• ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml
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    2 years ago

    America is a white-supremacist country.

    I know that sounds controversial, but that’s the ideals of the president elect of the country, who won the popularity vote.

    • Chloé 🥕@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      2 years ago

      the USA (and canada, and australia, and new zealand, and many more) are settler colonial states that were born out of mass genocide dictated by white supremacist rhetoric.

      these states are white supremacist to their core

    • GarbageShootAlt2@lemmy.ml
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      2 years ago

      It was still a white supremacist country under Biden and all previous Presidents and it would have been so under Kamala. This isn’t something that gets changed by elections.

      • ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml
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        2 years ago

        That’s true, but that wasn’t my point. My point was that the majority of the population voted for someone who does have white-supremacist ideals - whereas Biden and Kamala do not.

        • GarbageShootAlt2@lemmy.ml
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          2 years ago

          That’s a silly argument. Biden (aside from being an unrepentant segregationist!) acted as an active agent of white supremacy, and Kamala would have too, just like every President has.

          As an aside, it wasn’t the majority of the population. It wasn’t even the majority of the voting-eligible population. It was like a little over a quarter, I think.

    • comfy@lemmy.ml
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      2 years ago

      America, the state, is white-supremacist and has been since birth. Absolutely. Although that’s not good logic for explaining how. I doubt most voters for Trump did so because of his or their racist views, there were plenty of other policies (sorry, ideas and themes) Trump platformed on that appealed to them.

      The amount of Democrat supporters again surprised at how non-whites can possibly vote for Trump on a non-trivial scale is a testament to why it’s important to understand voting patterns beyond race ideology, beyond “Trump is a disgusting racist, only a white supremacist would vote for them.”, especially if you’re on the ground trying to organize your community to create the positive changes neither candidate can offer.

  • jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
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    2 years ago

    Yes. And no one’s going to do anything about it.

    Most people are too lazy and thoughtless to stop using it .

    The engineers that work there certainly aren’t going to stage a coup.

    And no one’s going to just do violence to Musk.

  • JBrickelt963
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    6 months ago

    By observing the popularity curve of Twitter or more precisely the monthly attendance of users falling below the attendance of sites themselves in decline is only maintained under artificial respirator like Dailymotion (first under the supervision of Orange through the government of the era and Arnaud Montbourg) and bought by the Bolloré Group (managed by a far-right Catholic ideologue) we can conclude that indeed the good or common space" has shifted to other platforms.

    However, this in no way assumes that Twitter must and will remain a “common good” if alternative solutions are at hand like Mastodon or Bluesky.

    Knowing that setting up a Bluesky “instance” requires more financial/material resources to create a decentralized relationship, and that Mastodon only needs a server as well as a sufficiently large user data storage area to shelter the estimated number, we can easily highlight which of the 2 solutions is easier to implement by a so-called minority to avoid othersowners’ houses drift under the influence of censorship or the invisibility of these as certain Mastodon instances can do when there is control of a few people over others.

    This is the very principle of Mastodon and the “ActivityPub network” (linked to the protocol of the same name) The Fediverse is based on trust when this trust no longer meets the criteria which constitute it then the users can choose to easily create your own “home” to communicate with others or look for another truly/fairly trustworthy instance.

    And if there are levers, it is up to everyone to participate in improving it.

    Nevertheless, visibility outside of the choice of federation or not with other instances does not hinder theoretical visibility. For the rest, there are safe places that are comparatively visible either by their evocative domain name or by their terms of use.

    However, we should not assume that an entire community should have a single instance dedicated to it, because, as many Mastodons users point out, as you do in this article, such a large instance (such as Mastodon.social, for example) can easily disconnect a large number of users at the same time if it is defederated/blocked.

    However, it must be acknowledged that moderation is not always optimal because it is based on three principles. The first is trust and self-regulation, particularly through the founding principle of the Fediverse and the spirit of goodwill that was intended from the outset. The second is decentralized moderation—not a lack of rigor, but based on the same principle as decentralization—with smaller instances in principle, meaning fewer people to monitor for each moderation group, but also financial precariousness and limited human time, which can lead to stricter moderation.

    This is the third point, which is a double-edged sword. It can confer greater censorship power when the majority of users do not have the skills or time to create their own “home” or find a new home for their public conversation.

    While Mastodon is not perfect, like representative democracy, with clear, effective, and fair rules, it is the least worst solution. And like direct democracy, the platform can always be improved. This is already technically possible with the Fediverse (and the ActivityPub protocol). Even if a minimum of technical skill is required, a simple familiarity with computers may be sufficient for a relatively knowledgeable amateur. Like any good tool, it is a double-edged sword depending on who is in control.

    Without questioning the proven existence of possible violence or discrimination and marginalization of certain people/minorities even on Mastodon and the Fediverse as a whole, the scope for harassment is not exactly the same, and better still, it seeks to curb it by limiting virality through the opaque recommendation algorithms of social networks such as Twitter. By favoring organic recommendations via hashtags. Even quotes can be disabled so as not to give the wrong people ammunition.

    Nevertheless, it is true that both users and administrators can only moderate manually, and this can indeed be time-consuming. This is also why filters exist and why some people seek to set up shared community blocklists to avoid encountering people who have already caused bad experiences such as harassment, abusive language, or—perhaps most problematic—racism.

    And while there is a financial aspect to setting up your own instance, it can be less than what is required for its Bluesky or Twitter equivalent, since a domain name can be found quite easily at a more than reasonable cost. And if it is not accessible to a person from a minority group, it is most often proportionally equal in percentage to that of a cisgender white person. However, the resources required to set up a server that can connect to the Fediverse are subject to the same technical constraints, whether for domain name registration, IP address, etc., as any other website.

    And while creating your own platform is not the only solution, it is by moving communities to safer areas that old chat rooms will either change or reduce their reach because they are blacklisted, closed due to a lack of users, etc., in favor of new hubs. Of course, an effort must be made to increase the effectiveness of moderation without falling into bad censorship, in particular by adjusting human resources but also by increasing community funding.

    As for non-inclusive habits towards people from minority groups, there is no direct intention to harm them, even for people identified as “white,” but rather it is linked to a society that is patriarchal by default and accepted as white. And it is up to these minorities to continue to make us aware of the unconscious mechanisms that we repeat. To deconstruct the prejudices we have. Mastodon is doing its best in this area and is better than nothing. This is more than commendable, despite the eternal problem of a minority being underrepresented and therefore misunderstood due to the low default exposure of the experiences that these individuals may have.

    It goes without saying that as a service gains popularity, it inevitably ends up attracting unsavory characters. I can’t speak about racism as such, nor for people from minority backgrounds, but a good example that is not subject to heated debate (or at least to a much lesser extent) is the wave of spam that many Mastodon servers have had to endure.

    It is therefore a phenomenon that is worth mentioning, thank you for this article, but as you say, the tools are almost all already present on the Fediverse, whether in the founding principles or the material resources. What is undoubtedly missing is more refined, more effective moderation that is (more) attentive to minorities, but above all a change in mentality within our society. And of course, Mastodon can and must be one of the vehicles for this change.

  • Lime Buzz (fae/she)@beehaw.org
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    2 years ago

    So is Mastodon really, well not a site but yeah, a lot of users there are ex 4-channers or still use it and it shows.

    Fedi isn’t really any better.

    • calm.like.a.bomb@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      2 years ago

      I don’t know what instances you roam, but I don’t see any kind of nazi/fascist shit on mine and I really love that. But then again, my instance is about metal music and people usually don’t discuss politics. Also, I’ve blocked and muted everything that relates to trump and us politics. Not that it helps anyone but me.

      • Chloé 🥕@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        2 years ago

        the fascists of the fedi don’t roam free on the wider network, they harass in secret, usually in DMs or “followers only” posts

        there’s also a problem with subtle white supremacy, where Black people (and other POC, but mostly Black people) will get piles and piles of harassment that’s totally unrelated to being Black you see, of course, but its not happening to white people for some bizarre reason!! (see also: the many cases involving TheBadSpace where any Black person who was ever so slightly in favor of Ro and their work would get a fuckton of harassment)

        (the last one is present on pretty much all social media, be it pre-Musk Twitter, Bluesky or Tumblr, but im told that it’s especially bad on the fedi)

      • Lime Buzz (fae/she)@beehaw.org
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        2 years ago

        Thankfully all the instances we’re on block heavily but there are some well known bad actors who are white supremacists and a lot of reply guys, JAQ etc people too, I’ve seen quite a few who have slipped through the cracks before.

        Yeah, if your instances doesn’t discuss politics and you don’t follow anyone outside of music circles or at least don’t open anything with a political CW you likely won’t ever see it, but it’s there.

    • comfy@lemmy.ml
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      2 years ago

      ‘ex-4chan users’ isn’t really an important criteria, especially if you’re including the people posting there before 2016. In fact, some hobby boards like /co/, /mu/ and /lit/ were notoriously left-wing. “Ex-” usually means the ones who were smart enough to leave.

      But furthermore, calling Mastodon a white supremacist site is just funny. Might as well be saying that about Lemmy.

      • Lime Buzz (fae/she)@beehaw.org
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        2 years ago

        Also, ex- 4channers and fascists we have found don’t necessrily give up the language or ideas from it once they have left, no matter how ‘smart’ they were.

        Both people online and offline we have met that were fash in some way have a certain energy and way of speaking to them that we find disgusting and offputting a lot of the time.

        • comfy@lemmy.ml
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          2 years ago

          Those articles are describing a very different thing. Jon is not saying (or supporting your implied claim that) Mastodon is a white supremacist service, let alone a white-supremacist community. In fact, for both Lemmy and Mastodon, they praise the responses of staff to racist content. As far as I can tell, the closest is them saying that their broader society is white supremacist and that has systematic implications on Mastodon which typical users can be ignorant or dismissive of.

    • theshatterstone54@feddit.uk
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      2 years ago

      CTT claims that Bluesky is great, but I’m just not into that type of social media so while I’m on Mastodon, I don’t actually use it.

  • NomenCumLitteris@lemmy.ml
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    2 years ago

    Freedom of speech is good. White supremacists or any other group ideological supporters will always find a way to communicate and share their message, regardless of the century, technology, or censorship. Frankly, doing this openly on X/Twitter versus some obscure unknown forum or encrypted platforn is a positive. Social media as a whole is susceptible to ideological campaigns from groups and other countries, not just X/Twitter.

    • rambling_lunatic@sh.itjust.works
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      2 years ago

      Twitter is not a free platform. It actively suppresses the voices of the left and protects the far right.

      I do sincerely support free speech. I think it looks a lot more like the Fediverse than Twitter.

      • natebluehooves@pawb.social
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        2 years ago

        Additionally, fascists need these safe spaces to convince themselves that their opinions are the majority. They don’t feel emboldened to act otherwise.

      • NomenCumLitteris@lemmy.ml
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        2 years ago

        Sure, I don’t object to your statement of Twitter not being a free platform, and I did not claim it was. Conversely, other social media have been also known to suppress the right and protect the left. Social media can “lean” so to speak. They are provately operated companies after all. I value free speech nonetheless.

        • GarbageShootAlt2@lemmy.ml
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          2 years ago

          Conversely, other social media have been also known to suppress the right and protect the left

          Where the hell are these socialist social media sites supposed to be? Are you going to say that it’s Lemmy, like that’s a comparable example?

    • oxjox@lemmy.ml
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      2 years ago

      You are so fucking wrong. I have never understood this logic that because people are doing things out in the open that it’s a good thing. They are popularizing their ideas. More people are exposed to them when they’re out in the open. Had they been operating in some obscure forum, they would lack the advertising of their ideas to others.

      For what possible reason could this be “positive”? So that the rest of us are aware of their first amendment protected hateful ideas? What good does that do anyone? We just elected one of them to be president of the United States. Allowing hate speech to bloom out in the open tempers our reactions and slowly seeps into our minds as propaganda.

      Freedom of speech is, in the US, something that the US Constitution promises will not be restricted by Congress. It is not something any private company is required to protect. I would argue that private companies have a responsibility to its users to ban all hate speech and report substantiated threats to law enforcement.

      • NomenCumLitteris@lemmy.ml
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        2 years ago

        For example, from a US-based perspective, a “positive” is that law enforcement agencies and the thousands of social media monitoring tools they utilize look at Twitter and other big platforms. LEO agencies have had for years the channels to monitor posts and request instantaneously from those companies supplemental information on the user or post that is being investigated. LE will be out of luck if they were attempting to immediately investigate a user on an obscure white supremacist forum hosted in Russia. That website owner and its servers would not be in jurisdiction to respond to that request.

        Also, please see my other reply 1 minute before yours regarding private companies being able to ban, suprress, etc. I agree with you that private companies can run their own ship how they please, whether in the best interests of profit or ideology.

        • oxjox@lemmy.ml
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          2 years ago

          I see you’ve chosen to ignore the point about the influence this has on hundreds of millions of people.

    • comfy@lemmy.ml
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      2 years ago

      Freedom of speech may be great in the abstract, as an ideal, but unfortunately it isn’t very useful when speech platforms are controlled by the owning class. Our speech means little compared to the speech of national TV channels, news outlets and restricted social platforms. The utopian marketplace of ideas becomes a rigged supermarket.

      I highly recommend the book Manufacturing Consent, which explains some core systematic factors which shape the US mass media (also applicable to other countries) into essentially a largely-homogeneous echo chamber without the need for legally censoring opposing speech.

      Frankly, doing this openly on X/Twitter versus some obscure unknown forum or encrypted platforn is a positive.

      Hardly - they’re doing this to spread their message, not to have a good faith discussion and expose themselves to other viewpoints. It’s purely predatory, and removing their platform reduces their impact. Yes, they will always find ways to communicate but they struggle more to find ways to advertise and recruit without public platforms amplifying them.

    • GarbageShootAlt2@lemmy.ml
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      2 years ago

      Rights are not handed to us by God or by Nature, they are legal constructs, created by people. They are not immaculate or immune to criticism or alteration on the basis of what we think would be better for human society. White supremacy must be smashed to its very core, and part of accomplishing that task is making sure it’s as difficult for white supremacists to recruit and congregate as we can possibly make it.

      It’s bizarre idealism to think that opposition to white supremacy will be overcome with no loss of enthusiasm or membership, that any interference actually has zero effect and we’re just better off letting them do what they want.