I don’t fit very well with the idea of masculinity. I’m just a goofy nerd with a gentle personality and the desire to make others happy. I have always wanted to look soft and approachable; I have smooth, rounded facial features, wavy hair, big glasses, and a clean-shaven face. My personality is utterly non-threatening. I love caring for people, I enjoy being silly and whimsical, I’m a bit clumsy and get flustered easily, I wouldn’t hurt a fly (unless I had to), and I’m polite to a fault. My paradise is a warm, cozy, quiet safe haven surrounded by cute plushies.
I’m not manly in the slightest, and I love being that way. I’m a total softie through and through, and I purposely align my appearance with my personality. I look gentle because I am gentle.
I have always been treated differently than my male peers. Many people are inexplicably nicer or softer on me even if they barely know me. Female friends have fawned over me, calling me things like “cute,” “adorable,” and “sweetheart,” and expressing a desire to protect me. And I love it. I don’t find it offensive or infantilizing at all.
Through extensive introspection, I later figured out that care and nurturing are incredibly attractive to me, and the funny tickle I felt whenever I was shown care and protection by my female friends was actually a subtle tinge of attraction. It’s rather curious that my personality and gender expression just happened to develop in such a way to subconsciously solicit that kind of attention.
This is all well and good, but I worry that this makes me categorically unsexy due to my intentional suppression of gendered characteristics and desire to give off pure, wholesome vibes. Could I really be sexually desirable if I’m the kind of person who apologizes to trees for bumping into them? Some women have even teasingly called me a “Christian” or “virgin” because of this perceived innocence, suggesting that some people do indeed associate my personality with sexual restraint or abstinence.
In reality, I absolutely do want a sexual relationship, and I have always imagined myself treating a partner with the same gentle caregiving energy that I myself crave. I don’t do “naughty” or “dominant”; I would view a partner’s body as something to passionately take care of, not something to tease or conquer.
I would appreciate some outside perspective on this. Thanks!
Theres a fish for every net, my friend
Well you appeal to most women? No. Will you appeal to some women? Absolutely.
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What is your “most women” based on, personal experience?
It’s not that deep. The vague “ideal man” that most women would find attractive. Think your Henry Cavils of the world. “Manly” men.
When you intentionally stray from the traits that women are biologically wired to seek in a partner you’re gonna lower the number that find it attractive. Like I’m sure some deer are still attracted to the buck that loses every fight. Just not as many as the one that wins all its fights.
How do you know this is biological and not a social construct? I am afraid your opinion is based on a lot of stereotypes.
… Based on science and reality. There are endless studies that in general women are more attracted to “masculine” men. Strong looking deep voiced men. Even more so when ovulating. Same way men are hard wired for big boobs and wide hips. Monkey brain wants to make sure our offspring survive birth and are well fed.
Obviously I understand that many people stray from those biological/evolutionary preferences but they are still the average/norm for most hence my first comment.
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https://www.colorado.edu/asmagazine/2010/12/01/fertile-women-want-macho-looking-men
Or just Google it for yourself and read any one of the many many articles talking about the subject in various different and specific ways.
Or just look at the men that most women are attracted to in general and see what characteristics they share.
I understand women are not a monolith. I was careful when I said “most” not all.
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There are lots of studies saying that intelligence, a great sense of humor, and wealth are very attractive to women too. What if OP was a PhD, stand up comedian by night with a great job at a university and a wealthy family? I mean, we are not monkeys in the end.
Bi and pan girls have entered the chat.
Behind every golden retriever boyfriend is a black cat girlfriend.
Oh I am well aware. My current FWB is pan and I am not a manly man’s man. She is obsessed with me even though I do not fit the description of traditional masculinity.
I make her laugh and climax (not always in that order) so my physical appearance is pretty much irrelevant. It’s a wonderful thing.
bro that is manly as fuck. keep doing you because it’s hella manly to be gentle and caring and nurturing.
you need to stop worrying about all that “not alpha/sigma male = not attractive” self-doubt. you also need to stop worrying about your attractiveness. you’re already attractive to some people. just find people you really enjoy hanging out with one on one, and eventually you’ll land a partner.
This. Exactly this.
Trying to be what others consider desirable or normal is really just a kind of lack of strength in your own personality. True strength is when you can be yourself, don’t pretend and simply live the way you want to be. Your friends will be true friends because they will know you without pretense. Anyone who doesn’t find you attractive in this way is the wrong partner.
Not only can you do that, in some circles you will need to wear a lifejacket to keep from drowning in pussy.
Rather than worry about trying to be universally attractive to everyone, think about the type of partner you want to be attractive to. There’s certainly no shortage of potential partners who are into that. Anyone who isn’t wouldn’t be the right fit for you anyway.
For me, it boils down to someone who’s nurturing and physically affectionate. I envision a relationship that’s cuddly and caring on both sides.
I probably could have phrased my original question better. I don’t care about being “sexually desirable” to as many women as possible; I only care about being desirable to enough people that finding someone to start a relationship with is a practical possibility. This post is about my lack of understanding of how sexual attraction fundamentally works. I’m essentially asking if sexual attraction is highly polarized—targeting either strong masculine or strong feminine presentations—with minimal reaction to more androgynous presentations.
I don’t believe it is at all polarised. I’ve had friends who found me attractive and came onto me when I had long hair, but aren’t into me now that I’m more masculine looking.
Attraction is certainly primal on some level, but I don’t think we’re simple enough to have our preferences work in only one of two ways. The key is to know what you want, and have access to the side of yourself that embraces those desires. It is a simpler matter for some.
Echoing what I’m seeing others say, always know that you’re someone’s type. It’s hard to imagine there’s not a Steven Universe fan out there who would see you as way out of their league.
I don’t care about being “sexually desirable” to as many women as possible; I only care about being desirable to enough people that finding someone to start a relationship with is a practical possibility. This post is about my lack of understanding of how sexual attraction fundamentally works. I’m essentially asking if sexual attraction is highly polarized—targeting either strong masculine or strong feminine presentations—with minimal reaction to more androgynous presentations.
Added emphasis, as it kind of answers your own question. Being sexy to someone isn’t universal. There’s certainly things more women tend to find sexy; but it’s not an absolute by any means. Think of all the happily married people you have met (assuming you live in a fairly large community). Or even consider all of those in long-term relationships. Not every man in every relationship is super fit and sexy, right? Nor were all the men such when they first met their partner. It is not a requirement! And if you know enough such couples you’ll realize appearances of the men in them run the gambit from hot-bod to dad-bod and beyond. And if fact most people in happy relationships are far from the media archetype of “sexy male” as you allude to in your original post.
Not every woman is a lingerie supermodel; not every man is a bodybuilder or Hollywood heartthrob. Yet so many people are able to find relationships where they each find each other sexually desirable. Just randomly scroll through strangers (real poeple) on a social media of your choice and you’ll see happy couples with all variety of body types and appearances.
Yeah, definitely. Women who love guys like that are more common than people think. I know a bunch. I married one. Stay upbeat and financially self-sufficient and you can find someone who’s right for you. The idea that you have to be a tough guy to get dates has evolved from a misconception to a fucking psyops.
By the way, as a bi guy, I have never considered a man “adorable” or “a sweetheart” unless I thought I’d enjoy dating him. I must presume that women are often the same way.
I see no issue here. A man can absolutely be ‘cute’ without being any less of a man. Masculinity isn’t about rugged looks, strength, dominance, or any of that shit. It’s about self confidence (not arrogance, just being comfortable being yourself) and giving to others, both of which you seem to do well.
Honestly, I’m surprised you haven’t found a partner to match you yet.
No one is “normal” it doesn’t exist. It’s one big social hallucination. Look inside yourself and trust who you are. That is the most attractive thing I can think of. You are good.
I am the exact same way. Good on you for acknowledging it and recognizing it. I love romcoms, Jane Austen movies are some of my favorites, and ffs I literally made and mod the Taylor Swift community here. I’m very straight, but also in touch with my own emotions. All of masculinity says that I would never find a woman and that I’m doing everything wrong.
Except I’ve been married and ina committed relationship for well over a decade now. My wife loves that I’m open with who I am. (I took her to the Eras tour!).
Toxic males are sexist in many ways, but one is that they think of women as single thinking people. That women want hot guys with fast cars, and that you’ll never get one without. That’s like saying that all men like playing dnd, or all men want to drive a big truck. It’s asinine. There are over 4 billion women on this planet, and a good many of them do not care what kind of truck you have. In fact, most of them would think you wasted your money on it.
You are attractive, probably very attractive. Your post makes it clear to me. You receive attention of multiple women, and some of them are even making advances on you. Manly men are in crisis, in my opinion. Feminism all around is putting the concept of the manly man in question, and you, my friend, are the next step, like the X-men mutant to the human being.
In any case, what’s a man, anyway? They will tell you all kinds of zombie answers. As someone raised by women and two absent masculine figures, I just don’t get it. Learned to set limits with bullies the bad way, always taking advantage of the situation cowardly, but effectively, and I don’t regret kicking them while they were on the floor. What I mean is, if it works for you being all cute, be cute by all means, but if you want to have sex, be all the cute you want saying that seriously; otherwise, people, women, will take you for a prude, maybe even gay, and I don’t know why, but that’s been my experience.
Be yourself. Don’t let other men show off by demeaning you, don’t let women think you’re some kind of a monk, especially the ones you are attracted to. Those are the limits.
EDIT: just to clarify, there’s nothing wrong with being gay, but it hardly works to project that idea if you want to get intimate with the opposite sex.
Leaning into this will probably garner attention from the right sort of women for you. The ones attracted to “traditional masculinity” (which is kind of a trap in some respects anyway) probably wouldn’t be attracted to you sexually in the first place, based on what you describe here. So you don’t really lose anything by what you plan to do. Go for it!
And if anyone gives you guff about it, tell them to fuck off (or whatever response appropriate to your vibe, but carrying a similar message, works best).
You do you. Someone will love you and it’s better that they love you than a you you’re pretending to be.
Just wanted to say that our modern ideas of masculinity are far from universal and largely ahistorical. It’s okay to be exactly who you are.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Male_Renunciation
Coined by British psychologist John Flügel in 1930, it is considered a major turning point in the history of clothing in which the men relinquished their claim to adornment and beauty. Flügel asserted that men “abandoned their claim to be considered beautiful” and “henceforth aimed at being only useful”.
Not being traditionally masculine does not make you less of a man.
The man who moved me most in life was a sensitive, artistic, nervous, sweetheart of a man, whom I doted on, had him sit on my lap while he cried, cuddled and kissed him until he felt better, called him sugary names (lamb, darling, sweetheart), pet him often, and just absolutely loved on him.
Men often get upset if you refer to them as “cute”, and I was unable to feel any of them put me on equal footing before him. The fact that he was emotionally open and outright with his feelings was what had attracted me to him in the first place. I am absolutely not a “dominant” person, but my desire to protect and love him in this was something no other man even allowed me the opportunity to do.
I recall saying that something was “cute” while we were out, and he quietly asked “am I cute?”. The answer was, of course, “Yes, darling! Of course you are!” If he wanted me to, I would have moved all the stars in the sky for that man.
Men (often secretly) desire to be desired, and it is weirdly seen as a more feminine urge. However, men who identify as masc can still desire the sensitivity of desire. Nothing feminine about it.
There are women out there who will desire what you have to offer. It may be a search to find them, but they are out there.
The man who moved me most in life was a sensitive, artistic, nervous, sweetheart of a man, whom I doted on, had him sit on my lap while he cried, cuddled and kissed him until he felt better, called him sugary names (lamb, darling, sweetheart), pet him often, and just absolutely loved on him.
The fact that he was emotionally open and outright with his feelings was what had attracted me to him in the first place. I am absolutely not a “dominant” person, but my desire to protect and love him in this was something no other man even allowed me the opportunity to do.
I feel dizzy because you literally described the moments I desire to a T. The doting, the sugary nicknames, having a non-domineering woman in an empowered position of loving protection… I have never read anything that so precisely and succinctly captures the exact ideas that I worried were just my own.
Your comment is exactly what I have been looking for—solid evidence that what I desire deep down exists in the real world and can be created again. If I am to trust the anecdotal evidence in this thread, then that finally settles it for me. Relationships just like the one I desire are out there. Women who are compatible with me are out there. I just need to get out and find one.
Thank you. This is one of the most reassuring things I have ever read.
I was really worried I was rambling!! Glad to know that you will be searching with renewed vigor. Enthusiastically wishing you all the best! (:
Good sir,
The yoga community is starved for healthy male presence (practice at most studios as a man and you will be a distinct minority).
This community values the same gentle and nurturing approach you have realized that you embody. The fact that you are introspective, respectful and self aware just makes it an even better fit for what you describe.
I cannot think of a place more accepting of individual differences and the persona you describe would be very welcome in those spaces.
I wouldn’t recommend this to someone who was just a pussy-hound, it wouldn’t be welcomed.
Yoga is a sex-positive and body-positive philosophy that doesn’t focus directly on sex usually, but instead helps one become a more rounded person, part of which is healthy relationships that may include physical intimacy.
You seem to understand boundaries and respect. So this suggestion is more about how to build the kind of community where your unique gifts are valued.
I have built many valuable relationships through my practice, most all non-romantic but all very supportive. From that foundation however, my more intimate relationships have improved immensely too.
My two cents
