new “heat pump unit” and installing it. It works well and it’s way more efficient than the old electric unit that was here when we moved in.
I have a wifi washer and dryer.
The biggest advantage is that it sends you a ping when it’s done, and can send you a message about the need for routing maintenance, like changing filters or refilling the detergent container.
Settings wise, it’s slightly easier to set from the app, since a telephone has better UX than a washing machine. Mostly I just leave it at “you figure it out” so it’s moot.
You can’t actually start it remotely unless you press a button on the machine first, just send settings to it to activate by pressing start.
How is the phon UX better than the machine UX? The machines i know just have a knob dial for the program and a button each for stuff like temperature, spin, pre-program and start timer. It doesn’t get simpler than that imo.
It’s got a few more options for different settings than my previous washer did, as well as a steam setting that’s only available with certain programs.
It also has a couple of toggles for things like “extra rinse” and “wash faster”.
Having four knobs and three toggles, two of which are context dependent on one or more knob settings would be confusing, so it uses a screen with a knob and a couple of buttons.It’s perfectly possible to use standing at the machine, but I also noticed that the last time I needed to change a setting I did so on my phone is all.
I got one of these after my Samsung literally caught fire and it is… fine. Kinda small, loud, and beeps incessantly sometimes when nothing is running to the point I have to unplug it at night lest it go off at 4am again. Has yet to explode so soft recommend from me
This thing is legit, but why is their example photo showing a laundry machine next to a kitchen sink as part of a whole kitchen set up lol
In many countries flat layouts often result in having a washing machine in the kitchen. I do too. Of course it is not such a fancy thing and it wouldn’t fit here anyways.
I think that’s supposed to be a laundry room, or at least what seems like a reasonable laundry room to people who think $1,500 is a reasonable price for just a washing machine.
It’s reasonable given the reliability. It’s not affordable however.
Hey, that’s our new metal band name: Speed Queen!!
Only reason I have a smart washer and dryer is so they can send me a notification when they finish their load. As someone with ADHD and anxiety that’s a godsend.
Why would you abuse a washing machine? How much do you have to wash that such a machine would not be a complete waste of resources and money?
You don’t buy a truck just because every container is moved by trucks when all you transport is yourself and a bag.
Not a Texan, I see.
I actually can’t believe anybody would be stupid enough to think that Wi-Fi ever needed to be on a washing machine. That is literally a idea designed to milk extra money from sucker’s.
I mean… It’s not absolutely necessary? Yes.
It’s nice that it alerts you is finished specially taking into account it doesn’t always takes the same time and all that ? Yes
A beep or similar works too? Yes, but sometimes you are not near enough or similar and could be useful.
Or starting it remotely so when you reach home just finished or nearly and just arrive and hang the clothes.
I worked for an industrial tool manufacturer for a couple years. It’s well known brand but not one you can just go to Home Depot and buy. Their tools are very specialized and very expensive.
Anyway, the last project I was on before I left was one where they tried to create smart tools. It wasn’t a completely bad idea. Those things have specific maintenance requirements. Reminding the user that it’s time for maintenance based on a cycle count, hour count, or severity of conditions was actually a good idea.
But, management wanted two things: Wireless charging, and the ability to feed data from the tool back to a dashboard that the user could log into. Then, they would charge a premium for the “smart tool” and get the customer to pay for access to the dashboard. At least that was the idea. The problem was that customers didn’t give a shit about either of those “features.” They just wanted their tools to work reliably. The division president refused to listen. I don’t know how it worked out. For unrelated reasons, I didn’t hang around long enough to find out.
Adding [unnecessary] electronics to tools and appliances is cheap. There’s some engineering costs involved but once that’s done, the components usually amount to a small fraction of the overall build cost. And the markup is insane, which is one reason why they add those “features”.
I suspect that there’s plenty of engineering teams out there questioning why a stove needs WiFi and then getting overridden by some SVP who has literally never used a stove in his entire life.
But what if you are privacy conscious and poor?
That’s easy.
You are privacy conscious in those unnecessarily rich parties you got invited to by mistake.
You are poor for your homies and family.
By a used one I suppose.
We bought an “analog” washer and dryer for my wife and I when we moved into our first home. Hasn’t failed us yet. Her parents have a fancy set and they’ve had to get it fixed a few times already. Seems like the simpler the better for home appliances
This applies to all machines really. More parts means more things to go wrong.
Our dryer wasn’t working very well so we got a temporary one for $100 from Craigslist, but turns out it runs great and we have no desire to replace it.
Turns out electronics and moisture don’t go well together.
How does one wash wi-fi? Any special detergents or temp settings?
you put the router in the washing machine. of course, you have to poke a hole for the cables, since the router has no wifi when its turned off.
then, you turn the washing machine on. water should be enough but if you want to be safe you can put salt.
when the machine beeps you’ll have successfully washed the wifi away from your router.
Yeah would hate to have big laundry know about my lights and darks being mixed.
I mixed my colours with my whites
And now I fight the tie-dye fight
Equally good ones without wifi crap are even more expensive I hate it all
Probably b/c if they can’t monetize your data, then they choose to profit from you in other ways. :-(
Yep. A bit of that and a bit of “economy of scale”. If the industry is all in on X, X is going to be cheaper.
Don’t worry, like smart TVs, wifi connected devices will become cheaper than their alternatives soon
Do dumb TVs still exist at all?
Yes and they cost more!
You can get a 55" gaming monitor.
1700€
Fucking hell. Is the screen made of diamonds? It’s 4x the price of a TV of the same size. What are they smoking?
Maybe the smart TV’s are being subsidized by the money they make selling the data they collect from you?
Sure. But this doesn’t account for the whole 1000€ difference in price.
Is it specifically advertised for gaming, with high refresh rate or something similiar?
Mainly GTG response time and latency. For watching movies it’s generally not a problem, but when it comes to playing games with a mouse, latency can be a huge issue, and bad GTG response time leads to smearing.
But yeah, 4x the price is ridiculous.
Yes, look for commercial tvs
I don’t buy one because I’m not an idiot, we are not the same
Gonna build one out if a regular washing machine and a raspberry pi myself🗿
A what?
Yeah some of us have to hand wash our wi-fi the old fashioned way.
I can’t afford it anyway, I just like to pretend it’s because of privacy issues
Both. Both is fine
