A Biden administration that vowed to restore Americans’ faith in public health has grown increasingly paralyzed over how to combat the resurgence in vaccine skepticism.

And internally, aides and advisers concede there is no comprehensive plan for countering a movement that’s steadily expanded its influence on the president’s watch.

The rising appeal of anti-vaccine activism has been underscored by Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s insurgent presidential campaign and fueled by prominent factions of the GOP. The mainstreaming of a once-fringe movement has horrified federal health officials, who blame it for seeding dangerous conspiracy theories and bolstering a Covid-era backlash to the nation’s broader public health practices.

But as President Joe Biden ramps up a reelection campaign centered on his vision for a post-pandemic America, there’s little interest among his aides in courting a high-profile vaccine fight — and even less certainty of how to win.

“There’s a real challenge here,” said one senior official who’s worked on the Covid response and was granted anonymity to speak candidly. “But they keep just hoping it’ll go away.”

The White House’s reticence is compounded by legal and practical concerns that have cut off key avenues for repelling the anti-vaccine movement, according to interviews with eight current and former administration officials and others close to the process.

  • Heresy_generator@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    98
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    skepticism

    The media keeps using that word, I do not think it means what they think it means. These people aren’t questioning, they’re not doubtful; they’re convinced. They are certain that their position is the correct one and no amount of new information will change their minds.

    Stop calling this “skepticism”

    • Margot Robbie@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      34
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      It should be called “vaccine cynicism”

      Get your flu and COVID shots this winter, please. Don’t get yourself sick, and don’t get other people sick.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      24
      ·
      1 year ago

      Similarly, I hate the term ‘conspiracy theorist.’ They’re not coming up with theories, they’re making up bullshit. I prefer ‘conspiracy monger.’

    • Trihilis@feddit.nl
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      We call those people wappies where I live. There’s no reasoning with them. No one takes them seriously.

  • ATQ@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    85
    arrow-down
    5
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    There’s a pragmatic solution here:

    1). Make vaccines free. The government pays.

    2). Require vaccines for participation in publicly funded social programs. Schools. Social Security. Etc.

    3). Allow doctor authorized health waivers to number 2.

    4). Wait.

    Most people will get the free vaccines either because they’re reasonable people, because the vaccines are free, or because they want government services. Those that don’t will die earlier. Eventually even stupid people will notice or they’ll be dead.

    • CobblerScholar@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      35
      ·
      1 year ago

      We are creatures of convenience, the way to make people do anything is by making it easier to comply than not to comply.

      • Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        29
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        I got my first COVID vaccine and the booster at a drive-through clinic. My favorite part was the vibe there. We could finally do something to fight to get things back to normal and everybody was stoked.

    • joekar1990@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      27
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      1, 2, & 3 have already been going on for a long time with public schools (immunization records) for the most part. The determined anti vax parents will just find a Dr who will sign a waiver for their child so they don’t need to be vaccinated.

      The problem is so much of anti vax today people will hunker down on their opinion of antivax no matter the truth or information presented to them. It’s the same reason people are supporting trump so much still bc they think it “triggers” the opposition so much.

      I’m not sure if there is a way to turn things around especially when you have multiple prominent media members questioning vaccines that is constantly being parroted.

      At this point anything tried they’ll cry about information being suppressed or why is the government trying so hard to do this must mean bad things.

    • Seraph@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      15
      ·
      1 year ago

      Eventually even stupid people will notice or they’ll be dead.

      Apparently you haven’t been paying attention to this whole COVID deal? And to the other comments point you need to meet a threshold in the population for a vaccine to do what’s intended.

      • Nurse_Robot@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        Tbf, the majority of deaths were in red counties with far higher rates of antivaxers. The stupid people are dying at higher rates, but it’s infuriating that they’re taking smart people who are vaccine ineligible with them.

    • LavaPlanet@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      7
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      And regulate misinformation and disinformation, make social media culpable, they’ll quickly change their tune if $ are at stake. The current model wants engagement, and click bait misinformation does wonders for that.

        • cricket97@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          That’s a pretty genuine question you are sweeping under the rug. Let’s say theoretically a vaccine comes out that is undertested and has some very serious side effects, but still gets the job done. There is an extremely large financial incentive on behalf of Pharmaceutical companies to brush negative effects under the rug. Surely this can’t ever go wrong in the future.

            • cricket97@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              Do you believe there is sufficient regulation in place to prevent the situation described from happening? Do you really want the government policing something as broad as “misinformation”

              • LavaPlanet@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                Do you believe there’s sufficient regulation in place? Genuinely. Is that your fear? Have you tried looking into how a medical study is conducted and the regulations involved? It’s extensive. I’ve looked into it and I’m comfortable the experts are keeping things well regulated. And they create more regulations as they find they’re needed. Sometimes the misinformation isn’t trying to achieve what you think it is, what if the misinformation actually serves to remove the current regulations that work, what if it’s “big pharma” spreading the misinformation so as to cause regulations to be removed, or get a politician to head them they can manipulate to change things for them. Because all those anti vax news execs and politicians are vaccinated.

                • cricket97@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  You’re comfortable, that’s great, you can make your own decisions. A lot of people believe that it’s entirely likely that big pharmaceutical companies are putting profit before human health. It happened with the rise of opiate based painkillers in the past couple decades, so it absolutely does happen, and most people in the system probably thought they were doing the right thing.

                  I for one am not comfortable relying on the government to prevent these monoliths from putting out products that harm people more than they help.

      • renownedballoonthief@lemmygrad.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        Skip the fines entirely and introduce criminal charges for executives of platforms that host anti-vaxx content. Have a complaint about the contents or safety of a vaccine? Feel free to submit your study to a peer-reviewed journal, or shut the fuck up.

    • utopianfiat@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      The antivax base are billionaires though, who can afford to fund their poorer devotees through the worst of their government service martyrdom

    • DaDragon@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      Think about the optics though: if the vaccines are free, WHY are they free?
      The answer that group will give: Bill Gates is subsidizing his microchips so we will all be infected with them.

        • DaDragon@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Because we’re trying to specifically reach those crazy people who reject even the mention of vaccines in a beneficial light. Everyone else is, for the most part, already vaccinated.

          • themeatbridge@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            We should not reach those people, we should mock them. Demoralize them. Make them ashamed of their stupidity. You can’t reason with a crazy person, and attempts to do so legitimize their brand of crazy. They are too dangerous to be ignored, and too far gone to be patient with.

      • Zaktor@sopuli.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        1 year ago

        This is not an optics play, it’s a power play. When mandates were first issued to a lot of cops their conservative asses talked a big game about mass resignations and chaos in the streets, then the due date came and went and most just got vaccinated.

    • massive_bereavement@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      If it’s more convenient for them to do otherwise, you’ll end up with a large base of angry, disenfranchised and unvaccinated people that blames all their problems to the other part of the population.

      Given how much weapon hoarders tend to fit in that category already, I would advocate towards a more soft approach.

    • milicent_bystandr@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Eventually even stupid people will notice or they’ll be dead.

      Doesn’t work. Did early deaths stop all the smokers?

      1. is a problem, because it gives the government more reach to damage people with mistakes. What if the republicans (whom, I assume, you think evil) get in? How much of their policy detail would you like mandated (“for the public interest!”) and would you prefer to be able to say, I believe that’s harmful in my situation, so I chose to do differently. IMHO that sort of requirement that you’ve suggested should be very rare indeed - if ever. And wrt COVID specifically, retrospectively the vaccine results were much more muddy than we’d hoped, rather (in my eyes) proving the point.

      2. I like, and 3) whenever something approaching 2) is implemented.

    • cricket97@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      Yeah forcing mandatory injections is definitely a really cool thing for a government to do. Can’t wait to see where that goes.

    • jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      7
      arrow-down
      9
      ·
      1 year ago
      1. Find prominent anti-vaxxers
      2. Kill them
      3. That’s it you’re done.

      Obviously this isn’t ethical or practical, but it would result in net fewer deaths than doing nothing.

      • Jax@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        1 year ago

        Something something slippery slope something something life starts at conception something something all life has value something something murder bad.

        • HerbalGamer@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          something something life starts at conception something something all life has value

          apart from that I mostly agree

      • cricket97@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        15% of US adults are unvaccinated. No, killing them all would not result in fewer deaths. You are a crazy person.

        • jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          15% of us adults are not prominent anti vaxxers.

          Many people cannot be vaccinated for legitimate reasons. They’re fine.

          It’s the people who go on YouTube or TV or a high office spreading anti vaccine misinformation that need to go in the ground.

          • cricket97@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            You are crazy. Saying stupid shit, even if it’s harmful, is not and should not be punishable by death.

            • jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              Nah. If we just kill them, and a lot of the Republican party, the world gets markedly better.

              We could make a lot of progress on climate change, too!

              They’re bad people who want to kill me and my loved ones. I don’t see why I should treat them as anything less than an existential threat.

  • Hairyblue@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    43
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    Lies on social media kill people. I know of one guy who believed the lies and died of covid.

  • thefartographer@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    36
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    The media: Here’s 72 hours of conspiracy theorists and coverage about how some people are upset with medical experts.

    Also the media: Why are anti-vax conspiracy theories getting so much attention? Here’s why the people trying to fix the problem are at fault and why you should probably hate them.

    Also also the media: Polls show people don’t trust the person we blamed for everything.

    • Ech@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      “The Media” isn’t some unified being.

  • joel_feila@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    21
    ·
    1 year ago

    Of course the government can’t do mych. In the eye of anti vaxxers the government is the problem. In fact any expert or authority will be distrusted because they are an expert or authority figure.

    • Crashumbc@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      1 year ago

      And you have an extremely large and trusted group GOP, actively discrediting vaccines every chance they get.

      • A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        While all being vaccinated, themselves.

        A fact that their supporters gleefully ignore.

        Hell, I heard something earlier in covid about hospitals and clincs setting up private back door entrances so antivaxers could get vaccinated without anyone knowing. Its ridiculous.

  • flipht@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    16
    ·
    1 year ago

    I find the phrasing throughout this highly annoying. It implies that the Biden admin is somehow at fault for 1) people misunderstanding the initial instructions, 2) using that and strawman to undermine that public confidence, and 3) then doubled down on the stupidity seemingly out of spite.

    Simultaneously, these assholes sued and said that the admin over stepped by asking, strongly, for social media to stop overt lies from being spread on their platforms.

    We always blame those trying for not succeeding and give a pass to the idiots operating in bad faith.

  • candle_lighter@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    28
    arrow-down
    12
    ·
    1 year ago

    Maybe if the entire medical industry wasn’t already shady and deplorable enough we wouldn’t have these vaccine skeptics. The biden administration needs to focus on fixing the medical industry if they want these people to trust it.

    • outrageousmatter@lemmy.worldM
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      19
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      Nah, it’s not that it’s that one asshole who decided to write an article about how “Vaccines cause autism.” That’s how the whole anti-vaxxer movement came to be.

    • Silverseren@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      19
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      1 year ago

      Except it has nothing to do with the medical industry being shady or not. The big recent hullaballoo started because Andrew Wakefield lied to everyone. But that largely only affected the crunchy New Age mom types at the time.

      The big explosion of right wing idiots being anti-vaxxers simply has to do with Republican politicians and Fox News repeatedly claiming all scientists and experts on topics are lying (to make money somehow, despite that money never materializing). They started making such anti-science claims with climate change and just expanded it to everything else.

      • A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        11
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        Fox News: “THE VACCINE IS A SCAM! VACCINES DONT WORK!”

        Also Fox News: You can not enter this building unless your are vaccinated.

        • Silverseren@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          And their hosts saying the vaccine is evil and will kill you, while all of them are fully vaccinated. I’ve even seen some of the hosts say they aren’t vaccinated when discussing the topic, despite knowing they 100% are because Fox requires it.

      • candle_lighter@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        What I’m trying to say is that if the medical industry wasn’t filled with liars to begin with then there wouldn’t be as big of an issue.

        If you are already untrustworthy to begin with it’s going to be really easy to convince someone that you did something else wrong.

        I could very easily convince many people that Andrew Tate said that a woman should never be a CEO of a company because it sounds like something he would say and he already says plenty of other sexist shit.

  • Treczoks@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    14
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    I don’t really worry for me (I’m vaccinated), I just worry for those who cannot take the vaccine. Those who don’t want to be protected from a potentially deadly disease, well, they can rot. No issues.

  • malchior@aussie.zone
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    15
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    1 year ago

    In Australia, I’d suggest that anyone that isn’t vaccinated and is hospitalised because of it should pay out of pocket and spare the tax payer. But as usual, they’re all anti vax and anti science/medicine until they’re dying then they’re making a scene in the hospital demanding everyone’s attention.

    • Edgelord_Of_Tomorrow@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      1 year ago

      In Australia we have significant consequences for being antivax.

      You don’t get the childcare subsidy, and good luck finding a childcare that will take your kids.

      You can’t work in healthcare, aged care, childcare and many other sectors and it’s been validated in court that employers can dismiss employees who don’t reasonably get vaccinated when required.

      Additionally, during the pandemic antivaxxers were essentially excluded from pretty much all public life and the Australian public was perfectly content with that. The Australian population was 95% vaccinated at the peak, you can’t get 90% of Australians to agree on anything, if 60% of the population supported not eating shit 40% of the population would start eating shit but we all agreed that antivaxxers can get fucked.

    • 73rdNemesio@infosec.pub
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      “I was alive and breathing before I came here, and now you’re telling me I’m dying and my lungs are filling/filled with fluid?!”

  • jcit878@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    14
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    1 year ago

    eh I spent ages arguing with antivax cookers during the pandemic.

    they are too stupid to reason with, but fun to tease them to ramble their stupid shit, they can’t help but jump on their soapboxes.

    but you never win. fuck em, let em die out

  • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    10
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    We put Typhoid Mary on an island all by herself. If we do it to these fools, at least they’ll have company. May I suggest Guantanamo Bay?

  • x4740N@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    5
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    Deny them access to health services until they get the vaccine and get social services involved if they have any children

    And make them sign a waiver that legally says they they acknowledge that it’s their own fault for not getting vaccinated and we can’t help you if you refuse to get help

  • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    5
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    Once more Republicans twiddle their thumbs as right wing conspiracy needlessly kills their base. It seems they’ve learned nothing at all, which I suppose shouldn’t be a surprise.

  • T0rrent01@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    5
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    1 year ago

    The easiest and most effective solution would be to just get Facebook, Reddit, and Twitter/X to crack down harder on misinformation.

    Optimally, there should even be a sort of “social reputation ranking” system in place to disincentivize online misinformation and hate speech by tying it to real-life ramifications. We sort of already have something like that for job applications, and I’m proud of that, but if we could extend the enforcement and implementation of this kind of thing to, say, transportation, real estate, or banking, that would certainly be a commendable step in the right direction. Ranted about the mask and vaccine mandates in 2020? Good luck buying that car.

    Too bad an increasing and worrisome number of these platforms are being owned by right-wing shrinks. Heil Spez and Heil Musk.

    • Aghast@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      I know the CCP in China is way ahead of you. They already have a social credit system. You wanted a passport? Maybe you shouldn’t have spoken out against government policy.

      It doesn’t sound authoritarian at all /s