- cross-posted to:
- usa@midwest.social
- cross-posted to:
- usa@midwest.social
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I’ll be volunteering for her campaign :)
She’d better. She joined the Dems in supporting Israel though, and if she’s beholden to that party things will not change in the radical way they need to. If she doesn’t run independently we cannot root out the rot.
She joined the Dems in supporting Israel though, and if she’s beholden to that party things will not change in the radical way they need to.
Utterly deranged.
No you.
Don’t you have Uyghur genocide to deny somewhere, fascist?
No you.
This comment section reads as fanfics. Do people in the US not realise there won’t be any more elections? A coup is unfolding by white supremacists and you’re all like “here, look, the brown female chick will right the ship”.
Go to the history section of a library before they burn them down.
So we can burn along with the books? That’s an odd idea.
Not this bullshit again. Here’s what I think should happen: Lemmy needs to have a cultural immune system against this kind of overtly deliberate backwards-land bullshit infesting its way into the worldview of the place, because otherwise the Lemmy people are open to being manipulated by right wing propaganda into believing all kinds of total nonsense. If you upvoted this, or you believe it, I don’t really blame you necessarily, but you need to be smarter about believing everything that you see repeated a bunch of times, as if it is factual. If you see this and you know it’s not true, I feel like there needs to be some kind of FAQ or something where people can point to the extensive debunking for it, without it needing to be a long factual argument (which honestly is more than the disinfo deserves) or else a short hostile exchange (which isn’t productive either @pugjesus@piefed.social).
So this entire narrative that AOC is pro-Israel now, is spun up from a single vote she made on an amendment MTG made that would have removed a small amount of funding for Israel including a grant which is used among other things for some of their “defensive” weapons for civilian areas, while leaving intact the waterfall of money for their offensive weaponry. AOC along with almost everyone else voted no on that amendment, and then said some dumb shit about why she did. The amendment was never going to pass. The impact on Israel or anyone else was pretty minimal. It did nothing for offensive weapons, it was just a stupid amendment during a busy day of actual work, so AOC voted against it.
Of course, later on, she voted “no” for the massive funding bill which spent $830 billion on various types of killing, including $6 billion for Israel for offensive weapons, which has been pretty consistently her stance on Israel throughout including vocal oppsition both verbal and material. At one point she was doing enough that Biden got mad at her personally and they had a meeting about it or something, because she was materially gumming up the works. Her support for Palestine is super rare in the US congress. Nonetheless these guys are still talking about how bad she betrayed Palestine. It becomes a whole narrative, where she’s now pro-genocide irrevocably forever, and if you challenge them on it, they can run and hide behind the fact that she did, in fact, vote against that amendment, and so it’s proved now. She’s bad. Don’t vote for her.
For some reason, this only happens to the left-est of left politicians. You will never heard someone randomly start cursing about how big an asshole Joe Manchin was when he did absolutely incalculable damage to the planet by blocking the first iteration of the IRA. No, you will only hear these kind of neatly-packaged reasons not to support a left politician deployed and repeated (there are only like 10-20 of them, you start to see them repeat after a while if you pay attention) against the leftest of the bunch.
Wonder why.
Your point is decent; my point was meant to be an indictment of the Democratic party than an AOC purity test; the Democratic party is dragging her down.
That I’ll completely agree with. I was mostly responding to “she joined the Dems in supporting Israel” which is total fantasy which is being pushed by various (presumably conservative) narrative pushers who tend to emerge to try to trash leftist politicians with a variety of misconstrued or made up nonsense.
I like that she and Bernie are working together, hopefully they can come up with something which is more effective than just yelling truth at congress and having congress including the Democrats not give a shit and sabotage their best elements’ future.
AOC is already completely compromised. Her genocide support has ousted her for the fraud she is.
See my comment about the MTG amendment. Just to check myself: Is that literally all you’re talking about, that you are now summarizing as “her genocide support”?
You seem to lack knowledge about AOC. She pretended to cry voting for interceptors in 2020 and now she votes for them during a genocide.
You also conveniently left out AOC going on social media after the MTG amendement to explain that she fully supports sending interceptors to Israel during a genocide.
Show me the bill where she voted for them during a genocide.
I guarantee that it will be the dumb shit about the MTG amendment, which I explained in some detail (including the stuff you thought I left out, search for “said some dumb shit” in my comment). But sure, fill in my lack of knowledge, show me the vote. It’s this one, right? What other one? Or just that one? It’s purely from that one social media post of hers about that one vote?
Notice how you have to dishonestly defer to the word bill because she did vote on a pro genocide amendement.
You did not explain anything by the way you just pretended all accusations mean nothing when they do
It’s purely from that one social media post of hers about that one vote?
If she posts one Sieg Heil she is out too. “it was just a single Roman salute bro he did not mean it like that.”
Okay so just the one vote? I really do want to be completely clear about this. It’s weird that you’re not answering that simple question. It’s just the one vote? No other bill or amendment where she voted in any way that could be construed as pro Israel in any way? It doesn’t even have to be one that had any hope of passing, or that wasn’t a stupid waste of time, I just want to know if there is any other one. You said I lacked knowledge so I want you to help me fill it in.
If she posts one Sieg Heil she is out too. “it was just a single Roman salute bro he did not mean it like that.”
I mean, yes, if Elon Musk spent a pretty good chunk of his working life working for holocaust remembrance, worked to disarm neo-Nazi organizations, basically did his version of what AOC is doing, and then also posted one Sieg Heil, and that was the only thing he’d ever done that could be construed as a Nazi thing, I would want to know more. And then if there was some explanation that made sense I’d say okay cool, that probably doesn’t mean he’s a Nazi.
The issue with Elon is that he is clearly a Nazi and then also because he’s a Nazi he did this Nazi thing. The issue with AOC is that she’s very very clearly pro-Palestinian and various people who don’t want this pro-Palestinian person in congress are trying super super hard to paint her as anti-Palestinian by spinning up this one dumb tweet into a crisis and the whole of her character. It seems like it’s working, but it’s a dumb and dishonest effort to me.
Does that explanation really not make sense? I feel like you’re having trouble getting your head around it but it makes sense to me. Anyway, I’ve given it a few times, and asked a few times for you to help me see why that’s not exactly what’s up with AOC, and you keep talking but you do not offer any examples. Feel free to tell me any bill or amendment other than The One that AOC voted for. Since I’ve got a lack of knowledge you can help me with it. I don’t want to go back and forth forever but feel free to tell me another time beyond this one that is now a certain Lemmy contingent’s favorite thing to talk about that she’s ever done.
What other one do you need? AOC literally went on social media and clarified she voted against MTG her bill because she wanted to keep sending interceptors to Israel. To make sure nobody has any doubts left. So I am not sure why you are doubting her clear intentions.
She blows Newscom out of the water!
I have zero doubt the corporate oligarchs, that have ruled the USA since inception, will ensure another neoliberal is chosen to run interference on the left until the fascist dictatorship has installed enough loyalists to begin mass murdering all political and ideological opposition.
This also why the oligarchs fervently support first-past-the-post and then fiercely oppose the ranked choice single transferable vote.
Assuming we’re still allowed to vote by then, she’s got mine.
Gonna have to be a hell of a lot more aggressive than that if there’s going to be a election in 2028.
I could really appreciate Schumer retiring and someone half his age replacing him.
That’s an unusual way to spell “reverse-chokes on his own petard”, but I’ll allow it.
Please let it be so.
I’d rather she be VP for Walz first. I’m not ready to roll the dice again on Americans voting for a woman, and AOC in particular has been heavily demonized. Walz has the benefit of being a folksy old white dude, which seems much more electable across the board.
I’m okay with Walz if it comes down to it, but honestly, I don’t know that the demonization moderates may see towards AOC really outweighs energizing the base at this polarized point in our political history.
That’s why I think a safe-but-amenable ticket header like Walz works best. We get the benefit of base activation since she’s still on the ticket, without fully exposing ourselves to the biases against her.
No one gives a fuck who the VP is. JD Vance proves that pretty effectively but so did your own suggestion of Walz. He just was VP and it didn’t do shit for Harris.
On the contrary, I was one of many who breathed a little easier voting for Harris because he was on the ticket. The general wisdom is you choose a VP that scoops demographics that the ticket head misses. Just because you don’t care doesn’t mean no one does. I’m sure Vance scooped a couple shy demographics for Trump.
I like Walz. My leftist Minnesotan friends like Walz. He’s a likeable guy, he seems remarkably leftist for his demographic, which is the highly electable “old white dude”. The people who care about VPs will care that it’s AOC, and the people who don’t will see a friendly, straight-shootin’ white dude. Have a sense of strategy for Marx’s sake.
Sure, that’s the conventional wisdom but it seems like you’re missing that this is quite literally exactly what they said about Walz and Harris and we already know how that played out. I’m not sure how many times we have to do this the safe way before people start to understand that the safe option isn’t what people want.
this is quite literally exactly what they said about Walz and Harris
Howso? That’s not what I saw at all.
I’m not sure how many times we have to do this the safe way before people start to understand that the safe option isn’t what people want.
It is what most people want. There is a fraction of a percent of the population who wants the exact same outcome as you. Most of them just wanna mind their own business and try to be a good neighbor.
You’re not going to radicalize 80 million people. Until the electoral mechanism is changed, you’re going to have to find the 80 million voter bloc that offends you the least and caucus with them.
I’d argue Walz is too folksy. I can see MAGA walking all over him. I can’t see them doing the same to AOC or an American born version of Mamdani (if they exist), for example.
Doesn’t mean more regressive white people would vote for AOC or that hypothetical but Obama won twice with only 43% and 39% of the white vote so its doable.
Other Democrats continues to give the Republicans a little bit more every day, hoping that the GOP will return the favor. It’s been 25 years of this and now we have a holiday to celebrate a racist podcaster.
AOC and Bernie Sanders have been consistent with their direction. So Im going to hope AOC doesn’t compromise on her long held stances.
I’m not interested in a “let’s unite all Americans”, especially when we have government agencies who are actively promoting that trans people are terrorists, immigrants are criminals, white supremacy is just a harmless ideology and rich pedophiles are misunderstood citizens.
Drain the swamp and align America more like the rest of the world.
Well if Democrats want to decrease their chance of defeating the MAGA horde, sure, let AOC run. Democrats need someone who can draw the Independents. That is, if the U.S. even has elections by 2028. I am hoping to be an ex-pat by 2028 as o have no hope for our future.
I don’t believe there are any independents any more.
None that show up to vote at least.
Democrats need someone who can draw the Independents.
What independents?
Harris tried the “country-over-party” approach, and it turned into a “country-over party”
What independents there are remaining don’t vote on policy OR appeals to their sanity and decency, so why the fuck not tack aggressively left this time instead of meekly right?
I don’t think it’s really all that relevant what “approach” Harris tried, to be honest. The whole country gets its news from social media, and no one in either industry or government is even trying to prevent social media from being manipulated on a mass scale to paint weird false narratives. That more than anything is why Trump won. The next election happening in the first place (in a form where it’s actually possible for either candidate to win), or who wins it if there is one, is going to hinge on two opposing factors:
- How bad things have gotten in the meantime and how strong an organized opposition movement of the actual people has gotten in response, outside of anything “political” or party base
- Who spends the most money and talented effort on manipulating media and social media
I’m not sure the identity of the Democratic candidate actually matters. It would be nice if it was one that was actually good and not just more center-right crap as is usually the Democratic option. But also, if someone is looking around at the state of the country right now but also needs it to be the right candidate before they’ll vote not to have more Trump, that person is pretty much as dumb as a hamster (or has been fooled by a compelling sounding but astoundingly stupid disinfo argument, see second bullet point above).
The unfortunate ratchet effect. Tea party/maga tapped an alternative group. Dems need to reframe their platform maybe AOC will be a front runner there but it may look very different. Independents may get you an election or two but they’ll swing the other way unless you have something solid for them.
Who are these independents? I always see them brought up, only for them to abstain from voting or vote for Trump.
A strategy to draw in independents is a shift to the right. This would abandon the left base and present the party as lacking any vision other than weak compromise with fascism. This has been the Democrat strategy since the Tea Party movement of the late 2000s. It hasn’t worked and it won’t work. The Democrats need to present a narrative that resonates. “We’re not as bad as those other guys” isn’t going to get votes.
Leftist voters: I will NEVER vote for Democrats, they’re dead to me
Democrats: Hey centrists vote for us, we’re buds now (loses)
Leftist voters: shocked
Leftist voters: I will NEVER vote for Democrats, they’re dead to me
This is a straw man that doesn’t exist/basically doesn’t exist. Sure, there are some online leftists that like to pretend their vitriol is constructive criticism. Most casually left of center people were confused and annoyed when Kamala made a big deal of endorsing fracking. Or when she supported Israel. Or when she brought Liz Cheney on the campaign trail. All are moves to get moderates and none are effective at resonating with anyone.
17 million dems, who didn’t vote in 2024, prove that she can’t win. The dem voters will stick to their old, tired, and losing ways. Nothing will change. This timeline will continue to suck. The GQP and the MAGAts will cheat, steal, and eventually kill us all. And the Dems will do nothing. Nothing.
Our choices weren’t that great tbh. The dem candidate was dishonest and had inconsistencies in what was said.
Aoc seems to have some big balls and is new and fresh. At the same time, has shown in the media long enough to be an actual champion of human rights and upholding the law.
If you’re talking about Kamala, Not sure I agree with the inconsistencies.
I mean, the fact that she was Pro-Cop, was a black woman, and mostly focused on trying to keep the status quo rubbed nearly everyone - from the “Defund the Police” to the “Fuck corporate funding” to the “I hate women” group the wrong way.
As great as her as a president could be I really hope she chooses the Senate I think she could do a lot more good there. Having a semi-progressive candidate in the senate for such an important state could be a game changer.
I don’t think the United States of America will vote a woman into office. They’d rather vote another fascist in.
She’s a standing representative already. It’s not a giant leap to go from the House to the Senate.
If there will be one. And that’s a big IF.
I hope she cooks big chuck.
Pete Buttigieg is a better choice, but unfortunately too many Americans care about what he does in his bedroom and who he does it with.
Pete is just another neolib
Pete Buttigeg makes being gay look boring and dumb.
Better than you, at least.
What does that even mean? I make being gay look dumber and more boring? Do you even know if I’m gay or not?
Do you?
Pete is a ‘triangulator’ of the same variety of Clinton and Harris.
Pete, Gavin, or AOC would each be at least about 1000x better for us all than Trump. Any one of them would have my vote, donations, and maybe even volunteered time.
A stone placed on a podium would be x1000 better than Trump. It’s not a high bar.
A very excited rat would be better than Trump, don’t vote in a fascist-lite just because he hasn’t threatened you directly.
Absolutely! I just don’t know if any of the less rabid would vote for someone at the far left. Getting most of the pie is better than getting none of the pie.
