That was one of the more interesting SOTU addresses I’ve seen. Personally, I think he said most of the things that needed to be said, and he said them reasonably well. I’m sure he’s going to get some flack for attacking Trump directly (though not by name), but I was frankly glad to see it. Doing otherwise makes it seem like it’s just your typical election/political disagreements, but we’re past that now.
He really needed to expose the lie of “Sleepy Joe” and he absolutely did. Anyone who honestly thought he has mental deficiencies just got their ass handed to them by an 81 year old.
Agreed, he seemed on top of it the whole time, including while responding to the heckles. A few times he flubbed up his words a bit, but that’s been true forever. He’s not the orator Obama is, but it was and excellent speech.
Right? Dude -overcame- a speech impediment ffs.
Speech impediment + talking way too fast, but he recognized the problem in speaking slowly.
He’s not the orator Obama is
No one is, and that’s just the truth. Obama will probably go down as the most effective public speaker we’ll see in our lifetime.
Also a truth is that everyone flubs the occasional word. You and I do it every day. Specially when stressed or tired.
Theres a stark difference between flubbing a word, and struggling to make a coherent statement.
Yeah 100% agree. Like I said, it was a good speech effectively delivered. All these chucklefucks that jump up and down every time he flubs a word are just ridiculous. And they’re complete hypocrites of they use that as a reason to vote for Trump instead - the guy who consistently refers to the wrong president and says complete nonsense every single day.
Well, that and drone striking weddings.
Drone striking weddings is easier when you can talk your way out of the consequences
Apparently
Saruman might be a close second…
Waiiiit whaaaat, he’s 81? No fucking way, that seals it, I’m not going to vote /s
Yeah but the other guy is 277.
Oh, we’re talking age, not weight?
No, the other guy is 77. We’re talking IQ, right?
I thought it was 215.
Maybe when he was 19
I’m referring to the bs he put in when he got “arrested”.
And I put it into quotes because he got to just waltz in for a photo shoot and fingerpaints while everyone else gets cuffs and a chauffer to the precinct.
Now the orange shitgibbon and the rest of the GQP is angry, no furious, that Biden was “on drugs.” LOL!
And Trump didn’t even deliver the rebuttal. Low energy! Sad.
shitgibbon
😍
Wtf lol. I could not disagree more. He looks like a sleepy skeleton who they woke up from a nap.
Were you watching with the sound off?
No, I heard him tripping up in his words too lol. Maybe I didn’t have my /politics blinders on, sorry.
But did you listen to the words? Or just tv static cause Biden bad?
Yeah he did a whole lot of finger pointing and not a lot of explaining the actual state of the union in my opinion, but I mostly skimmed it. Did he mention that under his watch women lost their bodily autonomy, and that the US produced more oil and gas than any country to ever exist?
Edit: Did he say anything about structuring arms deals so that he could go behind congress’ back to sell a country engaged in genocide more weapons to engage in that genocide?
Did he mention that under his watch women lost their bodily autonomy
Wow, that’s rich. Biden and the Democrats have been fighting against that very thing. It’s being done in Republican controlled states, supported by a Republican majority Congress. Yes, he talked about it.
It’s like punching him in the nose and then saying you won’t vote for him because he’s got blood on his face.
obviously the republicans are more to blame for the roe v wade repeal, but Democrats have blood on their hands too. It’s been half a century since 1974 and the Democrats have had many majorities and presidencies since then. At no point did they pass some sort of abortion bill.
and joe biden has been a leading figure in the democratic party for nearly as long
Sounds like they’re not fighting very hard lol
He’s had a stutter his whole life and he was talking faster than necessary.
That’s not what I’m talking about.
The only times he slipped while speaking it was because of his stutter and trying to go too fast.
Yes. Old people can’t speak as fast or well as they used to. This isn’t rocket surgery.
Was that before or after he stared down the Magat trolls and beyond-obviously-corrupted supreme court justices to their faces?
Wow he stared at them to their faces? He must mean business lol.
As everyone starts dunking on the trolls, remember that a non zero number of them are less trolls and more agents of chaos for their government. Reporting and down voting might be a much more useful action.
You can click (or right-click, or click-and-hold) the username to block them too. If you reasonably expect a good-faith argument (remember those?) you probably shouldn’t but hey - you can if you want.
God, comments like this are so embarrassing. If you want to dismiss everyone critical of the Democrats as a troll, fine, but you honestly think that Lemmy is being infiltrated by foriegn agitators sewing discord? They could be using Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, TikTok, or YouTube, but they’re wasting their efforts on a site that just hit 50,000 daily active users? You would honestly rather believe that a percentage of these people are foreign agents rather than people who just don’t agree with you?
Foreign election interference is a real, serious threat to our democracy and you’re not helping to fight it by accusing every online rando of being in league with Russia or China. You’re doing to election interference what Qanon did to child trafficking; you’re making it look ridiculous to serious people.
Plenty of people disagree honestly and in good faith. Plenty of people pretend to disagree while using inflammatory language meant to spur reactions, commonly referred to as trolling. It’s also quite easy for small teams and bot nets to spread to basically anywhere people gather online in order to sow anger and division to further their ends. To pretend otherwise is extremely disingenuous.
And to pretend that is happening here with zero evidence is silly. Have you ever clicked into a comment and seen something that look falsified, like a copy-paste comment from a user, or repeating phrases from multiple users? Cause I’ve only ever seen socialists and communists complaining about Democrats, and liberals calling them, “tankies,” in return. Telling a small community on a small website to watch out for foreign actors because a small minority of comments are critical of Joe Biden is some McCarthy-esque nonsense.
From the SotU
Here’s a simple truth. You can’t love your country only when you win.
Nice.
Congressional Republican leaders showcased one of their newest lawmakers through the State of the Union rebuttal, hoping to make a generational contrast with Biden. Alabama Sen. Katie Britt, the youngest Republican woman elected to the Senate, painted a picture of a nation that “seems to be slipping away” and one where “our families are hurting.”
“Right now, our commander-in-chief is not in command. The free world deserves better than a dithering and diminished leader,” Britt said, speaking deliberately in an address from her home kitchen.
Dithering and diminished? You just got your clock cleaned by an old guy and you’re stumping for the convicted fraud who can’t remember who is currently the President? The one who thinks magnets are somehow turned off by water? The one who declares loudly they’ll change the state name of Pennsylvania if he doesn’t get enough votes? That one?
Katie Britt, I didn’t have any expectations - never heard of you before - but whoever wrote that for you stuck you in the woodchipper. Do better. Stop supporting a demented rapist. Stop destroying the rights of women to their own bodies.
Apparently that’s just how she is. She’s a lawyer, married to a retired football player
If you watch her speech it’s disturbing
It was so creepily stepford wives-y.
She did the Hannibal Lecter “not blinking” thing while alternating between smiles and rage that both never reached her eyes.
Also, kind of ballsy to ask “are you better off than you were four years ago.”
Like, yes, my life could be better, but I at least have toilet paper.
Absolutely the least disturbing thing about that speech was the content, when it is contrasted with the delivery of said content. Supes creepy lady.
Her breathy desperate whispering of half the speech was like the auditory version of crazy eyes.
I would guess that was higher energy than Republicans expected. But, people always underestimate Joe.
Exaggerating Biden’s mental fitness day after day is a double-edged sword, since in moments like this he can blow away expectations
They tried to do the same with Obama. I remember the “he can’t speak without a teleprompter” crap they peddled back then.
Fox News is literally calling him, “Jacked-Up Joe” now hahaha.
Jacked up joe makes him sound like a muscle bound super villian, and I love it.
Lets Go! Dark Biden JACKED UP on Freedom Steroids! riding his Socialist Bicycle into a brighter future!
Jacked up is just the next power level of Dark Brandon
Thats to be expected.
Remember, the enemies of Fascists are whatever the fascist narrative needs them to be in moment. Which is why Joe Biden has been weak, pathetic, and ineffective while also being a strong man dictatorial master of complex conspiracies.
Forgot about J.O.E
What people also forget is that the last election was campaigned during Covid. This will be his last campaign and he is one of the best retail politicians ever. While Trump can organize events, Joe will be pressing the flesh and eating ice cream.
Joe puckering up to start kissing babies
Mother holding out her baby with tears in her eyes: “its for the good of the country, little one.”
Going into it, I was wondering if he could pull this off. He needs to be giving more and more public speeches as November gets closer. And every single speech has a chance of hurting him in the polls, helping him in the polls, or not moving the polls.
I felt that the probability of this SOTU was more leaning towards hurting him because of potential stumbles and gaffes - of which he had a few but not many. After watching, if I had to guess 0-100 where 0 hurts hims absolutely and 100 helps him then I would say it was a 60.
I was expecting somewhere closer to 40. We’ll have to see what the polls say in the next few days to really get a clear picture of its effects.
He definitely started off strong, with energy. Which is exactly what he needs to convey if he wants to convince people he’s not too old to be president. But he did have some moments there where he messed up certain words. For example mentioning taking Air Force One to Moscow or women’s “electrical power” instead of electoral.
Regardless, I think it was a good job by Biden and he’s gonna need to keep this up if he wants any chance to win this election because the polls are preferring Trump at this point in time.
The troll farm accounts are out in full force today.
It was a nice little period when they hadn’t discovered lemmy.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Joe Biden delivered a defiant argument for a second term in his State of the Union speech Thursday night, lacing into GOP front-runner Donald Trump for espousing “resentment, revenge and retribution” and for jeopardizing freedom at home and abroad.
Reveling in the political moment, Biden fired multiple broadsides at “my predecessor” without ever mentioning Trump by name — 13 times in all — raising his voice repeatedly as he worked to quell voter concerns about his age and job performance while sharpening the contrast with his all-but-certain November rival.
White House aides said Biden was aiming to prove his doubters wrong by flashing his combative side and trying to needle Republicans over positions he believes are out of step with the country, particularly on access to abortion, but also tax policy and healthcare.
Biden aides inside the White House and on his campaign had hoped for some fresh viral moments — like when he tussled last year with heckling Republicans and chided them for past efforts to cut Medicare and Social Security.
As Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, decked out in pro-Trump paraphernalia, continued to shout at Biden, the president held up a white button that the Georgia Republican had handed him earlier bearing the name of Laken Riley, who authorities say was killed by a Venezuelan national who unlawfully crossed into the U.S. in September 2022.
One of first lady Jill Biden’s guests for the speech was Kate Cox, who sued Texas, and ultimately left her home state, to obtain an emergency abortion after a severe fetal anomaly was detected.
The original article contains 1,750 words, the summary contains 264 words. Saved 85%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Bunch of fed-bots in here atm lol
If I have to read the word “feisty” one more time today I’m going to lose it.
You sound pretty f… Oh, nevermind.
I think passionate, spirited, and energizing are great adjectives too. “Feisty” has just been everywhere today wrt the speech; it makes it sound like we’re talking about a sick cat.
Were you going to say fiesty?
0
Uh… No… Umm… “Fabulous!”
Christo-fascists right now: "Did you see how feisty Biden was? We really ought to stop or else he might ‘tsk’ us.
That sounds like a lot of blathering about how he’s better than the worst president in history. Not exactly a high bar.
And better than every Republican president in your fucking lifetime.
Don’t let perfection be the enemy of the good…
Well, yes. Again, not a high bar.
and yet somehow it’s still a contest
What would you have had him do differently?
End American Oligarchy
What, through some kinda increased tax on billionaires? That’s a good idea.
Increasing taxation on them does not alter their absolute control of our government and democracy
Oligarchs own and control the United States. That is what needs to change.
Take positions that benefit humanity even if they aren’t ‘safe.’
He’s a tool of the establishment, nothing more.
Any serious opposition to Israel’s genocide would have been nice. Not bypassing Congress to rush weapon sales to them would have been nice.
You understand the alternative is going to do both of those things way more, right
You understand that criticizing Biden and supporting Trump aren’t the same thing, right?
When it’s either/or, as it ultimately is - I do not.
And the fact that it’s the russian trolls’ M.O. is not random chance.
You have Jan 6, 2021-early 2024 to criticize away. Time’s up. You may recommence criticizing without helping trump on November 10th, 2024.
Notably, you can join in on your favorite solution without criticizing at any time.
If you think there is even a remote possibility that anything in American politics would involve anything but the very lowest of bars, then you’re gonna be pretty disappointed. We’re at the point where we’re begging half of the voting public to please refrain from electing treasonous, felonious, fascists. The bar is so low, it may be the only place left on the planet that isn’t full of microplatics.
Wow, all two of them? Get a higher bar. I’m not even young.
All three Democratic presidents I’ve been alive for have been pretty bad too. Turns out I’m not represented very well in our plutocracy, and it’s pretty tiring to hear the endless defense of the wealthy elite that actively work against all of us.
So what are you, personally, doing to actively work for all of us?
Apart from complaining on the internet about ‘both sides’?
The options are either personally fix our entire country or shut up and follow orders? This unwillingness to accept criticism of the Democratic Party is exactly why people like me feel unrepresented by it. We see a party working against our interests and a fan base frothing at the mouth anytime anyone dares speak against them.
Have you ever complained about the Republicans? If so, why don’t you stop complaining about it and personally fix the country?
I think a different perspective is: First, make the choice that will be least harmful for the country, then do what we can to make things better. Allowing the poorer choice to be made isn’t going to solve the problem any more than fighting against it, but it will probably allow more time to change course.
I wouldn’t call Biden a great president, but I wouldn’t call him terrible. Trump doesn’t have the intelligence to recognize the we have skin to keep things like bleach and UV rays out, or the self-awareness to realize that musings like that are far better done in private where the consequences are smaller.
The difference is that it’s the same “you have to make the safe choice now and you’ll get to make things better later” every single cycle. Many of us see it all as a facade that will never end, and watch the Democratic Party actively work against our interests in the meantime.
But we can’t ever dare express discontent online without vitriol from people who can’t seem to handle the fact that others might not be convinced by “I’m not a Republican” anymore.
Run for office bro.
Christ on a shitstick, the last decent republican was Eisenhower.
Agreed. They’re just looking out for different rich people.
A slow loss is still a loss.
You’re aging. May as well kill yourself. Right?
It’s sad people like you think you have a point, but reinforces my idea that average aren’t worth taking seriously these days.
Lolbruh, sounds good. Enjoy your feebleness.
Don’t worry, I’m way better off than you.
That sounds like a lot of blathering about how he’s better than the worst president in history
What does? Something I said? Something in the article?
I certainly don’t feel that way. I didn’t vote for Biden in the 2020 primary, and I had pretty low expectations for him when I voted for him in the general. That being said, I personally think he’s been a good president and has gotten way more done with a divided government than I thought possible. He’s not perfect, and I wish we had someone younger and more progressive, but he’s really accomplished a lot. More than Obama, certainly, though the Senate opposition to Obama was insane.
I think that’s why ppl don’t like him and why this election will be closer than any of us like. A large number of us aren’t voting for Biden, we’re voting against Trump. Again. This isn’t how a party consistently wins elections.
True but it’s not a normal situation when a Putinesque protofascist like Trump is a candidate with a real chance. It’s an emergency, now’s not the time to wax lyrical about the condition of American politics. Avoid Trump once more, maybe even again in 2028, and build up from there. If Trump becomes president, chances are there won’t be anything left to build upon, that’s what’s at stake. Fuck, why don’t people understand how grave the situation is??
Jesus Christ. If that motherfucker makes it to 2028 and still runs, I will sell every fucking thing I own and GTFO somehow and in some way. Their platform has been “We take your rights away so we can make your life miserable, and make profit at the same time!” and I absolutely fucking refuse to partake in this bullshit any longer because your average “American” refuses to read or accept reality.
So, how does a party consistently win elections?
I hear there are people who would love to know that.
“The democrat said he’s better than the republican! Unacceptable!”
Clutch harder, Pearl.
That’s just the first 15 minutes or so…I almost shut it off.
After “orange man bad” he went policy by policy, said what he’s done and outlined a liberal (not neoliberal) platform for like 30 minutes straight. It wasn’t just scare tactics about cultural stuff for once
For me, the big was the complacency of the Democratic party. They just kept moving further right and ignoring what the people want, but I’m hoping this marks a turning point
It’s not nearly enough, but at least he’s started building social programs, talking about raising the corporate tax rates, and enforcing anti-trust laws.
The speech was huge, this article doesn’t at all do it justice.
That is actually good to hear. I haven’t seen the speech, just read this and a couple other articles. I will have to give it a watch tomorrow
You’re giving Trump far too much credit. Wilson, Jackson, Polk, Monroe, and many others were far far worse presidents than Trump. He was bad, yeah, but he was mostly an ineffective tool. He deserves to be stuck at the 45th percentile of presidents. Mediocre, but trending towards sucking Russian dick.
Pretty sure Nero was worse too, but here’s the thing: Nero didn’t have the mass propaganda tools and nuclear weapons.
Advantage: Orange Rapist.
Did any of them willingly and consciously allow an epidemic to become pandemic, in turn murdering thousands upon thousands of their own citizens, and others around the world? No?
Jackson cause the Trail of Tears, and the longest and deepest (by percentage, not dollar amount) depression in US history.
Polk created manifest destiny, Monroe the Monroe Doctrine, both of which led to the genocide of the Native Americans
Wilson wrote Southern Revisionism, segregated The Federal Government, erected a bunch of statues that we are finally tearing down of people that specifically said that they shouldn’t ever have a statue because they were traitors, expanded the presidential powers to tyrannical proportions with the sedition and insurrection act, and set up Wilsonian Doctrine, setting the US on the path of endless wars, not to mention all the wars he started and expanded upon in Central and South America. He also inadvertently caused WWII.
Trump didn’t come close to those disasters.
Wasn’t Biden elected to dial back the fascism he’s gladly overseeing? The math ain’t mathing. This is why the message of Trump will be the end of democracy won’t work. There’s nothing democratic about the USA. This is not a hyperbole or exaggeration. He is perfectly fine COP City, NYC Subway searches and working with Right-Wing cultists on the border and Genocide.
Perhaps you’re right, that his messaging won’t change anyone’s minds, but the reality is Trump is and will be much worse than Biden. America is fucking around and is probably gonna find out.
Most likely, the time for Biden to course correct is running out. It doesn’t help people are fine with the bad aspects of his Presidency because he isn’t the other guy. If you want Biden to win then help him be more humanitarian.
You can be critical of a politician and still support that politician. Why that’s suddenly a super difficult thing to understand is beyond me.
If you’re not agreeing with absolutely everything and refusing to blindly support their chosen politician, you’re not a part of their “team”. And that makes you an enemy. There’s no room for nuance.
you’re on the internet too much
I probably should’ve put an /s, since you took what I said as my actual worldview. I was agreeing with you
Ah.
I get the frustration, but the time to express that has unfortunately passed, and it was to mount an effective Biden replacement campaign the moment Biden was first reelected. Could that hurt Biden and help Trump? Yes, absolutely, but that would have been necessary if this hypothetical were to have played out.
Assuming you were ok with that pain, then you could’ve effectively replaced Biden with a different senior Democrat - unfortunately part 3 - that would likely reflect mainstream big-D policies.
Or, alternatively to all of that, you couldve fundraiser for hundreds of millions, perhaps billions of dollars over the last 4 years for a 3rd party. Again, not a blue sky scenario but unfortunate reality.
But neither of those things happened so now it really is Biden v Trump and there are no other reasonable options.
Lol beta.
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FYI in the West we don’t call people “dog” as a negative - that’s pretty much an Eastern Europe/Russia thing. We will call people “dog,” but that’s more like “dawg,” as in “what’s up dawg?” which is a friendly greeting.
Also dogs don’t kneel.
Very telling that Trump uses “dog” as an insult. Where did he pick that little gem up from, do you think?
It’s almost like how in 2016 out of nowhere “cuck” was a thing that you’d hear people call each other. It’s a much more common insult in Russia/states that were liberated from Moscow’s rule.
Don’t help him!
LOL look at this guy calling other people dogs!
First past the post system, genius…we only get the lesser of two evils.
Have you ever seen a dog kneel? Or are you just another retarded Trump humper :*
You know what’s funny. Every time I see this type of nonsensical comment, it reminds me why I have to vote for Biden, even if I have other issues with him. I have skipped elections in the past, and was considering doing so again, but comments like yours make it absolutely clear that the alternative is just insane.
Pick who you want. Insanity is co-signing genocide and fascism.
There’s nothing democratic about the USA. This is not a hyperbole or exaggeration.
No need to go out and vote for Trump, then, just stay home!
Don’t worry, many people will if Biden doesn’t do a better job. That is why he is losing in most polls. Biden voters are closer to Trump than think they are.
Ah, so you are a Trump supporter, then?
Nope. I’ve never voted for any of the GOP. Biden is still building Trump’s wall and openly working with the GOP on the border. I think you’re closer than me.
I’m not voting for joe because he’s complicit in genocide.
What disgusts me the most is all the posturing we’re seeing now in anticipation for the election.
It just shows he doesn’t have a genuine bone in his body.
Look. I don’t support vaporizing Gazans and I also feel rather impotent to do anything about it. I also think things are broken and our county needs some major systemic changes to give power back to the people.
And I support the ‘uncommitted’ vote in the primary to send a clear message to Biden.
But don’t kid yourself with this ‘both sides are the same’ stuff.
Biden will, at the very, very least, try to reduce suffering where he can. And that may be pathetically little.
But this is the other side that WILL come to power if you (and I mean you) don’t vote for Biden this fall:
Trump breaks silence on Israel’s military campaign in Gaza: ‘Finish the problem’
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-israel-gaza-finish-problem-rcna141905
I’ve come across many people like you and it always ends the same.
You refuse to acknowledge how a slow loss is still a loss and go into “recruitment” mode.
It’s really just a instinctive response at this point, and I never expect anything more from you.
Goodbye.
Trump will literally result in more Gazans dead. Why do you want more Gazans to die?
Can I see your crystal ball?
You people keep telling me Trump is Putin’s puppet and Putin supports Hamas. But now Trump will go against Putin’s wishes and kill more Gazans than Biden?
Which is it?
It’s the one where he said he supports Israel and wants them to finish the job… You’re just being willfully blind at this point and clearly lack the maturity to differentiate your idealistic vision with the true reality of what would happen if Trump gets another term.
So Trump isn’t actually Putin’s puppet? Is that what you’re landing on?
See how cognitive dissonance works? Lol.
Hahaha, as if he can’t both be pro-pootin and pro-israel. What really makes you think he wouldn’t try to help Israel destroy Gaza and help pootin destroy Ukraine?
I don’t think you know what “cognitive dissonance” is or how it is being weaponized to take advantage of people like yourself.
A LOT of Trump supporters are people who espouse antisemitism in one breath, but will cheer Trump saying Israel “needs to finish the job” in the next.
You also don’t seem to understand WHY Trump, a man who is desperate to win the election so he can eliminate all the lawsuits and judgements against him… is backing Isreal. I’ll give you a hint: he wants the Jewish vote. He thinks saying “we will eliminate Palestinians” is the same as telling black people he’s just like them for being the target of biased prosecution.
Although, on second thought, you probably DO know these things… you’re just arguing in bad faith because you have your own shitty agenda to push.
So I guess the question is are you wildly ignorant or are you just pretending to be?
No one is talking about Putin. You’re just changing the topic because you don’t know how to argue in good faith.
No, I’m raising a very good point to highlight your cognitive dissonance.
You don’t want to acknowledge I have a point because that would mean admitting you’re wrong about Trump.
This is how cognitive dissonance works. You have two conflicting ideas in your head and can’t process how to reconcile them. You just get mad whenever someone calls it out.
You keep saying everyone else has cognitive dissonance, but you haven’t explained what the actual dissonance is. There’s no reason to assume that supporting Trump and supporting Israel are to dissonant ideas. Both want to destroy something that he’s professed agreement with destroying.
Biden is actively pursuing a cease fire, while Trump literally said Israel needs to finish the job in Gaza. He also said Putin should be able to do what he wants in Ukraine.
Biden is posturing for the upcoming election.
Well, sure. As does every candidate in the history of our country.
This sounds like some accelerationist bullshit, and if so, your opinion can be safely ignored. Accelerationists should be ignored and shun ed at every possible step, as they only seek increased pain and suffering for all. Any accelerationist that disagrees with that clearly hasn’t looked at the consequences of burning the system down.
No, it’s supporting candidates that represent my interests instead of ones that do not.
You have been conditioned to ‘go with the flow’, regardless of what the outcome actually is.
I don’t expect you to acknowledge this. You’re just trying to look good in front of your peers, after all.
But don’t kid yourself with this ‘both sides are the same’ stuff.
they never said that.
I’m not an American so I’m not invested in the same way, but if you don’t want Biden because of his actions with respect to the Gaza genocide can I ask about your thought process regarding what happens if he does not get in? If he loses the only possible winner is Trump because he is the Republican nominie, so is a vote not for Biden basically a vote for Trump? Or do you see it some other way?
You are about to discover that a good fraction of Americans will cut off their noses to spite their faces.
Neither candidate represents my interests so I lose either way.
Welcome to American politics.
Is one of them going to hurt you more than the other?
Me? No.
The only impact this really has on me is seeing how everyone else reacts. My life was remarkably similar under Trump, Biden, and Obama.
This is what losing feels like.
That’s the Republican way of thinking for sure. “Oh, it didn’t personally impact me? I don’t care.”
You’re a fool if you think Trump would be anything but catastrophic for the world. Naive or a shill.
They’re saying there was no measurable change in their lives driven by political leadership in the last 16 years? They’re arguing in bad faith.
That’s why he called them a Republican.
That’s the Republican way of thinking for sure. “Oh, it didn’t personally impact me? I don’t care.”
You literally asked if it would be worse for me.
You’re a fool if you think Trump would be anything but catastrophic for the world.
Yeah, people said the same thing in 2016. Then the democrats nominated Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders, guaranteeing a Trump victory.
Just goes to show, Trump is preferable to a candidate who actually fights for commoners.
This is what I mean by we’re losing no matter what. I don’t think you’re capable of understanding this, though.
Sad how you feel justified in calling others ‘fools.’
I get you’re just a sad little loser and saying this dumb shit is just your way of getting attention from strangers on the internet.
But on the tiny off chance you’re not a troll that knows how stupid your own argument is:
Trump has literally said he will be a dictator from day one. He has already made 1 major attempt to end the Democratic process in the US. And has a several courts including the supreme Court stacked in his favour, given another 4 years that will only get worse and he has a much better chance this tike around of actually ending democracy in America. So even if you truly belive the stupid fucking opinion that Joe Biden is just as bad as Trump, taking the hit and voting for Biden this time means you can vote for someone else in 4 years time, so you have a chance to get a president that actually works for you. But if you don’t vote and Trump gets elected then there’s a good chance you never get a say in who is president ever again.
Also you know your incredibly obvious fake concern over gaza is fucking disgusting btw. You’re genuinely a piece of shit.
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Yeah, people said the same thing in 2016. Then the democrats nominated Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders, guaranteeing a Trump victory.Just goes to show, Trump is preferable to a candidate who actually fights for commoners.
No, it goes to show that a bunch of stupid assholes abstained from voting because both of the candidates sucked, and a bunch more stupid assholes who probably wouldn’t have voted decided to vote for Trump “for the lolz”. Bernie wouldn’t have beaten Trump in 2016. Biden wouldn’t have beaten Trump in 2016. And here you are with the benefits of hindsight, yet you’re still pushing the same agenda as 2016.
Your stupid rhetoric will get Trump reelected.
What democratic country now or in history do you think has a party / candidate that represents every of their voter’s interests 100%? I mean you sound like you don’t understand what compromise is but that can’t be, right?
It doesn’t have to be 100%, lol.
The problem is they don’t represent my interests at all. Their entire goal is just looking out for different rich people, which I do not support.
I’m sorry this bothers you, but it’s purely because you’ve succumbed to tribalism and think everyone else should follow suit.
No no, I get it, you’re not the sharpest knife in the drawer, and suffer from progressed main character syndrome.
Nah. I just don’t adhere to tribalism.
Eh, not sure if you can really objectively judge that. But what’s clear to me is that you suck major ass.
I’m not voting for joe because he’s complicit in genocide.
Anything Joe can do, Trump can do much, much worse.
It’s depressing how succinctly correct that sentence is.
Why would Trump support Israel if it goes against his puppetmaster, Putin?
So you agree Trump is just a Putin lapdog?
Yes. Why would get go against his master’s wishes in relation to Israel?
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-israel-finish-the-problem-gaza_n_65e76ed1e4b0f9d26cac9866
Yes, getting rid of Joe will be so good for Gaza.
I didn’t read the article, do you want to use your own words to tell me your point?
Trump abandoned any pretense of American neutrality when he moved the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.
Trump’s evangelical backers are big on the End Times, and would happily blow up the entire Middle East to bring about the return of Jesus.
Don’t bother responding. I know how valuable your time is and don’t want to waste anymore of it.
So we can admit Trump is not a puppet of Putin?
Why is that so hard to get you guys to acknowledge? Lol.
No, we can’t. That’s a false dichotomy that ignores a fuckton of evidence of trump actively supporting pootins goals against that of the US.
Trump helping Israel means that Iran is more likely to make a deal with Russia, which has wanted a warm water port for centuries.
…and then things got worse.
Forever and ever…
Jews didn’t exactly do well in Russia, but antisemitism has been popular and the xenophobes there don’t seem to differentiate much between Palestinians and Jews (or a number of other groups). I suspect that Putin would be happier if they all died, and is supporting the team his competitor for global power is against. And the only better outcomes than the group his competitor is propping up winning would be if the one they weren’t propping up won or, better yet, if they both wiped each other out.
So, based on that assessment, he would have no problem with Trump having different opinions in this topic, because his primary goal would be achieved, and his secondary goals wouldn’t be hindered. This isn’t cognitive dissonance, simply realpolitik.
I’m not voting for joe because he’s complicit in genocide.
So instead you’re going to help elect the guy who says Israel needs to finish the job in Gaza. Who says Russia should be able to do what they want. Your sensibilities are messed up.
I’m not voting for either candidate.
I lose either way.
You honestly believe that a Biden term would be as bad or worse then a Trump term? Seems insane.
I don’t think it really matters at this point.
The advantage of Trump winning is that people like you see there’s a problem.
If Biden wins, you pat yourselves on the back for a job well done.
It’s delusional and I don’t expect more from any of you at this point.
The more you support a slow loss, the less I take you seriously.
Low IQ detected. Maybe the lowest we ever observed.
You fit in with the tribe.
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Allowing the greater evil through inactive might be a moral victory for you, but it’s disastrous for everyone.
The lack of morals is why people are choosing between two genocidal old men. I know it is easy for people to discard the lives of others and not care about the current fascism in the US because you aren’t effected by it. Joe Biden is not a good man. Even if Trump is the greater evil.
We only have 2 choices in fptp voting systems.
You can’t see the forest through the trees
With the other guy you’ll get the same.
Nah, Trump would be encouraging the use of Nukes to “solve the problem,” in his own words.
Yeah. That’s the point.
It’s why everyone who says “don’t vote third party” is really a part of the problem.
Nah, everyone who says, “don’t vote third party” simply paid attention in their civics class and understands how our electoral system works.
Independents have won federal offices before, not the presidency, but we have evidence showing that third parties can win elections. However, if two candidates are clear frontrunners, voting for a third party doesn’t positively contribute to the outcome of the election.
In fact, the data shows that a vote for a minority candidate makes it more likely that the winner of the election will hold views that are actually farther from one’s preferences than if one voted for a majority candidate. This is a big part of the push for states to move to ranked choice voting, so that voters don’t need to make this kind of electoral compromise.
If you’re in Maine, Alaska, or Hawaii, you may be in luck! Otherwise, you can put your hands over your eyes and yell about the injustice of it all, but it doesn’t change the facts; which is why grownups having political discussions dismiss minority candidates as being irrelevant to the discussion.
Yeah, I guess between Stalin and Pol Pot you should pick one of them instead of trying something else.
This is why you people are perpetually losers and why I never take you seriously at this point.
I’m not voting for joe
But you are voting against Trump, right?
get the issues with Trump are more than valid but it is only democratic to vote Biden and not to try other parties especially the ones openly voicing how they are in line with what the citizens want?
very confused how the US thinks and works please make it make sense
I think I understand your question. In the United States, they have what’s called a “First Past The Post” electoral system. This essentially means if you get the most votes, even if you don’t get the majority of votes, you win the electoral district. Win the most electoral districts and you become President. The reality of this system is that it effectively becomes a “2 Party System”, where you have many parties to vote for, but only 2 viable options, in this case Democrats and Republicans. Because of this, it becomes necessary to “strategically vote” so you vote for the lesser of two evils. First Past The Post is not a representative democracy and therefore should be replaced with a better system that allows 3rd Parties to have a fighting chance. The leaders of the 2 big parties have lots of money and influence and can prevent this from happening.
There’s plenty of FPTP systems that have more than one party. The US 2 party system is there because of lack of campaign financing restrictions, and, well, corruption.
There are other parties even in the US, but they are not taken seriously because they basically take away votes from the big party ideologically closer to them and so they are marginalized. Appropriately so given how FPTP works.
The election system is the real issue that needs to be fixed, and new finance rules around elections aren’t going to make enough of a dent.
I’m talking parties that take seats. The two party FPTP is peculiar to the US.
makes perfect sense then why third parties do not have a fighting chance thanks for clearing the air
Republicans and Democrats make sure the other parties cannot participate, take people’s votes away (am one of many not allowed to vote or participate in this “democracy”), and stack the board in their favor and both parties are backed by corporations that have their own interests that do not align with the citizens so the shareholders win no matter who gets to be president
https://www.democracynow.org/2012/10/17/green_partys_jill_stein_cheri_honkala
…so then you totally did understand, you just wanted someone to waste their time explaining it so you could immediately come back with jill stein nonsense. that was a dick thing to do.
Earned them -14 points, so they don’t really look very smart here. But as pointless as it all seems, we need to keep relaying the message of electoral reform to as many people as possible.
Their whole spiel relies on reaching literally any bystander they can. Definitely worth dissecting their bullshit.
Anyone pushing for Stein, Gabbard, or the likes of any of these people is quite clearly trying to wedge-drive and there’s a decent probability they’re a Kremlin bot.
or maybe they’re someone whose life has been affected negatively by different Democrat and Republican laws and policies their whole life and are just looking for some alternative some other way out because they feel stuck in someone else’s country that does not want them there to begin with
anyone who supports the Democrat or Republican corporate parties has never been directly affected by either enough to know otherwise and are lucky to live in that United States
not allowed to vote and participate in this game so what do I know anyways right
rather some other party besides the “two” because do not want either of the two in power so what good is wedge-driving to someone like me who actually wants change to occur not the same shit on a blue plate we are always served
tired of eating that horse shit and cannot wait until the rest are too
If you know that much but not the mathematical trend toward a two-party system that does not, again mathematically, permit a 3rd-party candidate without risking the FAR WORSE candidate via spoiler, Donald Trump, then you are arguing in bad faith or young and naive.
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Broder just wanted to shill lol
Fptp voting. Go read about it and learn what it does.
what a speech
republicans and democrats do sound the same
my opponent is the harbinger of death for democracy you have to vote for me!
over the course of my life it has gone from two people debating how their views and policies will shape your life and your surroundings to just talking shit about your opponent in a long winded speech that has no actual meat to it and no discernible game plan for the next four potential years was discussed
Were fucking doomed because of people like you.
Were fucking doomed because of people like you.
Your script needs updating or tweaks. We’ve seen it used in this thread a handful of times already.
Don’t make it this easy lol. Beta.
When the other guy refuses to admit he lost an election, refuses a peaceful transfer of power, organizes an insurrection to take the government by force, and repeatedly says he’ll use his office as a weapon to punish his enemies, it’s completely legitimate to say the other guy is the harbinger of death for democracy. The speech was unlike any SOTU from prior generations because we’ve never been in this state before.
And you must not have been listening, because I certainly heard an awful lot of plans for the future.
Oh, when was that, when two people were honestly debating their views and policies? Was it Nixon? Reagan? Bush? other Bush? Which Republican was it?
what bullshit
Did you miss Biden literally laying out his pro working class domestic agenda? He gave a call to action for voters that improvements for labor. Given, he totally flubbed talking about the Georgia murder and Israel/Palestine, but if you think both parties are the same in domestic policy, then you’re the one not paying attention.
Tell me you didn’t actually experience 2016-2021 (where that’s all that little wannabe dictator did lmao), and definitely did not watch the SoTU, without telling me.
What fucking nonsense.
