There are reasons subtlety and body language evolved.
Some men don’t take direct “Not interested. Please leave me alone” well. They’ll call you a [slur, slur] and maybe get violent. But fake laughter and dead-ending the conversation has lead to safer outcomes.
So, yeah, it sucks people can’t be direct and honest, but it’s not just coming out of malice.
Also a lot of the time people don’t really know what they want, or want contradictory things.
It’s not acting like children. It’s acting like adults. Most adults use subtlety for a variety of reasons. Personal safety and letting someone down gently are just two that come to mind.
You can want everyone to have a standard API with nice json output, but that’s just not how humans are. Expecting it is folly.
My fellow sapient, do you engage with real people in the world? Your position has merit in a “imagine a frictionless, spherical cow for this physics problem” kind of sense, but is absolutely unrelated to the real world of humanity the entire time we’ve existed, and probably going back to earlier primates as well.
Those are true statements, but seem to be a whole other topic from what we were talking about. You were rejecting the ideas of body language and subtlety by saying that’s asking for mind reading and childish.
If you don’t mind me asking, how is this reading minds? This is watching for behavioural cues, which lend some evidence of interest/disinterest. Men exhibit similar cues as well - think about the guy sitting at the bar, facing the interior with a grin looking about, versus the guy hunched over with a scowl counting the bubbles in his beer. Unless you’re moved by pathos to clink scowling guy’s glass, who seems more approachable?
Will admit there are folks who see a single behavioural cue and immediately jump to “They want to jump my bones”/“They wish me and my family were dead”, which is dumb. What I’m talking about is more “Oh, looks like they may be open to chat with someone, go say hi”, then noting if that impression stays or dissipates on fresh evidence. Again, the biggest problem I’ve heard of is people, but particularly women approached by men in a social setting, not wanting to tell the approaching party to fuck off (politely or otherwise) because of a perceived or real threat of violence. But this feeling often comes across pretty clearly in body language - if you’re a decent person, reading those cues and and exiting gracefully just makes sense.
Discounting non-verbal cues in IRL communication is silly. We give out a lot of information about how we’re feeling with our bodies to those paying attention. I’ll admit it can sound kinda creepy when writing it all out, but for some folks this is all intuitive. For other folks, thinking about this a bit helps with being more at ease in talking with new people, whether platonically or with an eye to something more.
This is going to come off terribly, but do you talk to many people IRL? There’s no game here, just humans being humans.
That said, perhaps not your preferred types of humans, which is perfectly fine. If anything, not engaging people the way I describe here could be a filter for the kind of people you prefer to interact with. Really isn’t anything wrong with that, though others may find it a bit constrictive.
If what you’re doing makes you happy and secure in your relationships with people, then more power to you!
That’s not reading minds though. What was being described are social skills you very likely already have, but are used to applying to non romantic interactions with men.
I have no idea how that is anything like saying common sense is common. That did not address what I said. Someone has failed in some aspect of this communication. Since it may have been me, I’ll try rephrasing.
Do you talk to people you are not romantically interested in sometimes? Are you able to generally guess whether they would be receptive to interacting or not? Could you conceivably guess if a person waiting in a waiting room might be open to chat, versus wants to be left alone?
The point I was driving at is people often behave as though interacting with those they are sexually attracted to is different. While it can be in some ways, the way you can identify whether someone you’re not sexually attracted to would like to interact can be used with those you are sexually attracted to as well. It’s not mind reading.
If you cannot do these things with people you are not sexually attracted to either, that’s a skill that can be developed, and the issue is not an inability to read women’s (I’m guessing) minds.
Reading minds isn’t a “signal”
I’m sorry but if men and women want equality in their relationships then women need to stop this middle-school behavior.
There are reasons subtlety and body language evolved.
Some men don’t take direct “Not interested. Please leave me alone” well. They’ll call you a [slur, slur] and maybe get violent. But fake laughter and dead-ending the conversation has lead to safer outcomes.
So, yeah, it sucks people can’t be direct and honest, but it’s not just coming out of malice.
Also a lot of the time people don’t really know what they want, or want contradictory things.
I understand the excuses people make to not act like mature adults.
I’m sorry if men were rude to you, them acting like children doesn’t give you a pass.
It’s not acting like children. It’s acting like adults. Most adults use subtlety for a variety of reasons. Personal safety and letting someone down gently are just two that come to mind.
You can want everyone to have a standard API with nice json output, but that’s just not how humans are. Expecting it is folly.
Giving peolple the wrong “hints” because they are completely subjective is a childish thing to do in place of communication.
My fellow sapient, do you engage with real people in the world? Your position has merit in a “imagine a frictionless, spherical cow for this physics problem” kind of sense, but is absolutely unrelated to the real world of humanity the entire time we’ve existed, and probably going back to earlier primates as well.
I talk to people every day.
It’s not acceptable to hit on people who are trying to do their errands or their jobs.
There are acceptable places to meet people (bars, clubs, dating events)
Do not target women and approach them to try to fuck them in public when they are minding their own buisness please.
Those are true statements, but seem to be a whole other topic from what we were talking about. You were rejecting the ideas of body language and subtlety by saying that’s asking for mind reading and childish.
People can not read body language, you shouldn’t assume anything based on body language ever.
I bet you’re one of those people who also push the definitons of consent and equality.
Im done giving you attention troll. I hope no woman has to suffer you stalking and trying to fuck them in public when they are just trying to exist.
If you don’t mind me asking, how is this reading minds? This is watching for behavioural cues, which lend some evidence of interest/disinterest. Men exhibit similar cues as well - think about the guy sitting at the bar, facing the interior with a grin looking about, versus the guy hunched over with a scowl counting the bubbles in his beer. Unless you’re moved by pathos to clink scowling guy’s glass, who seems more approachable?
Will admit there are folks who see a single behavioural cue and immediately jump to “They want to jump my bones”/“They wish me and my family were dead”, which is dumb. What I’m talking about is more “Oh, looks like they may be open to chat with someone, go say hi”, then noting if that impression stays or dissipates on fresh evidence. Again, the biggest problem I’ve heard of is people, but particularly women approached by men in a social setting, not wanting to tell the approaching party to fuck off (politely or otherwise) because of a perceived or real threat of violence. But this feeling often comes across pretty clearly in body language - if you’re a decent person, reading those cues and and exiting gracefully just makes sense.
Discounting non-verbal cues in IRL communication is silly. We give out a lot of information about how we’re feeling with our bodies to those paying attention. I’ll admit it can sound kinda creepy when writing it all out, but for some folks this is all intuitive. For other folks, thinking about this a bit helps with being more at ease in talking with new people, whether platonically or with an eye to something more.
Adults use their words to communicate.
Children play games.
This is going to come off terribly, but do you talk to many people IRL? There’s no game here, just humans being humans.
That said, perhaps not your preferred types of humans, which is perfectly fine. If anything, not engaging people the way I describe here could be a filter for the kind of people you prefer to interact with. Really isn’t anything wrong with that, though others may find it a bit constrictive.
If what you’re doing makes you happy and secure in your relationships with people, then more power to you!
No why the fuck would I talk to random people?
And yes, charades is a game, it’s not flirting.
People don’t want to be approached in public unless they are boomers or older.
Maybe you should ease up on giving advice and making proclamations on how to talk to random people then
That is how you talk to people.
You don’t unless they make it clear they want to be bothered.
Sure if you are in a bar or a club that’s expected, but anywhere else please ffs don’t approach women.
What is how you talk to people?
Also I’m not sure how to square “unless they make it clear they want to be bothered” with your rejection of body language and subtlety.
If a woman wants to talk to you they will.
Don’t try to fuck women in public.
Don’t approach them.
It’s as simple as that.
That’s not reading minds though. What was being described are social skills you very likely already have, but are used to applying to non romantic interactions with men.
This is like saying common sense is common.
It isn’t. And we can’t expect people to know everything so sometimes we have to use words.
I have no idea how that is anything like saying common sense is common. That did not address what I said. Someone has failed in some aspect of this communication. Since it may have been me, I’ll try rephrasing.
Do you talk to people you are not romantically interested in sometimes? Are you able to generally guess whether they would be receptive to interacting or not? Could you conceivably guess if a person waiting in a waiting room might be open to chat, versus wants to be left alone?
The point I was driving at is people often behave as though interacting with those they are sexually attracted to is different. While it can be in some ways, the way you can identify whether someone you’re not sexually attracted to would like to interact can be used with those you are sexually attracted to as well. It’s not mind reading.
If you cannot do these things with people you are not sexually attracted to either, that’s a skill that can be developed, and the issue is not an inability to read women’s (I’m guessing) minds.
Nah these are child games and should be left in middle school.
Tell me how you feel I’m not a fucking mind reader.
Could you see how I might perceive that reply to have failed to engage with anything I said?