cross-posted from: https://rss.ponder.cat/post/165736
At least in the U.S. and Canada, that is.
This was brought to my attention thanks to a Reddit post where a user (presumably a resident of Canada), had posted how Lenovo was shipping laptops with Fedora and Ubuntu at a cheaper price compared to their Windows-equipped counterparts.
Others then chimed in, saying that Lenovo has been doing this since at least 2020 and that the big price difference shows how ridiculous Windows’ pricing is.
Cutting the Windows Tax
When I dug in further, I found out that the US and Canadian websites for Lenovo offered U.S. $140 and CAD $211 off on the same ThinkPad X1 Carbon model when choosing any one of the Linux-based alternatives.
US pricing on left, Canadian pricing on right.
Interestingly, while the difference in pricing is noticeable, your mileage may vary if you are looking for such laptops on the official website. Not all models from their laptop lineup, like ThinkPad, Yoga, Legion, LOQ, etc., feature an option to get Linux pre-installed during the checkout process.
Luckily, there is an easy way to filter through the numerous laptops. Just go to the laptops section (U.S.) on the Lenovo website and turn on the “Operating System” filter under the Filter by specs sidebar menu.
Yes, it’s as simple as that. You can do the same for the various official online regional storefronts that Lenovo runs to see whether Linux-based operating systems are being offered on their laptops in your country.
Closing Thoughts
It is good to see that Lenovo is offering Linux in its laptops. In fact, there is another big-name laptop manufacturer, Dell, who also does something similar with its Ubuntu-certified laptops, but both have the same constraint of having limited options for buyers.
Also, as far as I know, Dell doesn’t reduce the pricing if you choose Linux instead of Windows. Correct me if I am wrong in the comments.
Nonetheless, I think these manufacturers could do a better job in marketing these Linux-based alternative operating systems to general consumers, showing them how they can save big when opting for these instead of the pricey and bloated Windows.
Otherwise, we might have to start observing Windows Refund Day again.
💬 Your take on this? Would mainstream users benefit from having Linux pre-installed on their laptops?
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This is awesome and I love it. Maybe they could even take a few more dollars off by not having any OS installed (bypassing the labor costs of imaging an SSD). I’ll be installing my own copy anyway, so I’m fine with a blank SSD.
Those manufacturers where you can select either Linux or no OS don’t charge extra for Linux.
I mean it’s like maybe a dollar or two for the labor costs, so that’s understandable. I’d still prefer just a blank SSD anyway.
It’s likely done in an automated way by the same equipment that tests the hardware, so costs are probably more along the lines of a few fractions of a penny, and imo shipping any device without an os at all is a bit silly as they could very likely end up in the hands of someone without the capability or equipment to image them.
It would probably cost more to deal with the complaints that arise than they’d save on labor installing Ubuntu or Fedora.
The cost is actually negative given that they get to pre-install whatever software they want into it.
For someone that wants to install their own OS, it coming with an OS installed by default is 100% irrelevant because you’d be plugging in a bootable drive on first boot up anyway.
No. If it does not work you can’t be sure if it is your fault or the device is broken. This will lead to support costs for the manufacturer
Why can’t you?
Because 99.999% of the time the hardware you’re buying is different from the hardware you have prior experience with. Even if the model numbers are the same there could be a change in hw or fw revision that breaks compatability with whatever drivers you previously had success with.
You’re installing an operating system though, that’s irrelevant. You’re telling me the people that want their laptop to come with no OS because they want to install their favourite version of Linux because they’re “l33t haxors” can’t tell the difference between broken hardware and incompatible drivers? And they’re installing Linux? Where drivers are one of the biggest issues?
That’s great! - But. But, I hope some people check it out carefully. Some years ago, Lenovo middle-man’d the SSL root certificate on laptops so they could inject ads into Https web pages. (And spy on users? Steal passwords? Manipulate bank accounts? I hope not…)
I wonder what they could hide in an own Linux install?
Dell did the same thing - in the same year too.
You should always clean install your OS. Let the guys wanting to spy on you put some effort in.
Really?! Do you have a source? I’d like to look this up!
https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-remove-dells-superfish-2-0-root-certificate-permanently/
It’s actually called eDellRoot, not Superfish though.
You can safely assume that probably every manufacturer did or still does similar thing - whether they’re caught is another story though.
Oh, wow.
Do you have any reputable articles of this? I’m interested cheers
Thank you that’s appalling and I’m glad I build my own pcs
Just look it up. It made the news rounds about 10 or so years ago. It was a big deal at the time. Just about everyone covered it and Lenovo acknowledged it and, IIRC they apologized for it
Apologizing and stopping are two different things.
We used to undermine the security of our customers systems.
We still do. But we used to, too.
And? I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make.
“Sorry we broke into your security on purpose.”
“We’re sorry we’re facing consequences. We’ll take action to make sure this doesn’t happen agian.”
It kinda blows my mind that “no OS” isn’t the cheapest option
It’s the same reason that you have to pay more to stream videos without ads…
Yeah, smart TVs with no OS are way more expensive than the ones riddled with ads as well.
I changed to the projectivity launcher on my Android TV and it was night and day in terms of performance. No ads. The UI doesn’t change every other week to make me look at some new show I don’t care about. I can literally just hide everything I don’t want to see.
I should probably look into actual entire OS swaps available for my TV but I don’t have the time. Changing the launcher and using ADB (over lan) to disable updates and apply some optimizations was worth the day it took me.
Turns out the hardware on the TV is fine. The software was just complete garbage and got worse with every update.
Now if only I could fix the UI in the actual apps like YouTube. But still it’s a lot better. I’ll probably install the YouTube alternative app one day when I have time.
My wife started using the TV over her tablet after I changed it. She said she hated how slow it was to just turn on and start that she just would go to her tablet instead.
So… Windows is an ad delivery system.hmm, it makes sense, because as an operating system that’s the only thing it does well is show ads.
Stremio doesn’t charge me more. I dont know why anyone would pay to stream. Or not block ads.
Well, these services do require money to run. If everyone were as ‘clever’ as you are then we’d have little content indeed.
I seem to recall in the past Microsoft pressured manufacturers to not sell computers without an operating system, arguing that unscrupulous consumers would install pirated copies of Windows on them. A ridiculous argument, but it was the excuse they used.
It would probably cost more to deal with the complaints that arise from shipping without an OS than they’d save on labor installing Ubuntu or Fedora.
If they could ship a computer with the option upon first boot of Windows, Linux, or no OS without having to pay license costs of Windows that would be fine, but that’s not how it works. 99% of people want Windows. Any laptop shipping with no os would just be sent back a few months later after sitting on the shelves for a few months.
No way thats 99%
Out of windows and linux, it’d be close to 99%. Linux’s desktop OS marketshare is 4% according to a quick google, Windows at ~70%, MacOS at ~26%. Since MacOS isn’t an option on these, the choice between Windows and Linux would likely be 96% Windows, 4% Linux.
So sure, I’ll admit I got that wrong - not 99%, 96% based on 2025 marketshare.
2025 is the year of the Linux
desktoplaptop!I would really like to see broad support for TPM-backed FDE, which also requires secure boot to work to implement this properly.
For me, this is essential to have for feature parity with Windows on laptop.
other distributions should start having an option for this in the GUI installer, but it might be tricky for the average user
Arch Wiki has a guide on FDE using the TPM and it’s transparent in my everyday usage
some minor issues I see are:
- Secure Boot needing to be disabled then re-enabled during install for it to work as intended
- needing to write down a long backup passphrase, but this also happens on Windows and MacOS iirc
I would love to have secure boot for a customized distro. it only really needs to attest the firmware and the bootloader because they can’t be encrypted, which would serve as a form of tamper protection
Let’s not have tpm at all instead.
As long as the user owns the TPM and has full control over it, I don’t see a problem. I paid for that hardware. I want to use it. There are already tools that can talk to it. It’s just not fully implemented and integrated into the system in a secure fashion.
Compared to just having a startup password, the TPM can help enforce that the software I’m typing my password into hasn’t been tampered with.
With the right support, it can even be combined with the password. This lets me enforce that the drive only unlocks in this machine, with this password, and only with the software that I approved. That’s certainly more secure than how most distros do FDE today.
Here in Europe it was possible to buy almost all laptops and desktops from Lenovo without OS preinstalled since long time, saved a lot of money that way. It’s nice that they officially offer Linux now.
Installing my own OS is half the fun of getting a new computer. Why would I want the manufacturer to install an OS?
a nice 140 usd discount sounds like a decent incentive
Oh, windows certainly isn’t an option. The options I’m weighing are “pre-installed Linux” and “tabula rasa”.
freedos ftw
Good way to check that all the parts are working before putting whatever you want on it.
you get the discount + you can reinstall it yourself/install a different distro + it shows the general market how much of the cost is due to a Windows license and other OS alternatives, creating more informed consumers
i see it as a benefit
But why not “blank drive”?
probably just not worth the additional logistics
Easy enough to do that ourselves really, this is just for normies.
Idk maybe so you can start using it?
Nothing is stopping you from throwing out the OEM install.
Because laptop manufacturers don’t make laptops for people who want to install their own OSes. The average tech illiterate just wants something that works out of the box.
majority of consumers don’t even know how to decline cookies on websites, let alone how to install windows, or that other thing that’s called limix… or what
Least of all, Windows, the telemetry software that lets you play games and sometimes be productive. Terms and conditions may apply!!1
I thought OEMs only paid like $10 for Windows?
they tend to make money off it due to the bundle deals and commissions and what-not.
a major oem charging $140-200 is all profit.
Perhaps it’s a direct response to the tarrifs, as well as an instance of a Chinese company finding a way to fuck over an American company now that trade relations across the board between the US and PRC are juddering to a halt.
It says they’ve been offering this since 2020
It’s usually 10% of the device MSRP for windows pro.
There are some very low cost devices that get it for $10 for windows home…
Looks like this was Windows home. Windows pro was a $ upgrade.
I think you misunderstood what’s being discussed. In this post, all Windows versions cost money. It’s just they bake it into the advertised price and say Linux is a reduction, which means you’re paying the difference if you choose to go with the default. It isn’t free, no matter how they display it.
Seriously? Go back and read carefully.
In the post, Linux has a “negative” cost. In reality this means it’s closer to the base cost and the “free” Windows is baked into the price, not actually free. Both versions of windows have a cost. One is higher than the other though.
Just for you and your misreading: the previous guy said Windows Pro is 10% of MSRP. Well you open the pic in the original post and surprise it’s 9% MSRP for Windows Home version. Aka just for you; you pay 9% MSRP for Windows HOME edition, aka everyone knows it’s not free because you just paid 9% of MSRP for it. Windows Pro edition is a $ upgrade from the HOME edition, which for this offer puts Windows Pro as 13% MSRP. Not the 10% the previous guy thought. The only person that misread and couldn’t follow the post is you.
I wonder what the labor is to install it. Well I guess it’s the same labor as Linux.
Anyone know how they do it? Do they plug the drive into a cloning machine before installing it in the computer?
They have an image of the OS that they copy on the SSD for each machine.
Everything about devices like these is done without employees manually doing stuff on them.
I wonder what the most manual part of the whole process is
Probably QA tbh. Other than that I’d think it would be plugging some of the delicate ribbon connectors in.
Computer companies tried that for a while like 15 years ago, too.
Except now you don’t need to run proprietary software. Everything is online. If Chromebooks work for 90% of users, Linux will work for even more.
The timing here with compatability getting better could be a huge difference maker.
Absolutely. I’m just saying its not a novel idea.
I quite like their laptops but they put the most horrible keyboards I’ve ever used. I’ve had chronic rsi and my fingers physically hurt less than 8h of use.
Do they have high end laptops (32g RAM, top i7 or similar, for Android development) at reasonable prices with good keyboards? I’ve been on Xps for a while.
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my shop uses HP Elitebooks and Lenovo ThinkPads and users typically prefer the Elitebook keyboard but this is a comparison of only 2 midrange models with a sample size of a few hundred so your milage may vary.
I have an elitebook g450 and a yogo 380L. They’re both nice in their own ways but the g450 has a better short travel.
I actually prefer the Lenovo keyboard to any other laptop keyboard in existence. Be it HP, Dell, Microsoft, Asus, Acer or otherwise.
I bought a laptop without a Windows license from Lenovo years ago. It came with FreeDOS, if I remember correctly. I wanted to install Linux, so I didn’t care. In some areas they’ve been offering this for a while now.
I got an ASUS laptop with FreeDOS back in 2015 for the same reason. Had to upgrade the HDD and RAM, but It still works like a champ.
I’m in the UK, and last year got a Lenovo ThinkPad laptop with Linux pre-installed that was cheaper than the Windows equivalent. I had a choice of RAM, SSD, display and OS. Ubuntu was the only choice of Linux, though.
How much does an OEM windows cost these days?
2 pints if you’re Peter Thiel’s blood type.
Your in luck, Thiel is a universal reciver
Weird, I didn’t peg him as a bottom.
Can’t exactly remember, but I think it was about £50 cheaper not to have Windows (Home Edition) installed.
I’m very new to Linux and a very casual user but I’m really loving it. I also can’t afford the existing Linux laptops, and I am on the market for a new machine. So yeah I’d buy a cheap laptop that ships with Linux. If it comes with a discount, that’s even better!
I would personally get a second hand cheap laptop off ebay or a local 2nd hand electronics store, and then just install the distro of your choice on it. Can’t really think of an instance where a computer would come with an OS and I’d just use it as-is rather than installing my own, but I guess if you want a fairly generic eg Ubuntu, Fedora, Debian, Mint, etc setup then it could work. But definitely don’t limit yourself to preinstalled laptops, since installing an OS only takes an afternoon if you pick an OS with a more fine-grained install like Arch or Gentoo, and about the same time as installing user software for distros that have more streamlined installs.
The new framework 12 starts at $700. Cheaper if you BYO RAM and storage.
Oof I’m too much of a casual to install my own RAM on a laptop, I’m too scared to break something! As the other user commented, a good second hand laptop is probably better anyway.
Cheaper? Yes. Better? No. Recent years have yielded massive advancements in many areas but very specifically, efficiency, meaning less noise, more power and better battery life. That’s fine if those things aren’t important to you.
I have been running popos on my x1 for some years now. Only had problems with audio not working from one day to another, but other than that it has great support from Lenovo. Even the 4G modem has privat official drivers.
Similar experience with Fedora on a P14s. Everything just works, including the fingerprint reader.
Awesome, with Ubuntu too!
Fantastic development. I got the “last year’s” model of a Lenovo Legion gaming laptop for work a few years ago bc it was one of the few affordable models that I could find at the time with a second m.2 slot. Expandable memory was a nice bonus. Love the keyboard, too. Been really happy with it. I run Kinoite on it.
