In my experience only 20% of baristas are in fact skilled.
Calling any labor unskilled is fraternizing with the weapons of the enemy, we don’t need it. Our greatest weapon is class consciousness and worker solidarity.
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There is no such thing as unskilled work
Hey now, don’t buy management long
Everytime unskilled work is mentioned, someone feels the need to comment that ackchually all work requires skill.
Unskilled work means you don’t need prior experience or specific education to apply. You will be trained on the job.
Unskilled work means you don’t need prior experience or specific education to apply.
It means whatever the employers want it to mean. But anyone who has worked anywhere for a significant length of time knows the value experience brings in a role.
Whether you’re packing boxes or picking fruit or doing brain surgery, the speed and accuracy of your work is predicated on experience. Not something you get through a crash course or a certificate. You have to do the work to learn the work in every field.
That’s what makes “unskilled” labor a myth.
So installing HVAC systems is unskilled work? I didn’t have any prior experience or education when I got a job doing that.
And you were able to work on your own with less than a weeks worth of OJT?
And framing labor this way totally disregars the time commitment. Which should be a thriving wage for any hob that requires 40hrs/week
I think the spelling in this reply actually tells the story
Disappointed in your lack of punctuation. It really speaks to your absence of moral character.
How could you say that? This is landlord erasure
I believe they prefer to be called “persons of land”. /s
That’s not work.
You’re right. It goes beyond work. It’s a service to humanity.
if only
I have been in an argument with a landlord before. They were arguing that it was a real job because of all the paperwork. I was just like… bruh
Paperwork is only a job if you’re a lawyer or an accountant.
Well, there’s Amazon packing, where they recently sent me three cards in an A3 by 4" box. Ain’t no way you could call that “skilled”.
Who is complaining about unskilled workers?
Anyone who doesn’t think they should get a decent wage.
Who is thinking that people shouldn’t get a decent wage?
Thinking about it makes the argument really really poor. If I’m a construction worker who spent decades perfecting my skills so I get promoted to management, now I have to hire someone else to take my previous position. The whole point of paying someone to do something should be because your time is better spent doing something else. So a very skilled person SHOULD be paying someone to get coffee. So the whole concept falls apart.
If I’m a construction worker who spent decades perfecting my skills so I get promoted to management
Tell me you’ve never worked construction without telling me you’ve never worked construction.
Or management, for that matter. You’ll get managers straight out of college overseeing career specialists on the verge of retirement.
This is based on the fallacy that people deserve to be rich because they are more skilled and work harder. In most cases this is not true. Most just use money to make more money. They don’t actually produce anything useful for humanity.
You understand that is a skill in and of itself. Which is why so many day traders end up going bankrupt. To be able to actually consistently make money off of money isn’t magical, it doesn’t happen automatically. If it did everyone would be far wealthier.
Which is why so many day traders end up going bankrupt.
Well yeah, so do most of the gamblers, but some miraculously don’t, but we don’t believe that playing rouletts is a skill now. Incidentally, moat of the people who consistently gamble but don’t go bankrupt are people who have more money than it’s possible to lose in one sitting.
Playing stonks follows exactly the same logic.Actually you make a great point. Which is why there’s professional poker, where gamblers can literally make a living. Understanding the difference between being a professional and being able to consistently make money and where to go to do it, is part of the skill I’m talking about. Thanks!
Not understanding the difference between the game of skill and the game of chance is exactly the grasp on reality that I expected from you based on this thread.
No, your not understanding that games of skill or chance are both gambling. Being able to identify the difference makes you a gambler who can live off his gambling or one who will go broke. Same trick in investing.
Which is why so many day traders end up going bankrupt.
Bankruptcy is a tool for discharging debt, not a metric for business failure.
You don’t bother declaring bankruptcy unless you have creditors. If you’re an unsuccessful day trader, nobody is lending you much money to begin with.
To be able to actually consistently make money off of money isn’t magical, it doesn’t happen automatically
Ever heard of interest? Savings accounts?
Say you just have 100 million sitting in a bank account. The average national savings account interest rate (and you’d get a much better one with 100 million) is 0.42 APY.
So you’d get $420,000 in interest every year.
If it did everyone would be far wealthier.
No, the rich would be richer. It’s expensive to make money, but very simple if you have a lot of it. Those without the capacity will keep getting poorer. You can shift the margins by taking more risks, obviously, but you can just make moneys for free when you already have enough for everything you need.
And hmm how is the trend going?
Oh, right.
The average national savings account interest rate (and you’d get a much better one with 100 million) is 0.42 APY.
Treasury Notes are 10x that rate. This mostly just illustrates how scammy and cheap your average bank has grown.
Yeah, my point here being that even with the puniest of interest rates, you’d still make more than enough just off the interest to live somewhat comfortably. And in reality, you’d make millions and you’d have so much you could risk a little of it while still having those safe investments yielding all the time.
Sure they increased their money during the pandemic. People were acting like idiots buying homes and goods when they really really shouldn’t have. It’s also true the rich prey on this. Go try to get 100 million in an interest bank account and see what happens, it’s actually harder to leave that kind of money in interest accounts because of how FINRA regulations work. Your money would literally not be insured. You wouldn’t know these things because you just hear other poor people talk about the rich and not the actual rich.
Thus, the real crux of the problem. The poor don’t even understand well enough what’s happening to make a good argument. Between the wanna be rich poor people who talk about unskilled labor as if you just need to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and the poor who hate the rich, no one actually understands how it all works. And it all WORKS BECAUSE you don’t understand. If the poor didn’t respond the way they did during the pandemic, the rich wouldn’t have been able to hoover up all their money. Who’s taking the 22% loans, who’s buying houses they can’t afford on 30+ year mortgages at 8%. All of those actions make the rich richer. You want to stop the rich? Stop wasting your money. But even if you can, the rest won’t and the money will keep funneling up. Thus the real problem. But no one wants to change their life style. Instead they’ll go out and buy expensive handbags and other luxury items on lay away. You can’t stop the rich as long as everyone participates in capitalism.
A lot of words for saying “you’re right that one can very safely invest that kind of money and thus I was wrong in saying money doesn’t just generate money, when it very literally does”.
“I pointed a gun at a guy and asked to fuck him in the arse and he just seemed to agree without question. That doesn’t make me a rapist, it makes him a slut.”
Honestly I couldn’t come up with more hilarious victim blaming if I tried. 5/5 for trolling as a deeply brainwashed libertarian fucknut.
The problem is there is no safe way to invest that kind of money. If there was a purely safe way to invest everyone would be a millionaire. The savings account thing you mentioned is literally only for poor people, to give them a leg up and a small increasing investment for the purpose of teaching people the value of investment. You’ve created a strawman and keep smacking it.
If there was a purely safe way to invest everyone would be a millionaire.
No, they wouldn’t, because investing requires you to have something to invest.
I don’t understand why youre fighting against very obvious facts. Money makes money.
Quite literally. You’re pretending as if it wouldn’t be safe slopping 100 mil into a Swiss bank account, given you’re not American and that 100 million was rightfully yours.
“You’ve created a strawman”. No need, honestly. Your trying to argue that it’s not incredibly easy to generate passive income for life if had a 100 million to invest.
That’s just patently untrue.
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I genuinely do not understand what your talking about. Elaborate?
My bad I was on mobile that was meant for another and I just clicked the wrong reply from notifications. Whops
You’re missing the point. I don’t think most people have a problem saying there are different levels of skill based employment. Does designing a skyscraper take more skill than managing the lunch rush at a McDonald’s? Probably, but by saying working in fast food is an unskilled trade is propaganda to keep wages for those jobs low.
There is a definite skill for handling noon at a McDonald’s. Maybe it’s different than doing high level math for engineering but it’s not unskilled.
That’s where the issue is for most people that don’t like the punching down at “unskilled workers”
This is the same argument I have with my parents when they say that “unskilled workers” have jobs and not careers. And they use that as a justification for not paying them a living wage, “it’s not supposed to be a job forever” is usually the answer I get.
If you contribute 40 hours of labor to the country’s GDP, you should expect to be able to have shelter, food and medical care. That’s not asking a lot.
Creating a class of full time employees below that basic level is disgusting.
Does designing a skyscraper take more skill than managing the lunch rush at a McDonald’s?
I feel like it’d honestly be hard to compare, because it’s such a vastly different skillset/task.
It’s like the differences between writing a technical manual and wrangling a clowder of cats on crack.
With enough education, care and time, anyone could probably achieve the first (even if you suck at it, you can just do it again until it’s acceptable, there’s no rush), but even attempting the second takes a certain…je ne sais quoi.
If you contribute 40 hours of labor to the country’s GDP, you should expect to be able to have shelter, food and medical care. That’s not asking a lot.
That’s 1000% true, but that doesn’t change the fact that there are jobs you can do from walking in off the street with an hour or two of training, and there are jobs that you need more training/background/skills to do.
All full time work should provide enough for a basic standard of living. But arguing that there isn’t a difference in required skill between stocking shelves in an Amazon warehouse and say, diagnosing and treating cancer is absurd.
That’s going to significantly undermine your argument with a lot of people.
As far as your parents go, historically a lot of those jobs were populated primarily by high school students or people trying to make some side cash, and it wasn’t as hard to find employment in a more stable “career” job. The economy worked in a way where having dead end “starter” jobs still “worked”.
They just probably aren’t as aware of the fact that more and more people are getting stuck in those jobs due to no fault of their own. The idea is truly and utterly alien to them if they haven’t had to navigate job hunting since they started their “career” job.
The idea that people who didn’t make poor life choices are trying to survive off working at McDonalds doesn’t mesh with their understanding of how the world works. The idea that someone working at Walmart full time can’t afford to live without government assistance doesn’t seem real.
The last time they had to directly deal with that sort of stuff, no one was trying to survive that way because you could much more easily move to a job you could survive on if you just put in a small amount of effort. It might have been another shitty job, but options were there if you just looked. Not too long ago you could survive off Walmart.
All you can really do is to keep insisting that times have changed. Jobs aren’t just waiting for someone to ask to speak to the manager, and pay has not kept pace with costs of stuff increasing.
Trying to argue that a fry cook deserves to be paid as much as a skilled position will always be a non-starter.
That’s just not true. Resources are split based on value of work regardless of the actual skill involved. The whole unskilled labor argument is nonsense to begin with as you point out, everything is a skill. If any rich person is complaining about unskilled labor, I’d assume they’re complaining that the skill of the employee doesn’t produce the results required so the person is unskilled, not that the job itself is unskilled. For example, a rich person complaining that the unskilled labor at McDonald’s isn’t a complaint that the job requires no skill, just that either the company didn’t train the person right or the person is unable to attain the skills necessary. After all, if they did everything properly, they wouldn’t be complaining about unskilled labor to begin with.
Obviously, that isn’t going to stand true for every instance of unskilled labor. But what it seems to me is that you’re confusing the rich with the poor. People like your parents complain about unskilled labor because they don’t understand what the rich are saying. I see that a lot. But that’s like using people who don’t understand rocket science complaining about solar flares affecting rocket ships. It’s a massive misunderstanding between the scientists who are talking about solar flares and the common man who doesn’t understand.
The mere continued use of the phrase “unskilled work” is undermining your stance. No work is unskilled.
Did you read what I wrote? I said when applying the term unskilled labor, it is applied to those who literally don’t have the skill and screwed up the product. Not that there’s work that doesn’t require skill. Or are you just trolling?
