These are normal numbers compared to ice vehicles. Vehicles lose 15% to 25% in their first year.
Oil baron propoganda
Yes, exactly my thoughts… it is usual ratefor used cars
All cars, including electric cars lose 25% value after they’re sold. The concern is about longer term resale value. A 10 year old electric car is worthless. It would need a new $15,000 battery to continue operating. A 10 year old combustion car can still be worth more than half its original value.
It’s more about the maintenance cost of the used EV, the main one being a battery that costs as much as the car.
Yes, and replacing the battery essentially gives you a new drivetrain. It would cost near the same price to replace an ICE engine and transmission (using dealer pricing), hence propaganda.
Not at all. An engine for a 15 Sentra is $4000 new. Find me a 15 Sentra that is that low in price. Maybe in the private market with multiple hundreds of thousands of miles, but not at a dealer with reasonable miles.
Replacing a battery does not replace the drive train, it is like replacing the gas tank. The drive train would be the electric motors, which to my knowledge do not have a service interval, and are not even a fraction of the cost of a battery pack or inverter/module you have to replace with it.
source: twenty years working on cars and selling their parts.
You forgot about the cost of a transmission. Your 20 years don’t seem to be helping here.
You’re trying to compare apples to apples in terms of functional components, but that’s disingenuous and completely misses the point. I’m comparing the most expensive components that degrade over time and with use as a cost of ownership - both ICE and EV have expensive components that may need to be replaced after many miles and time, discrediting one and not the other is asinine. Every ICE I’ve owned has gone to the scrap yard, but somehow it’s only a problem for EVs, which BTW can have 99% of their lithium recycled and re-used.
The discussion at hand is battery powered vehicles and the used market cost. Not cost of ownership, not most expensive part, but the second hand market. Which with a battery powered EV you have to take much different precautions when purchasing one in the used market compared to an ICE vehicle, precautions the average person does not think about or know.
A transmission for a Sentra is $1500… still not equal to a Leaf battery pack, taking that argument further.
I have never bought a new car, and have sold every single one to someone else, who is either still driving it or has sold it to someone else. The fact that you scrap cars so readily lets me know you have no idea of value of an ICE vehicle, let alone an electric powered one.
You can get a Nissan leaf with 30k on it for under $8000, the battery cost $12k. The replacement batteries cost as much as the second hand value of the vehicle. Until that changes , battery powered vehicles will mostly be ewaste once the battery dies.
Exactly this. I read about a guy buying his daughter a used electric car for $12k only for it to need a $16k battery like 3 months later, and to make matters worse, they don’t sell the battery anymore. Then last week I watched a vid about how Hyundai wants to charge you $60k if you scratch the scratch plate under your car as they wont service the battery located there, just just write the whole thing off.
Until there is government mandated, removable, interchangeable batteries- I don’t see how this will get better. There needs to be a system in place for battery exchange, repair, recycling, and regulation. Imagine if you could only buy gas from the company that makes your car, and they could decide to stop selling the special gas for your model any time they wanted.
I don’t think batteries as we have them now are the answer at all, and need to be treated as the stopgap they were. There is better technology now that would be economically better, though power output and range would be considerably hampered. We need an alternate power storage solution.
Battery costs and electricity costs are the reason an EV isn’t even on my radar. I’d rather invest that possible EV money in solar.
I did the math and an ev would be about 1/8 the price in electricity versus gasoline. I don’t know what backwards place you live in, but that’s not the norm. Then there’s the lower cost of maintenance and repairs which further makes EVs cheaper.
There’s less maintenance, but repairs are more expensive. After a minor fender bender, expect to add an extra zero to the bill for repairing an EV versus ICE.
My dealer told me the same thing. Everything is more expensive for EVs.
They sell them to rich people only…
And early adopters who didn’t know better.
A few years ago, it looked like after you factored in the savings from cheaper electricity versus more expensive gasoline, and the lower maintenance costs, the true cost of owning a $45k Tesla was about equal to the cost of owning a $25k ICE car over 10 years, with most of the savings coming from significantly lower maintenance costs in years 5-10. However, it turns out that the cost of unscheduled repairs is so much higher that the true cost of owning an EV is significantly higher than a basic model ICE car.
Really waiting for hydrogen. Right now it’s not viable, but it feels like it’s the only option that could actually save us. Would love to have a tank in my yard for my house and car, or possibly through pipes like natural gas. Many problems to solve there too unfortunately.
Not sure about a tank but I’d pay for a regular delivery & exchange of fuel cells for my house if hydrogen tech ever gets there.
Hydrogen needs too high of a pressure (thousands of psi), and is much more volatile than natural gas.
I’m not saying never, but it’s tough.
I fully understand the drawbacks of hydrogen, and why we physically can not use it right now. But if we had that as the long term goal and treat chemical batteries as a micro-short term stopgap, I can’t help to think we would be a lot closer than we are now.
Replacing the battery makes it essentially a new car from drivetrain perspective.
Also, Leafs typically last as long as gas powered cars. Gas cars have the same problem - the entire engine and transmission are expensive to replace and the car is usually scrapped. The problem you outline is not unique to electric cars.
Why does everyone say replacing the battery gives you a new drivetrain? It would be like replacing the gas tank. The drivetrain equivalent in an EV would be the electric motors.
They’re uninformed, or fanboys. 10k for a battery might get your range back to stock, but you’re still going to have worn cv axles, control arm bushings, wheel bearings, and ball joints that typically start needing replacement after 100k miles. There are still bearings on the motor, gearing to the differential, and winding insulation that also wear with age. I’d expect those to last 250k easy, but to think a new battery is a panacea for your clapped out commuter car is asinine.
$10k gets you the battery pack, but then there is the controller you need to replace as well, a good $4-8k. Plus the labor, +$300/hr for a certified technician. Meanwhile, my 2007 mini can get the engine and transmission swapped for $7000, with performance modifications and labor included.
ICE BAD ≠ BATTERY GOOD
Don’t electric motors last pretty much forever?
It’s equivalent because in an ICE car the big cost to replace is the engine and the big cost to replace in an electric car is the battery
There is maintenance you have to do, bearings that can and do fail, windings that fail.
The problem is the percentage of that cost compared to the second hand value. A full ICE drivetrain for a FWD car is not the same price as a fully functional second hand ICE vehicle. Whereas a battery back can be the same to double the price of a functional second hand battery EV. You can also rebuild an ICE drivetrain, or buy used there as well, things that aren’t yet possible with batteries.
ICE sucks, and we need something else, batteries suck just as much in different ways.
Thanks for the info.
You can fix individual cells in a battery pack so some are repairable.
I think batteries are the answer we are just in thr early days of this tech still.
Replacing cells is far from simple and can be deadly if done wrong by someone who does not know what they are doing. Wet chemical batteries are terrible at storing energy compared to dry chemical batteries and super-capacitors, which are both close to mass production, but far from being implemented in the automotive world right now. I agree they are good for what we have now, but need to be replaced with something more sustainable, save and clean.
This is just an unfortunate system where progress is so fast an old model is out of date.
A 50,000 car might cost 55,000 new in three years. But a 50,000 electric car is going to cost 45,000 new in 3 years. Of course than means it is going to lose value because of substitutes.
Also while the old cars had battery issues there is a lot of propaganda about electric cars from the fossil fuel industry and people that don’t want progress.