I said a while back that I was gonna change my name due to my obscene displeasure with the final season but… nah. I’m Stamets. I love my lil gay boy and I love his lil gay family and I love the ship with the weirdly long nacelles.
LD being canon takes away some of the sting of Disco being canon. Since it’s so far in the future the last 3 seasons can also easily be ignored.
As it should be.
Cartoons can’t be, simple fact.
This is false.
LD directly crossed over with SNW, so if LD isn’t canon then neither is SNW.
Prodigy is brilliant so if it’s not canon what’s the point?
Personally, I just look at all new shows as their own thing and only care if the canon is consistent within each show.
I just can’t reconcile SNW bridge vs OS bridge. So it’s a multiverse or whatever. Who cares? It’s not like keeping canon consistent was that important to the old shows.
Whatever happened with those brain slugs in TNG S1??
It’s a simple fact.
If that’s your head canon go for it. Fact is though the animated works are just as canon as any of live action works.
As weird as it sounds, it’s like I can’t accept it’s “real” because it’s animated, despite the fact it’s all fiction.
Lol. So not a fact.
No, not at all. Simple fact.
Bees. Bears. Battlestar Galactica.
But you can accept the fact that the TV shows are “real” even though they’re just pixels on a screen changing colour? The fact that you can’t step through the screen and walk around the Enterprise because it’s actually just a sound stage in Toronto is completely fine with you, but the moment someone drew the Enterprise instead of building it out of plywood and furniture they bought at Structube, that’s when you drew the line and declared “No! No more! I will accept God like beings who alter reality at a snap of their fingers, but this, this I will not stand for!”?
Because buddy, let me tell you, that’s a really, really weird hill to die on.
Yeah, I already acknowledged it was a little weird. Nevertheless, I am making my last stand here, on this non-existent hill. My brain can suspend disbelief for either, but apparently not within the same narrative universe. Is that called a digesis, or is that something else?
All Star Trek live-action television series and films are and always have been generally considered part of the canon,[2] while Star Trek: Lower Decks and Star Trek: Prodigy are both fully accepted as canonical as well.
Here’s my question, LDS makes direct references to TAS, does that have some transitive property magic that makes TAS canon or at least partly canon?
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Star Trek Latter Day Saints
Simple fact.
So a factors just your opinion right. And therefore not a fact
Stamets is great. I love him.
I love a LOT of the characters on discovery, but I just found the story arcs it ended up telling very… Overblown.
Did the disco really have to save the literal galaxy every season? And skip across time so it could be placed into a pivotal role in every era?
Not a single time, not once, did the disco feel like just another ship in the fleet. It was always THE ship.
Season one is still the best IMO, with the disco being a secret research program hijacked by Lorca for his own purposes. The story felt right. But then the ship and crew just kept being extraordinary not just every season, but in every tiny moment.
I really love all the worldbuilding in Trek, but in disco that always played second fiddle to whatever crisis was going on, which the disco would then inevitably resolve. It was yawn-inducing to me.
Even as I adored lots of the small stuff the series did with the style, characters, and world.
Like Stamets!
Your comments put into words how I felt about the show. It was one major calamity after another. I might go back and finish because of Stamets, Culber (love Wilson Cruz), and everyone else.
I do like Strange New Worlds a lot. It is less frenetic
SNW has landed much more solidly for me, as well. I really hope it continues.
The most stinging part is Prodigy, the literal kid’s show, takes a similar story arc and doesn’t make it all about their special magic research ship.
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Maybe I can help you understand a bit where viewers like me are me coming from. I do see where people who really enjoy the show get it from, as they usually like it for the same reasons I do, but the stuff that for me kick me out of my immersion, just doesn’t for them.
How is any of that second fiddle when every bit of that expansion was the driving force of each season?
I mean, that stuff is the reason I like a lot of Discovery.
But world-building and character development isn’t just “going nuts” with expansion and imagination. All of that stuff, which there is a lot of, didn’t feel properly thought out and planned to me. It was a barrage of ideas, very few of which landed for me. I can’t even pull examples out of my head because it just didn’t stay with me.
You point out some of the good ones, and that’s the stuff I’m still begging for more of.
In my viewing, the only thing each season left me with really, was whatever big central plot element it had. So yes, the good ended up second fiddle to that. I would have preferred the show not work that way.
As mentioned, every show features a primary ship that ends up solving the conflicts or being a MAJOR player in it.
Another way to put it might be that other treks don’t make their main ships feel like an inanimate Mary Sue? Or not as much. I don’t mind the spore drive, I think it’s cool af (even as to this day I’m iffy on the in-universe science it canonizes). Obviously the main ship and cast of a trek will somehow be part of major events, but disco never pulled that off without feeling contrived as hell to me.
I think that’s why you see people comment this a lot. Discos writing has a “forced” tone to it that not everyone seems to notice. Perhaps best exemplified by the way characters will burst into tears way more than in most media. Makes me think of the Robot Devils criticism in futurama.
Even as the performances are competent, it’s such a blatant attempt to pull at the viewers heartstrings it made me frustrated and thereby unable to stay immersed in what the character was feeling. Like the Robot Devil, rather then remaining engrossed, “that makes me angry”. I can still see and appreciate the arc of the character, but the execution sabotages my ability to remain invested.
The same kind of thing would happen with where the ship was going, what would happen there, etc.
Again, overall, I enjoy the show. And while I know a lot of people suffer a similar experience to mine, I think the issues I run into when watching the show just don’t register for others. Like how you’re able to completely explain away my problems through the way you experience it.
I can totally see how the show would shine if you just rearrange the parts I experience as second fiddle into it’s primary appeal. I just can’t do that when watching the show.
It is kinda weird that it always seemed like THE ship while the shows with the enterprise didn’t really have that even though canonically the enterprise is THE (flag)ship. Or at least not as much.
Did the disco really have to save the literal galaxy every season?
Personally, I’m fine with this.
But if they are going to save the galaxy, make some real galaxy-sized problem.
To be fair, if I gave you a fleet of starships and one of them could just appear anywhere at any time, it would be THE ship.
Geordi is great. I love him.
I love a LOT of the characters on TNG, but I just found the story arcs it ended up telling very… Overblown.
Did the Enterprise-D really have to save the literal galaxy every season? And skip across time so it could be placed into a pivotal role in every era?
Not a single time, not once, did the Enterprise-D feel like just another ship in the fleet. It was always THE ship.
Seasons 3-4 are still the best IMO, with Picard being assimilated and liberated and wrestling with his new dual-identity as Locutus. Worf leaving Starfleet and being instrumental in Gowron’s ascension. The story felt right. But then the ship and crew just kept being extraordinary not just every season, but in every tiny moment.
I really love all the worldbuilding in Trek, but in TNG that always played second fiddle to whatever crisis was going on, which the ENT-D would then inevitably resolve. It was yawn-inducing to me.
Even as I adored lots of the small stuff the series did with the style, characters, and world.
Like Geordi!
I don’t really think that’s the same thing. The enterprise D was the flagship of the federation. It was THE ship and was given important mission, but it didn’t save the entire literal galaxy in it’s own. It had whacky adventure, did a lot of first contacts, fought important battles. But discovery single handedly solved galaxy level menaces and fought against entire alien fleets, all without very little help. That just doesn’t make any sense
I’m really sorry you didn’t enjoy everything about the series, but your subjective experience is what it is.
I won’t belittle it by superficially rehashing your words to apply them to something else.
Actually I really did enjoy both TNG and Disco. Very different approaches in storytelling (episodic vs serialized). But you seem like you wanted Disco to be more like Lower Decks—not the hero of the fleet/timeline, not the supership of the timeline.
Wanting something to be something else is truly the supreme recipe for disappointment and distracts from appreciation of what something is and actually is, for all its flaws and charms.
Ok.
So you’re saying I’m wrong to have watched it at all, should shut up, accept it wasn’t made for me, walk away and stop sharing opinions online?
If we really boil it down, I wanted discos writing to be less contrived, less forced in its emotional high points, and more consistent and restrained in its fantastical worldbuilding.
Well I would not have said it like that.
You’re shouting at the sky here; angry because it’s raining on what was supposed to be a sunny day. The writers aren’t listening to you or me or anyone else, and it’s already been filmed and published, so what’s the point? To inspire a reboot where everything is done differently? Or just for some catharsis?
The only way to win a game of “immovable object vs unstoppable force” is to not play at all.
It’s an Internet forum/meme post about Star Trek… shouting at the sky/into the void how you feel about the show is kind of the whole point. People get satisfaction and fulfillment from expressing themselves. That’s it, there doesn’t have to be a purpose or real world goal here. Where do you think you are? Standing outside the paramount lot watching someone bang on the windows pleading for someone to listen to them?
The point is to offer your opinion of a show in a public forum. Star Trek fans in particular have been doing this for over 30 years. Why is this such a problem for you?
Or just for some catharsis?
Yes. When it comes to communication on things that don’t actually significantly impact reality, such as governmental policy, was there ever any greater point than that? (Except for when fiction comments on things like governmental policy.)
The only way to win a game of “immovable object vs unstoppable force” is to not play at all.
The logical endpoint of that logic is both of us deleting our accounts and never interacting with others online again.
I don’t subscribe to it.
You’re right, and I apologize. I was kind of being a dick. Tough day, and it was unfair to take that out on the world. I respect your right to have and voice an opinion, and although my intent was not to squelch or suppress I acknowledge that that is the effect of my message.
I will leave my messages there, downvotes and mistake and all. Steel sharpens steel.
Did the Enterprise-D really have to save the literal galaxy every season?
It didn’t. And most of the episodes weren’t even aimed at the major historical events of the time.
It did participate on most historical events when they happened. And Q preferred to interact with it (what created some of those events). But it’s completely different from Discovery.
Ah, canon, or the word we use to describe which made-up story is more real than the other made-up stories!
Anything I personally don’t enjoy isn’t Canon.
Everybody got their own canon.
There isn’t just one canon.
The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a canon.
Can you canonize a saint with only one cannon or do you need a full battery firing all at once to make sure nobody misses?
Depends what the yield is set to on the photonic missiles.
To me, canon is just all the parts I can remember. (With apologies to 1066 and All That!)
You got canon, I have photon torpedoes 🫠
Ha! I love it.
Yeah, who cares what’s canon anymore? Next week they’ll make another prequel that’ll retcon the previous retcon to something else.
It’s nothing but prequels anyway.
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A prequel is an automatic retcon. There will always be questions like “why didn’t they have that thing in the stories that take place afterwards?”
Besides, backstories are meant to be imagined by the audience. As soon as you decide to make a prequel you’re choosing to create cognitive dissonance for the fans. When people have to choose the backstory they imagined vs. the backstory somoene else came up with and put on the screen, people are going to choose the backstory they imagined.
Prequels are always bad for the fans, but the studios like them because it’s a lower barrier to entry for the non-fans.
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This has been my beef with new Star Trek. Too many damn prequels and nostalgia trips.
I just want a live action show with a new ship, a new crew, set post-DS9.
Yeah Star Trek Legacy is the show I want. Picard S3 was fun and all, and it restored the ending of TNG to be the way it should be, but I want to see new stories while checking in on some of the aftermath of DS9.
Modern Star Trek has its ups and downs. I’m just glad there’s so much of it. Discovery can have a weird National Treasure season, and Picard can have a bumpy Covid year, but there’s probably something interesting going on in Lower Decks or Strange New Worlds. (Or vice versa.)
I’m just happy characters like Stamets weren’t a one off experiment. It’s delightful to see queer folk continue to pop up in the main cast of other shows.
This analogy doesn’t work because Lower Decks never misses, making it the only star trek with no bad seasons
Lower Decks never misses unless you’re one of those folks with the Trek equivalent of the cilantro soap gene who just can’t get on board with an animated comedy show.
I have two opinions that have not changed since 2016:
First, Discovery, as Star Trek and as science fiction in general, is terrible. Great ideas destroyed by some of the worst writing and direction in the industry.
I will not be taking any questions.
And second, in spite of that, Paul Stamets as a character is one of my favorite in Star Trek. (After the shrooms mellowed him out, of course.)
I’m glad you’re sticking with your nick, it suits you and it’s a good one to have.
Probably unpopular opinion: I liked asshole Stamets. Nice Stamets is annoying.
Hell yeah dude!
All the characters in disco are amazing, it’s the main plot that gets ridiculous sometimes.
Don’t let bad writing ruin a great cast!
I mean i’m not a fan of the series as a whole but i’m absolutely here for psycho dwight harry mud
Doesn’t hurt as much as LD confirming that Threshold wasn’t just Tom Paris’ fever dream.
LD takes sadistic pleasure in making sure to confirm all the worst episodes are canon.
Hurts fans and disrespects canon. There’s a reason why it abbreviates so nicely to STD.
Yeah, DSC had some likeable moments and characters in a sea of mediocrity and poor producing. Mudd, Cpt Lorca, introducing SNW cast, etc and building off Roddenberry’s vision of representation. But yeah so much of it just felt like an assault on Trek. Like the producers hate it or something.
I loved Lorca. And actual fresh and yet completely believable military captain figure. And Jason Isaacs can act.
And then they ruined his character with a silly rug-pull and. making him turn out to be some generic, evil for the sake of being evil, space Hitler character.
I like a lot of the characters. I just dislike the plot and writing. Stamets fucks.
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i feel like the answer to what is and isn’t canon can be summed up with;
Why do the klingons look different?
They always looked like that, you just didn’t notice before.
Canon has always been squishy. The Eugenics Wars takes place in the nineteen-nineties… oh but didn’t Voyager’s crew visit our nineties? Plus, DISCO had that Elon Musk name drop.
…so the timeline floats up as the present day does. Canon is just a vague sense of the things everyone agrees on.
Personally,
I really dislike the fungus engine. You expect me to believe the Federation developed instant, consequence free warp but gave up on using it on literally any other ship? Silly. Very silly. Oh, but the precursor civilization doing a galaxy wide Genesis project is somehow an unimaginable technological feat.
And yes, I know STE covers the klingon flu. I just think They always looked like that was more elegant.
iirc klingons were uncomfortably bald in early disco
I liked the SNW temporal cold war explanation.
Well I haven’t even looked at it yet. The feedback of it from you guys is so bad I started deep space nine a second time before I went to discovery.
If you haven’t seen Babylon 5, give that a shot. It’s great. It’s gritty like the good episodes of ds9 with none of the fluff.
Thanks
It’s free on tubi
AAaaargghh! Medical emergency!
Give me 20 units of TOS immediately
I’ll prescribe you 2 hours of Benjamin Sisko’s e nun ci ation. S.
Fine but I want a bottle of McCoy’s scotch with it.
I’m not a magician, Spock, just an old country doctor.
Indeed, doctor. Though I find this, “hooch” as you call it, quite . . fassinaler.
klunk
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I really enjoyed most of Discovery. Especially all the genuine queer representation, that shit was overdue. And Michael is a hell of a character, great but flawed and so on.
I just wish the spore drive didn’t require the ship to spin around and make silly noises. That alone is responsible for a good 50% of the cringing I did while watching the series.
Doesn’t hold a candle to DS9 in most respects tho, which I started rewatching after getting two episodes into the final season of Discovery
Stamets. Both you and the character rock.
The first time I tried to watch D I wasn’t sure; but the second time through he has really grown on me.
You and the stuff you’ve said on here as well. You seem like a hoopy frooddeleted by creator
is ‘deserve’ really the word you were going for here? I dont ‘deserve’ to enjoy DIS and that’s why I didn’t?
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Yeah, the new version is what I assumed you meant. just wanted to make sure :D
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Discovery may be canon, but I don’t believe that the writers care all that much. They’ve certainly not made any effort to make it integrate with the rest of Trek.
Lower Decks on the other hand positively revels and the fact that it’s canon.
I certainly know which is the more enjoyable of the shows as a result.
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