L’année dernière le sujet a été abordés par @AlexisFR@jlai.lu et je souhaite relancé l’idée de dé-fédérer de cette instance.
Je navigue depuis quelque temps sans bloquer la moindre instances question de simuler un peu l’expérience de quelqu’un qui rejoint le fediverse via l’instance jlai.lu.
Les posts qui apparaissent dans le fil et le comportement de la plupart des usagers de cette instance pollue tout simplement l’expérience Lemmy.
Même sans parler de possible liens avec CCP, Kremlin etc… je pense que, à mon humble avis, leur comportement et leur façons de brigader et de diffamer une opinion qui ne diverge que d’à peine d’un poil de leur courant de penser, va sincèrement à l’encontre de l’état d’esprit de notre communauté sur cette instance.
Je me suis opposé sans vraiment me prononcer l’année dernière à une dé-fédération (étant donné qu’ils ne sont pas francophone et que j’aime bien le drama inter-instances de temps temps) mais leurs prises de positions en permanence ahurissantes et (en pesant mes mots au maximum) d’une flagrante dissonance cognitive je dois dire que trop c’est trop.
Je pense sincèrement que malgré le fait nos intéractions soit assez minimes avec cette instance je pense que sur le long terme leur influence est nocive et que, dans l’idée de garder une certaines sérénité pour les personnes et futures personnes qui utiliseront cette instance, qu’il y ai une dé-fédération de cette instance de la notre.
I’m not saying you’re anti-environmentalists. Plenty of liberals are environmentalists. I’m saying that I’ve seen two users, including a mod, use undefinable words that have one rhetorical purpose. You use a word like “tankie” or an idea like “all my enemies are foreign spies” to set a limit on dissent. I could ask that user what the specific line between a tankie and non-tankie is, but if that answer even makes sense then it sets a firm limit on how radical someone can be. I’m an eco-Marxist, I study it as closely as I can and work practically as one, the books on my shelf are mostly about what I’d consider part of an eco-Marxist critique. I understand environmentalism as a complex intersectional war of liberation. What part of that makes me a tankie versus the acceptable position? If there’s preemptive surrender to power, if some part of that intersectional struggle is unacceptable or some act or idea or theorist is too far, I don’t care how many paintings you’ve splashed with soup today.
Meh, I use tanky to differentiate between leftists and people that cosplay as leftist while excusing genocide and human rights violation whenever it’s their flavor of autocrat doing it, not really as an anti-communist word since nobody uses it like that in the first place.
No, it sets a limit on how much you accept your fellow comrades from being used as a stepping tool by an authoritarian regime/dictator to be able to call yourself “communist”, while ending up in state capitalism anyway.
I may concede that from my years on hexbear, I associate most participants to this kind of communism flavor by default, which may not be your case, but this thread did not really start in good faith, so why would I.
Democrats?
Yes, but not only.
So close to understand my obvious point, you can do it!
Honest question: what do you think of the concept of atrocity propaganda?
When I see the U.S. making claims about one of its enemies doing atrocities, I’m going to be skeptical, because they’ve told that exact sort of lie for the exact same reason plenty of times before.
I know it exists and is pretty common in disinformation and propaganda, which is why I wait for international organizations, independent reporters and numerous testimonies before reaching for conclusions.
I also like to consider that when these are the same people and organizations that are making Israel actions public and asking for genocide recognition, than the ones that are doing the same with the Uyghurs genocide for like a decade or two now, they are not Schrodinger propagandists that act at the same time against and for the interests of the US and its imperialists friends (France included).
When I see people making claims that a genocide is not happening when there is an egregious amount of evidences already, using the shittiest wiki entry I’ve ever seen somewhere in this thread, written by a chinese national from a chinese IP (the edit log is public), with half of the entry having no reference, the other one having chinese state media and youtube videos as source, I’m not only going to be skeptical, but I’ll also consider that you’ll end up with all the other genocide deniers in history. One of your mate cited Zenz as a gotcha when this shit is known since the 50’s and was even a point of contention between the PRC and the Soviets.
Also, as a last note, it doesn’t even make sense that the Uyghur genocide would be used as atrocity propaganda simply because of the fact that nobody in the West cares about chineses, muslims and even less about chinese muslims. What would be the point?
In Kuweit and Iraq, it was used to make direct intervention in the country “acceptable” or even positively viewed by the mass. Here, the goal is what? To have sanctions upon China that would cripple only the western economy?
I’ll end on a personal note tangentially related that is kind of my conclusion for this whole thread:
Seing all of you parading as “true” leftists while spouting the chinese equivalent of hasbara and not even seing the irony in this makes me hate you even more that shitlibs, and that’s even before even considering the history and damage that tankies have done to the worldwide leftist and especially revolutionary movement for the last century.
You’ll take whatever is thrown in front of you that agrees with you as proof that you’re right rather that actually challenging your views, and for what? Licking the boots of yet another authoritarian regime with state capitalism and a history of purging minorities and commonly violating human rights?
The U.N. does not believe there was a genocide in Xinjiang:
Obviously there is room for criticizing China here – credible allegations of torture, ill-treatment, and discrimination should be taken seriously and stopped if those allegations are substantiated. But credible allegations of this nature are on another planet from irrefutable proof of an actual genocide, like we’re seeing in Gaza. The actual report does not describe even allegations of genocide and does not use the word itself.
Why do you disbelieve the U.N. here?
I don’t know about other countries, but I could link to 100 U.S.-based articles in the past few years fearmongering about China. Trump railed against China even before Covid, Covid spawned all sorts of anti-Chinese xenophobia and conspiracy theories, Biden made a big deal out of having the military shoot down a Chinese weather balloon that strayed over the U.S., etc.
China is an enormous economic competitor with nukes that is also communist. It is very much a target of the U.S. empire.
Are you for real?
Did you read the report you linked? Is your argument truly that it’s ok because the word genocide was not employed and it’s just sparkly ethnic cleansing and crime against humanity?
This is not even talking about the forced erasure of the Uyghur by “importation” of Hans chinese in the province and forced marriage that, once again, was known and criticized even by the Soviets since the 50’s.
Yeah, and that’s achieving what exactly? For an alleged ML you’re kind of ignoring the material view of this.
That serves absolutely no purpose for the US, the Xinjiang region provides half of the materials needed for electronics in the world, on which the US economy and power heavily relies on.
“communist” yeah right lol, their flag is red I guess yeah
It’s not even really a target for the US empire since they decided to offshore all their production there. They’re entirely dependent on them, and financing Chinese economical imperialism in Africa and South America indirectly.
Did you? It contains zero allegations of ethnic cleansing, either.
Torturing prisoners – something the vast majority of countries that imprison people do – is a crime against humanity, but there’s a vast gulf between that and genocide. And that’s setting aside the difference between a credible accusation (what the U.N. found in China) and a mountain of irrefutable evidence (what we have in Gaza).
To analogize, you’re basically treating a credible accusation of assault as equivalent to being caught on camera committing multiple homicides. Not the same crime, not the same amount of evidence.
You’re just flat-out wrong, there’s not even any arguing it. Here’s a mountain of fearmongering about China, anyway. I’ll also refer you to the recent presidential and VP debates.
Removed by mod