turk here, baklava has to have the right amount of syrup. too much and it’s a disgusting sweet mess, just right and it’s a delightful flaky , pistachio topped treat
There’s a market here that sells boxed baklava from turkey, and it’s good. Too sweet for me. But the Greek Orthodox church nearby makes and sells baklava for raising money and during Greek fest, and it’s absolutely incredible. I always assumed I just didn’t care for Turkish baklava but liked Greek. After your comment, I’m wondering if it’s a boxed vs homemade dynamic I’m tuning into.
I think it’s a mix of staleness and philo dough quality. The imported turkish stuff has to be made, packaged, transported etc , it gets cooled, whatever and takes ages to get to you. Meanwhile the dough is getting stale and absorbing too much of the syrup, so it becomes lower quality. Also, as you point out, it’s mass produced.
Also, the homemade greek stuff probably starts out with higher quality philo dough, and is made fresh that morning.
Not to say the greeks, armenians , syrians or whatevers don’t have the capacity to make better baklava, I’m sure they all have great chefs.
Greek baklava also is typically made with butter and walnuts, whereas Turkish baklava is with pistachios and oil.
All that said, it’s all part of the Eastern Mediterranean cultural continuum, it’s all one thing and the flag you put on it matters less and less the more you learn about it.
part of the Eastern Mediterranean cultural continuum
this sounds like a great diplomatic way of phrasing the foods that have no specific origin during the era of the ottoman empire. I mean, some things are recent enough to be labelled turkish, or at least turkic, but others are uncertain enough to deserve this moniker.
I’ll tell you one thing though… none of that food is german, no matter what the walking Berliners will tell you about Döner Kebap.
I honestly think the continuum existed before the Ottomans. Take the Mediterannean and start mixing in everything from Persians, Armenians and Arabs to Romans, Slavs and Greeks. Everything is related to everything else and has a history from 3000BC and roots from Spain to Mongolia. Take a greco-roman cake, add persian confectionaries and let it marinate in the Ottoman empire, and presto a new thing.
Disclaimer : do not learn to make baklava from scratch, you will go mad. It’s up there with Sarma and Mantı as one of the most labor intensive parts of turkish cuisine.
I’ve never heard of Manti, but I’m gonna have to seek that out!
Sarma, on the other hand, I make at least 7 or 8 times a year. We call them dolma, or just stuffed grape leaves. Before my mom ended up bedridden, she and I would have dolma rolling nights, where we’d sit and roll the grape leaves for hours and make an enormous batch of them. I’m kinda shitty at it, and they turn out. Serviceable at best. My mom, though, she rolls them things like she’s been doing it her whole life. Each one perfect. But she grew up rolling joints in the 70s, so I guess the skill translated! Lol
Oh, no, it was entirely the ganja. Haha. Her mom never had a stuffed grape leaf, I’m fairly certain. Her family is mainly English, on both sides. Some Native American through Mama’s maternal grandmother. My dad’s family is mostly German, some Ashkenazi, and Nordic.
Mama grew up in South Carolina, but I grew up in a big coastal city (Virginia Beach) and we discovered through the incredible restaurants that we love food, especially food from the middle east, Mediterranean, India, and other places. Then we moved to Tennessee, where good food comes to die, so we had to learn to make everything ourselves.
Called a few of our favorite restaurants back home that we were on pretty familiar terms with the folks that owned them and begged them for their recipes, combined that with YouTube channels speaking in languages we didn’t understand, and got pretty good at making great good. I am particularly proud of my Lebanese Shish Taouk, and toum. Though, no one eats much of the toum besides me. I love that stuff, and can eat it with a spoon if I don’t have plans on being near other humans for a while. Haha
that sounds awesome! It’s sad what happened to your mother, but time affects us all.
Maybe you could give mantı a go, you might have the dexterity and patience to do it and it might be a fun experience for you, especially if you share it with your mom afterwards or spend some time with her as you make the mantı.
you guys seem very cultured, thank you for sharing.
turk here, baklava has to have the right amount of syrup. too much and it’s a disgusting sweet mess, just right and it’s a delightful flaky , pistachio topped treat
There’s a market here that sells boxed baklava from turkey, and it’s good. Too sweet for me. But the Greek Orthodox church nearby makes and sells baklava for raising money and during Greek fest, and it’s absolutely incredible. I always assumed I just didn’t care for Turkish baklava but liked Greek. After your comment, I’m wondering if it’s a boxed vs homemade dynamic I’m tuning into.
I think it’s a mix of staleness and philo dough quality. The imported turkish stuff has to be made, packaged, transported etc , it gets cooled, whatever and takes ages to get to you. Meanwhile the dough is getting stale and absorbing too much of the syrup, so it becomes lower quality. Also, as you point out, it’s mass produced.
Also, the homemade greek stuff probably starts out with higher quality philo dough, and is made fresh that morning.
Not to say the greeks, armenians , syrians or whatevers don’t have the capacity to make better baklava, I’m sure they all have great chefs.
Greek baklava also is typically made with butter and walnuts, whereas Turkish baklava is with pistachios and oil.
All that said, it’s all part of the Eastern Mediterranean cultural continuum, it’s all one thing and the flag you put on it matters less and less the more you learn about it.
this sounds like a great diplomatic way of phrasing the foods that have no specific origin during the era of the ottoman empire. I mean, some things are recent enough to be labelled turkish, or at least turkic, but others are uncertain enough to deserve this moniker.
I’ll tell you one thing though… none of that food is german, no matter what the walking Berliners will tell you about Döner Kebap.
I honestly think the continuum existed before the Ottomans. Take the Mediterannean and start mixing in everything from Persians, Armenians and Arabs to Romans, Slavs and Greeks. Everything is related to everything else and has a history from 3000BC and roots from Spain to Mongolia. Take a greco-roman cake, add persian confectionaries and let it marinate in the Ottoman empire, and presto a new thing.
Keep talking to me…
Those are all really fair points. I wish I lived somewhere where people made good food, but alas, I have to wait for church bake sales lol
You could learn to make your own! :D
Disclaimer : do not learn to make baklava from scratch, you will go mad. It’s up there with Sarma and Mantı as one of the most labor intensive parts of turkish cuisine.
I’ve never heard of Manti, but I’m gonna have to seek that out!
Sarma, on the other hand, I make at least 7 or 8 times a year. We call them dolma, or just stuffed grape leaves. Before my mom ended up bedridden, she and I would have dolma rolling nights, where we’d sit and roll the grape leaves for hours and make an enormous batch of them. I’m kinda shitty at it, and they turn out. Serviceable at best. My mom, though, she rolls them things like she’s been doing it her whole life. Each one perfect. But she grew up rolling joints in the 70s, so I guess the skill translated! Lol
I’m sure she learnt from your grandma or one of your aunts, not just smoking weed :P
Whhat kind of heritage do you have to have this happen, greek, armenian , slavic, arabaic or something else?
Oh, no, it was entirely the ganja. Haha. Her mom never had a stuffed grape leaf, I’m fairly certain. Her family is mainly English, on both sides. Some Native American through Mama’s maternal grandmother. My dad’s family is mostly German, some Ashkenazi, and Nordic.
Mama grew up in South Carolina, but I grew up in a big coastal city (Virginia Beach) and we discovered through the incredible restaurants that we love food, especially food from the middle east, Mediterranean, India, and other places. Then we moved to Tennessee, where good food comes to die, so we had to learn to make everything ourselves.
Called a few of our favorite restaurants back home that we were on pretty familiar terms with the folks that owned them and begged them for their recipes, combined that with YouTube channels speaking in languages we didn’t understand, and got pretty good at making great good. I am particularly proud of my Lebanese Shish Taouk, and toum. Though, no one eats much of the toum besides me. I love that stuff, and can eat it with a spoon if I don’t have plans on being near other humans for a while. Haha
that sounds awesome! It’s sad what happened to your mother, but time affects us all.
Maybe you could give mantı a go, you might have the dexterity and patience to do it and it might be a fun experience for you, especially if you share it with your mom afterwards or spend some time with her as you make the mantı.
you guys seem very cultured, thank you for sharing.