- cross-posted to:
- smugideologyman@lemmy.dbzer0.com
- thebadwebsite@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- smugideologyman@lemmy.dbzer0.com
- thebadwebsite@lemmy.world
[a city devasted by war, with smoke coming from ruined building, in which dead corpses are lying in pools of blood, is below the following text]
WORKING CLASS PEOPLE KILLING EACH OTHER IN AN ENDLESS WAR WHILE THE POOR GET POORER AND THE RICH GET RICHER
[a smug character points at the devastated city, while saying]
If you do not blindly and fully support this, then you are an evil person who wants others to die
I don’t find that there is hypocrisy on this. In all recent cases, I’m firmly against the aggressor.
And so on. Everyone has the right to defend themselves, but most of the war going on today is NOT about defense.
Fyi the Israel vs Palestine thing has been back and forth for decades. Each generation only knowing of the previous attacks during their childhood. An eye for an eye has left everyone blind.
It has been going on for decades, but never “back and forth.” Israel has always been the clear and undisputable aggressor; some Palestinian factions (and in earlier stages mobs) have some blood on their hands, but that was always misguided self-defense or misguided retaliation, never outright aggression.
Sure, I agree, then let’s actually militarily defend Ukraine / Palestine / Venezuela / Iran / Lebanon.
Oh wait, it was all posturing and nobody’s willing to actually do that.
Now let’s find actually realistic solutions to those conflicts that aren’t 1 000 000 more dead proles.
No you can’t just expect people to base policy on something as dumb as material reality. It’s all about the total, inviolable abstract moral purity I can project from the safety of my comfy couch by having the only virtuous, ethical opinion: regardless of whether they want to or not, all Ukrainians should be sent off to fight the Russians until the last man or total victory. Everything else would just encourage further aggression.
Peace through strength - oh wait that’s the evil American line, we are better than thatThe EU is willing to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian 🫡
Ukraine has two options.
Get killer or raped, or both by putin’s imerialistic regime, or fight for their country.
So saying that EU somehow behind dead Ukrainians, it’s like saying that woman is responsible for rape because she should not fight back and just agree to aggression.
i think you’re both striking on part of the truth. Ukraine is the victim of an imperialist aggressor disrespecting their sovereignty and humanity. the western powers have also proved themselves unwilling to provide real support for Ukraine and will continue giving Ukraine not enough support to win, but just to continue to survive in this current manner. since 2023, Ukraine’s main ask in their aid requests has been glass. instead they recieve only missiles. and not the kinds of missiles they ask for, or in the quantities they’re asking for. so now they’ve developed some of the most advanced cruise missiles and attack drones, and suddenly the western powers are trying to acquire those and are negotiating with Ukraine like a real countly.
the horrying thing is who’s asking Ukraine for 2.5 ton delivery mechanisms, the USA. so far Ukraine has shown zero interest in selling these missiles to the US and continues offering the US shahed defense measures at increasingly higher prices the further America gets into a war with Iran and finding over and over that Israel is not a valuable intelligence partner. the art of the deal president may eventually buy those shahed defense measures, but he will pay a HIGH price for them, a much higher price indeed than when they were offered before invading Iran.
And what should they give to Ukraine? Only thing that we can do, is to fight russia, and wait until the economy collapsed. It’s not like you can send 10000000000 solders and somehow whole russia will stop the war, and putin will be hunt down and killed, and everything will be great again.
You’re talking about usa, that right now is in the hands of right wing nutjobs, that are not that far from putins regime.
USA asked a lot of countries about that. Because as everyone said, you cannot win a war in Iran. Country is too big, military is ready, and they can continue the war for many years, disturbing world economy.
USA and especially Israel are imperialistic states, and we can see what are the results.
the main thing i was thinking about this morning is that Ukraine’s requests for humanitarian aid are consistently ignored entirely, and their requests for military aid are usually met with a small portion of what was requested.
and overall here in your comment i’m in full agreement with you
Because arming people who hate you with heavy weapons is such a good idea. Why don’t we ask Prigozhin how that worked…
It’s posturing because the alternative is more French proles dead. You complain about proles dying yet are mad for Macron not racing to get French proles killed.
How about not arming Israel, not financing Russia through fossil fuels, not giving tax cuts to US megacorps while they fuck around the world, actially applying financial pressure on bad actors and organizing boycotts etc.
I was asking the question rhetorically, to make a point. There’s other ways to wage a war. We’re not even trying (or worse in the case of Palestine we’re actively harming them).
Yes, those would be good policies to adopt. No dissent there.
Did you stop using fossil fuels?
I don’t directly consume any myself, I’m not the correct person to try this gotcha on.
Although even if I wanted to, I don’t get to know or control which country the fossil fuels I’d use are imported from. These are things that are handled at state level. I’m a full time activist trying to get politicians who would deal with that elected (and trying to get the state to change its stance on Israel), my words are not hollow.
Actually, colonized peoples have the right to militarily resist their oppressors.
I don’t think kidnapping civilians is military resistance. I agree they clearly have the right to resist.
My understanding, and it’s basically impossible to verify this, is that the resistance was focused on military targets and taking POWs (which the israelis count the same any any civilian prisoners, and tried to make it seem like all prisoners or casualties were civilians), and a bunch of Gazan civilians independently broke out when the fences went down and grabbed a bunch of Israelis and handed them over to Hamas. Hard to say.
In any case, it would still be in line with the reciprocity and proportionality aspects of the laws of war. Israeli forces regularly kidnap Palestinians, though they call it “arresting”, and hold them indefinitely in very poor conditions with no real legal process. This was going on long before October 7th.