- cross-posted to:
- drs_your_gme@lemmy.whynotdrs.org
- cross-posted to:
- drs_your_gme@lemmy.whynotdrs.org
“Argentina registered a year-on-year inflation rate of 254.2 percent in January, the highest in 32 years, according to data released Wednesday by the National Institute of Statistics and Censuses (INDEC)”
Poorness rise to almost 58% while the president is refusing to hike the minimum wage, which is common to rise every 3 months or so even during the right wing liberal regime of Macri, but this guy FUCK NO he just signed a billion dollar subsidy to “Mercado Libre” the eCash monopoly owned by the richest Argentinean Galperin ~5 Billion of declared wealth
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Are Argentinians at the finding out stage of fucking around yet?
The entire world is in the find out stage.
Yeah, we are still finding out the consecuences of the idiotic economical decisions of the prior government.
And do you think the economic decisions of the current government are going to make things better?
Well. They changed from idiotic to completely deranged. So no
Economically, i hope so. Socially, it depends on how fast we can adjust… and we are not famous for being adaptive, so I expect that it will ultimately crush as all.
I feel for you guys (Argentinians) because almost every politician in the past has led you to this mess - and now you’ve elected a genuine nutter because, I guess, people felt they had nothing to lose. Good luck. I hope you guys get your country together soon.
There is a common trope in Argentina citing and old quote, i think its from Maistre. Los pueblos tienen los gobiernos que se merecen, ~“Countries have the governments that they deserve”. We surely deserved the krichners and now we also deserve this lunatic.
A social worker I know asked a villero (far lower class) who was he voting for prior to the general elections, and he answered for Milei. The social worker then replied that with Milei, the villero will have nothing to eat. He replied that he doesn’t have anything to eat now, but with milei, you won’t either.
Argentina has been broken for a long time
What that Villero said to your friend has helped me understand the rise of this type of politician all across the world far better. If it wasn’t so sad it’d be funny. I hope you get to fix your country one day and all your people then live a good life.
Oh, is the fascism not working?
Who could’ve possibly seen this coming?! Austerity for thee (poors) but not for me (rich).
fascism? since when is anarchism fascism??
Milei
Anarchism
lol
Anarcho-Capitalism is a form of Anarchism
No, it isn’t. Anarchy presupposes an ethical community where people aren’t actively trying to fuck each other over.
Since capital inevitably pools in the hands of the wealthy without invasive centralized regulation, “anarcho-capitalism” is an oxymoron designed to distract you from its inherent fascism.
I’m not a world authority on anarchy but pretty sure Anarcho-Capitalism is a made-up term. A bit like saying vegetable-meat. It’s an oxymoron. Anarchy and capitalism cannot exist together regardless of what people may wright. They’re fundamentally incompatible.
“We’re going to do the exact same thing Nigeria did. But this time, it’s going to work!”
“Oh no! It did the exact same thing that happened in Nigeria!”
We are doing what Ecuador did in 1998… which ended with the biggest economic crisis in 100 years in 1999
What is worrysome is the seeming practical impossibility to oust these men in power from their seats.
Violence is the great leveller.
Current technology would like to have a word.
I feel like the angry yelly guy with the silly mutton chops wasn’t giving “fiscally responsible” vibes at any point.
I honestly do know what the Argentinians would have done. the previous government thought it was a bright idea to present the minister of the economy for the presidential election. A chihuahua would have sufficed to win. Instead a Goofy lion got in.
@racsol
Fixing the mistakes of leftist economic policies does not happen in a few months. It might be prudent not to vote in those people every x years.
It is certainly very early, but how long will we have to wait to evaluate their success or failure? Or will it be the typical “just one more term”?
Brexit was the perfect example of how this works: one direct policy change, clear predictions from experts what will happen, clear statements from EU, clear success/failure criteria (better trade deals, stronger economy). 7 years later if couldn’t be clearer how complete failure it was but the party that did it is still going strong. Their excuse? The idea was right but the execution was flawed. Also it’s still better then what the other party would have done.
It will be the same in Argentina. Whatever will happen they will simply claim they did the right thing, it’s their opponents sabotaging their work that responsible for the failure, it would be even worse had they not done it, they are the only ones that can fix it. People expecting that everyone will just agree that what they did was stupid are delusional. It never happens.
That is a good question which I’m unable to answer. But I can be certain that a few months isn’t enough. If by the end of Milei’s full term things haven’t improved, I can accept calling this a failure.
So how exactly do you think the current administration will fix those mistakes?
If we’re talking specifically about inflation, stricter monetary policy, currency changes Milei has suggested, lowering the deficit, free market policies (stopping price controls for instance) should fix the situation.
If these things are successfully implemented, it should lead to increased trust in the economy, which in turn will help everyone, poor the most.
What’s to stop corporations from exploiting consumers if there are no price controls? Free Markets don’t exist in our current world, especially not in any developed countries. Lowering the deficit? Okay. Sure. Just lower the deficit.
Do you know how to lower inflation? It’s to raise interest rates until you force a recession. Increased trust in the economy? How do you know?
What’s to stop corporations from exploiting consumers if there are no price controls?
Competition is the main force. Of course things like ownership and other basic rights need to be enforced by the government. There are sometimes cases where the markets are working so badly that price controls might not be the worst option out there. But usually governments use it too easily, and for a known reason. Because it’s the populist thing do: it gets them get votes with practically none of the responsibility of the mess they make.
Free Markets don’t exist in our current world, especially not in any developed countries.
This is one the main reasons why they remain on that stage instead of climbing to (or staying in) the 1st world. Because they don’t have free markets. Bolstering free markets is what I believe Milei is trying to do.
gives an actual answer, gets downvoted anyways
I’m sorry, my Dude
Actual answer does not automatically mean right answer.
It’s a Text-Book answer, I don’t know what’s not right here.
The question is “what will the current administration do”, not “what is the textbook way”…
I cannot know what the current administration will actually try to do and even less what they will actually achieve, but Milei has certainly talked for all of the policies I’ve listed.
Exactly. It reads as someone who doesn’t understand what they wrote. And it’s still not correct.
It’s all good, I hide those things and Lemmy doesn’t have The Algorithm anyway. At least yet.
Which policies are you referring to?
- Print loads of money
- Economy goes to shit
- Implement price controls when the riots start
- Print yet more money because the core issues have not been fixed and people keep rioting
- Going to IMF cap in hand for more money with a pinkie promise to not do that shit again
- Do that shit again
- Suprised Pikachu.gif when it goes tits up yet again
Rinse and repeat every few years.
How are any of those policies Leftist in nature?
Please point out where I stated that.
you clearly blamed the inflation on leftist economic policies, then you listed a set of steps that have nothing to do with leftist politics.
So I didn’t state that. Thanks for clarifying.
What a silly waste of time.
oh my mistake: you didn’t say it was leftist policies. you came into a conversation where that was the topic, and listed a bunch of things that have nothing to do with leftist policy, and then refused to answer a question about their relevance.
I’m not an economics guy, when you say “core issues haven’t been fixed” what is meant by this?
They keep doing the same thing again and again without fixing anything.
Imagine you earn $5k a month, but you spend $10k a month. You will eventually run out of credit and will go into default then bankruptcy.
This is what Argentina is doing.
It’s also what America is doing, but so far she is getting away with it, mostly because she can just keep printing as many dollars as she wants as it’s the reserve currency and therefore easy to inflate away the debt.
And remember, every bit of inflation is spending power out of your pocket. Remember what $100 bought you ten years ago?
Keynesian economists think this is fine and you can just going like this forever (running a country isn’t the same as running a household, duh!). Those people are idiots and apparently don’t understand basic math, but unfortunately they are running the show right now.
Eventually the good times will stop. The results will be catastrophic when this happens. People will die and more wars will break out. Even first world countries will not be immune.
Only question is when. For both Argentina and America and everyone else.
You can earn 5k and spend 10k if you get a pay rise of 5k next month
In practice they spend a few percent more than they take in taxes and grow by a little more or less than that. COVID was a big jump in real debt but other than that it’s generally stable ish
It’s not obviously unsustainable
Thanks for explaining that to me. I’ve heard the US can print money because they own the debt, or something to that effect.
So do you agree with the idea that Milei’s austerity measures will work in the long run? If you do, is there historical precedent to guide that belief?
So do you agree with the idea that Milei’s austerity measures will work in the long run?
Probably not. The politics won’t allow for it: everyone’s thinking is short term and nobody cares about 10 years down the line. He will be blocked and sabotaged and removed before this gets to play out. Then the money printer will go brrrrrrrrrrrr
If it’s allowed to stick, then yes, it should work in the long term, with some short to medium term pain. It’s not impossible but it seems unlikely to work out that way. Maybe enough Argentinans with a long memory and basic math skills will allow it to happen. But don’t count on it.
Similar to how an addict has to get off the drugs: hurts in the short term something fierce, then it gets better over time. Except here the drug is free money. Of course, many don’t make it.
If you do, is there historical precedent to guide that belief?
Every fiat currency has eventually failed. Going right back the Romans and probably before that. When the greedy idiots in charge learn they can print money seemingly without consequence, then they will print.
I still struggle to understand how you believe it “should work in the long term.” I would like, but i understand if you dont have, some kind of example where these measures have worked before.
When you say basic math it makes me feel like I’m missing something.
