Oh cool we’re back in … 2010? and we’re doing FBI crime stats discourse again, except this time we’re doing the breakdown by gender instead of race.
My god, I am a cis male and I don’t feel threatened or targeted by this. I think there’s a reason why certain men feel attacked.
I should have expected to see a bunch of whining when I opened the thread.
I’m also cis male and I am worried about strange men coming near me at night when no one is around. Because, you know, muggers and shit. They murder sometimes too. Does that make you whiny little bitches’ hurt feelings go away?
My brother is a cis male too, he was assaulted and robbed, by two males (at least seemingly so, can’t exactly say what they identify as 6 years later).
Just a bunch of males who only complain about the statistics of men being harmed when women talk about systemtic sexism. They’d probably also loudly claim that white people are victims of racism too when a black people talks about being harassed by cops.
Fucking hate Reddit 2.0 for this shit.
Well I was just called a bigot for daring to say that calling quoting the statistic that men commit more murders than women sexism is no different from calling quoting the statistic that most crimes in Sweden are committed by white people racism. So there’s no probably about it in my mind.
Same people will gladly hurl slurs and sexist remarks then call it misandry when a woman said she doesn’t need a man with a dildo, or reverse racism when a black person said they enjoy spices in their meals.
Heaven forbid that woman say she doesn’t need a man because there are other women.
Because you are solipsistic & are desperate to get into the pants of a woman, that’s why
tfw you can’t see women as anything other than sex objects and you just assume everyone else is like you
Don’t need to, yo momma already lets me in nightly 😎
Reading the comments make me feel like I’m reading 4chan. How are people getting triggered by that post
Reddit is 4chan with account, .world is trying to be reddit 2.0 by it’s admins, not a shock.
A healthy take that will surely result in good faith discussion.
lemmy.world mods finding out that they’ve cultivated a community of reddit incels:
When the Reddit 2.0 copies all the worst parts of Reddit: 🤯
This from a user on an instance that’s known for their open villification of any opinion that goes against the moscow and beijing dictated groupthi–
Wait, wait hold on. Could it possibly be that we both have deeply subjective views of the other large instances, because humans fall to tribalism faster than a kitten on a sock full of catnip? Maybe there’s a vested interest on every side to keep the early adopters of a decentralized social media platform infighting over meaningless stereotypes based on the letters that come after their username, making value judgements based entirely on dictated preconceptions instead of experiential conclusions and honest interaction?
… nah, probably not. And besides, it’s way more fun to just sling mud. Screw u, u commie scuzbucket.
SJW here and I just wandered in, but now I’m grabbing the popcorn and a seat
This from a user on an instance that’s known for having a large amounts of transphobic, homophobic, misogynist and racists users and a mod team that doesnt do the bare minimun to deal with them
Where are you going where you see that much of it?
… Then why are you here, participating with that which you revile?
because unfortunately lemmy.ml federates with lemmy.world. even if we were to block lemmy.world on an individual level, the toxicity and hate coming from it affects and influences users of other instances. better to push back against you dweebs whenever you try to incite misogynistic hate than just cover our ears and pretend you aren’t here fucking things up.
Oh good, we agree then. There’s a certain necessity to engage with opinions counter to our own instead of pretending they don’t exist, even if it’s personally uncomfortable to do so.
i counter them out of necessity, but ideally i’d rather the lemmy.world admins do that since that’s supposed to be what they’re for.
So you’d prefer the admins allow you to pretend they don’t exist? I know that’s not what you’re trying to say, but its not an unreasonable extrapolation of your position from the comments you’re making. You feel the need to fight for what you believe in because it’s right to stand up for what you believe in, but you would rather you didn’t have to. I think that’s probably the most universally agreeable statement I’ve ever heard, sincerely. I would, too, like for this to be the case. We just disagree on how to achieve that happy state of affairs, though it’s nice that neither of us prefers a solution like “round up all the .ml/.world users in a big camp” unlike, you know, real world opinions…
Could it possibly be that we both have deeply subjective views of the other large instances, because humans fall to tribalism faster than a kitten on a sock full of catnip?
nope, it’s because your instance is operated by people who refuse to moderate disinformation under some naive belief that enough debate bro-ing is all it takes to defeat it, failing to understand that the effort it takes to proliferate hate and disinformation is much smaller than the effort it takes to refute it. as such, lemmy.world is becoming overrun with some of the most toxic motherfuckers on the entire platform because all the sane people are being driven away.
Ah, a blanket denial of everything I said. How glad I am that I’m above petty things like pointing out the comically stereotypical behavior of users from other instances. It’s nice up here, on the Mountain of Sarcastic Moral Superiority.
As an actual counterpoint, the primary way that new users get onto lemmy is always going to have the highest concentration of toxic users. Society is, if you haven’t noticed, incredibly toxic. Commonly espoused ideas like trans people being human or civil rights being important aren’t commonly supported by society at large (source: the entire world right now). The easiest way for people who support those things to find their way to instances where those ideas are popularly held is to join the most popular instance and see both the need for other instances with heavier moderation, and what those instances are. How many people hear about blahaj or sh.itjust.works before signing up to lemmy, vs. sign up there as their second account? Personally, I’m pretty grateful that the most toxic opinions are largely self-segregated into a place where people aren’t required to interact with them. It’s less pleasant, sure, but it’s also the best place in the fediverse to get an accurate idea of what the real societal opinions are. And if it gets to be too much, I can always just flee .world (or .ml, I mean seriously guys) like a base coward and spend time under one of my alt accounts on a more heavily moderated instance like .blahaj instead.
that isn’t necessarily true though: you don’t see other popular instances of fediverse platforms having these problems when they actually put effort into enforcing rules that protect the community and discourage disinformation and hate speech, and it doesn’t make them any less of a gateway for new users.
the staff on lemmy.world promote disinformation, and that does not benefit any of us, especially when disinformation has a way of spreading that the separation of instances alone isn’t enough to prevent. most are still either directly federated to lemmy.world, or federated to instances that are federated to lemmy.world.
toxicity itself isn’t inherent to society but a consequence of how our current society is set up, and social media platforms that deliberately proliferate disinformation play a role in that. if you want to actually counter hate and disinformation the first step you should take is to stop outright encouraging it and fight it at the source.
also, implying people are cowards for wanting to flee your hate instance is despicable and privileged-ass take. fuck you.
also, implying people are cowards for wanting to flee your hate instance is despicable and privileged ass-take. fuck you.
That was pretty clearly self deprecating. Who in the hell calls someone else a ‘base coward’, anyways? For that matter, who would even take seriously being called a base coward? I think you might genuinely be treating everyone else as hostile as a means of self defense, which while understandable is in itself incredibly (edit: exhausting is a much better term) to interact with.
I have real comments here, along the lines of what you mean by promoting disinformation and the moderation standards you would prefer to see, because those are sincerely interesting. But come on, what’s the point in trying to have a discussion when you treat everything like an attack on you & yours? I’m not even trying to be hostile here.
it’s self-deprecating but has hostile implications toward the many users who really did leave to escape ill treatment toward them. marginalized people get enough of that in real life after all. i don’t think they should have to endure it at all, nor do i think it’s cowardly to want to avoid it. if i’m reading too much into this and that wasn’t your intention, i’m sorry. though i’m really not sure how else to interpret that.
when i say lemmy.world promotes disinformation, i’m referring to their recent announcement that they would require community moderators to entertain disinformation in the name of having open debate. they redacted that announcement following the backlash if i recall correctly, but it is nonetheless reflective of how they have been moderating things on their instance, which is apparent in threads like this one that stir the pot and bring out all the rabid misogynists that have been tolerated and continue to be tolerated on here. the lack of moderation toward these things aligns with what they stated in that announcement, that these are ideas we should be open and fair to.
the problem of course is that being open to disinformation alienates the marginalized people affected by it, harms the people who would be deceived by it, and only serves to benefit the people who would spread it. it’s a lot easier to fight disinformation and bigotry by stopping it at the source rather than letting it fester and then trying to take it down with debate. we all know how difficult it is to argue in good faith against those arguing in bad faith. it takes no time and no effort to just make something up, but more time and effort than most people even have the energy to give to refute it with fact-based evidence.
we’re in the midst of a social crisis with the rise of the incel movement and MRA influencers. those who follow these things are more emotionally invested in them than logically, and near impossible to get through to. you might be able to convince a few undecided readers if you put sufficient effort into your replies, but ultimately the spread of these movements are much faster than the handful of individuals who make an effort to stand against them. a lot of us just don’t even have the time. we need support from those who are in the position to actually take preventive measures against them.
The world would be a better place without us. I feel ashamed for existing.
How is this not bigotry and discrimination toward a group of population?
I’ve seen the same post in far right groups just changing the word man by some racial slur. Same energy. And also same bigots trying to justify their intolerance with shitty stadistics.
Because men are statistically more likely to commit violent crimes. Targeting both men and women. Women are just easier targets because they are physically weaker.
in some places people of certain skincolors or descents are more likely to commit certain crimes so that’s not really an argument.
The better argument IMO is that the racist versions target discriminated minority groups, while this one targets the group that is generally not the victim
lol
lmao, even.
Get your pet bear to walk you!
I’m gonna miss being a cis gendered man sometimes.
What and guys aren’t worried about being murdered by other dudes at night? Lol
https://www.victimsweek.gc.ca/res/r512.html#:~:text=In that year%2C men were,a weapon used against them.&text=Young men under the age,-corporate area)%20than%20women.
Statistically men are more likely to be attacked, robbed, sexually assaulted (in a public institution) and shot than women.
Men are more likely to be murdered in general.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/423245/us-violent-crime-victims-by-gender/
Violent crimes happen to men more than women on average.
I am a HUGE advocate for women staying safe. I think more women need to purchase and properly learn how to use a personal high speed lead slinging device.
HOWEVER I do not care for this claim that women are always the victims. Statistically they aren’t more frequently attacked or murdered. In fact they are slightly less likely to be victims. Bad people are gonna do bad things and everyone should learn to protect themselves against those bad people.
DOUBLE HOWEVER Men are overwhelming the perpetrator of violent crimes against everyone. More than 75% of violent crimes is committed by men.
At the end of the day everyone should stay safe. Keep your head on a swivel. Obtain and learn how to use a personal defense tool. Be smart.
Forget about it, there’s no talking or reasoning with man-haters
It’s going to be fun when the GenderKKK attacks these male-feminists, because they’re men
I routinely would go on long walks at all hours of the night (like 3am), with headphones on. Ive done this in the US, Brazil, and Europe in all kinds of neighborhoods. I was a 180lb male and I somewhat consciously and subconsciously would put on the lunatic vibe of “I am the one who knocks”.
Now I started my transition, down to 150 lbs, dressing more feminine. Still have a decent amount of muscle but Truuust me, the vibe is not the same. This meme is valid.
I do not care for this claim that women are always the victims.
who said this?
honest query. I don’t see it in OP’s statement. You do corroborate their premise -
Men are overwhelming the perpetrator of violent crimes against everyone. More than 75% of violent crimes is committed by men.
so why the strawman argument at the start?
You said this, this entire thread
I personally have mad bo staff skills. I fear no man. Grizzly’s scare me, but no man.
You write like you are disagreeing with something in this post, in your own small pathetic way. But I fail to see what part of the post you are disagreeing with
I wonder if the murder rates are skewed by organized crime/gangs. That has a male skewed gender ratio and high murder rates.
Gangs drive murder rates. Looking at areas in the US without gang activity, the murder rate is almost as low anywhere else in the world.
Almost certainly.
Unfortunately it’s very difficult to pull apart big data sets accurately. It’s difficult to pin down what murders are for sure gang related and which ones aren’t. Obviously there are some situations where it’s very clear, but some where it is not. Where you draw that line changes things significantly.
Unfortunately it’s very difficult to pull apart big data sets accurately
The actual fuck? It’s significantly easier to pull apart large data sets, especially to answer demographic questions like this. This is literally Data Science 101, you’re just making shit up!
They’re not interested in evidence or discussions
It’s a hate-movement
almost certainly
This does not jive with the tenor of your first comment which tries to equate violence against women with violence against men.
Did we read the same comment? He was pointing out statistics around males, not downplaying the statistics around women.
Isn’t it interesting how whenever women come up someone has to rush to point out men as victims, as if to talk about women detracts from that?
Curious.
He’s just making stuff up anyway. It’s not difficult to pull apart those data sets. The information is readily available. It just doesn’t show the first thing that came out of his mouth is correct.
So of the photo was of a man, bit with the same text it would be ok. Right? Both you, me, and the woman in the photo agree that men are the problem.
“Not all men” agreed, but enough to men to make others afraid.
True. The caption doesn’t imply any gender for the potential victim, it just happened the original poster is female.
If they have to post any statistics at all, it should only be about the criminal, which they did but with a Google AMP link grrrrrrr
Wow. That is a whole lot of getting your undies in a wad over a meme that does NOT exclude any gender feeling this way.
You brought a bunch of bias to this one. Might want to look into why that is
username checks out
I dunno feels to me like you’re the one getting upset about his post and not vice versa.
There are shittons of rape & murder fantasy communities with secretly taken & stolen pictures on porn & snuff websites, on the snuff websites there’s unfortunately also real stuff.
This is something I really didn’t want to know. I wouldn’t want to walk in the shoes of my gf honestly just judging from the amount of harassment she faces in liberal, progressive western cities by men of all age & skin color (need to say this nowadays unfortunately). Add to that being physically inferior that creates a sense of being constantly threatened. Also, they are targeted specifically because they are women and femicide is a real, bad issue.
Not disagreeing that anyone could be affected, just saying I can easily walk at night because no one would target me specifically for being a man.
Clearly you’ve never been jumped lol. It’ll give you a whole new perspective on the world and walking around alone as a guy.
I find it gross that you referred to your own girlfriend as “physically inferior”. I think the better term is physically at a disadvantage.
Since you’re talking to a complete stranger on an anonymous platform it makes no sense to make any assumptions like that.
English is not my first language, in case that was an offensive formulation I apologize.
But your response definitely makes me question your intentions.
I apologizing for assuming. You said something along the lines of “nobody would jump be just because I’m a man” which tells me you haven’t been assaulted by random guys before in your life. They absolutely will jump you for no reason regardless of your gender. I posted those exact statistics in my first comment.
And the word “inferior” has a negative connotation connected to it. You usually use it to describe something that is worse in every way. For example: “I only use zip lock bags because other plastic resealable bag brands are all inferior”.
Your comment about your girlfriend taken at face value came across very sexist. Which is all we can do without knowing someone, how was I supposed to know English is your second language? You use better punctuation than me and it’s the only language I know lol.
no one would target me specifically for being a man
I think you’ve misunderstood. The commenter is not saying that random attacks don’t happen to men, that’s obviously true. But those attacks won’t target you specifically because you are male, which is an additional justification for violence that women have to deal with. I’d argue it’s even more common than women being targeted randomly - or even that random muggings/assaults are actually random. I mean, who’s jumping people that they think are a threat?
I blame women.
For not murdering enough. The streets would be safer if men had the same fear.
Men are killed more often. But men generally have less fear. We go boldly unto death.
That’s not being bold, that’s supression of risk assesment and reduction on consequence sensitivity. Brought on by testosterone.
who’s killing the men?
I blame women.
😡🍴
For not murdering enough
😮💨👍
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I mean, most women probably have experience with cleaning up blood.
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I wonder if that’s throwing off the statistics.
ive had 2 (and a half) nosebleeds this week, can confirm.
(I’m fine it’s just the dry+cold weather)Cold weather plus cocaine has that effect
I blame women.
For not murdering enough. The streets would be safer if men had the same fear.
Wow calling for the death of innocent people based on gender.
The fuck is wrong with Lemmy upvotng this.
its a joke fella.
I’m thinking more of a voluntary program.
That shadowm’n on her 1am walk is gonna go away quickly if I’m with her and she ices me right there in the Applebee’s parking-lot 🫠 she’s allowed to do it. It happens all the time…
Ah, misandry, my old friend.
Where is the mention of the victim’s gender in this meme? If there was a man in a picture, not a woman, do you think the text would be less true? Do you feel comfortable walking somewhere at night when some strange man starts walking up to you? I sure as hell don’t despite my possession of a penis.
ah yes misandry is when women don’t just shut up and accept disproportionate violence from men
On 196 they love pictures of women punching men. But post the opposite and instaban.
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Violence is bad no matter what gender is doing what to whom. Is there a problem?
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Yikes. Someone makes a gender based overgeneralization when overwhelming evidence (look at crime stats) proves it incorrect, and those that dare to defend that group get attacked.
Bigotry is bigotry. If you hate a group purely based on their superficial membership, then you are bigoted.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot#:~:text=noun,group)%20with%20hatred%20and%20intolerance
The strongest argument you have is when you compare violence perpetrated by gender. But even then, that doesn’t support your argument that all men are evil in some way. And at such low numbers, it’s disingenuous deflection b/c even the two summed up don’t account for even 1% of the population. Sad that so many of you have brain rot.
does the post say “all men are murderers”? no, it doesn’t. it is however true that a disproportionate amount of men are murderers, especially compared to women, the number of whom that are murderers of men or other women are so statistically low compared to men that it isn’t even worthy of consideration.
men, generally, are far more likely to commit acts of violence than women. and the number of men who do, while not the majority, is high enough for women to be afraid of men in general.
under our existing patriarchal social conditions, men are murderers. they’re more inclined to violence and present a higher risk than women. saying “men are murderers” doesn’t mean “all men including you are murderers” it simply means that the threat is near entirely comprised of men. you should also be aware that we also don’t think that this is inherent to being a man but a manifestation of social conditioning under patriarchy that encourages such behavior in men.
lol, i literally point out how your retort is flawed, and you bull head through it anyways.
What’s funny but somehow escapes the terminal basement dwellers is that the majority of productive women do not worry about this b/c they understand how stats work. But bigots are never smart enough to even understand basic stats.
you didn’t cite any actual statistics, meanwhile throughout this thread people have been citing stats that prove you wrong. violent crime between men and women is not equal, and women are disproportionately victimized by it and men disproportionately cause it.
and yes, i’m fully aware these statistics compare violence by gender. no one is saying that because the majority of violent crime is committed by men, that the majority of men are violent criminals. you’re being obtuse and missing the point on purpose.
with that said, the number of women in total affected by violence, sexual violence especially is indeed high anyway. even if it isn’t all men, it happens enough that all women have to live in fear.
It’s not hard to find how low the crime stats are. FBI posts them yearly. It’s called google.
Obv you don’t get how to make a statistical argument if you bull headedly stuck with it. In the end, while you’re busy preoccupied by the gender distraction, a good amount of us are furthering the real divide, class. And well, while you’re still repeating your tired, pointless arguments, productive people (men and women) are leaving you behind…happily.
Simply put, you can’t say “too bad men are murderers tho” or any other derivative when you use a stat that doesn’t actually support that argument. But again, bigots aren’t the smartest lot.
Have a nice night.
i actually posted the FBI statistics in my reply. you didn’t. you didn’t even fucking read them i bet.
you can’t liberate the proles without the liberation of marginalized groups among them. stop pretending to be a comrade in class struggle when you’re just a misogynist and opposed to what we stand for.
Yea, but the stat doesn’t support your argument lol
Also, your assumption of my misogyny is completely unfounded. However, your misandry/bigotry is an full display. It’s all good though. Your bigotry will hold you back for as long as you hold onto it. I, on the other hand, will continue to work with my colleagues, men and women. We work well together b/c we actually understand how to dissect an argument and how racists/misandrists/misogynists/bigots lie with stats…like you’re doing now.
it literally does. you don’t even understand my argument.
good luck having women work with you though, i’m sure they’ll love how you downplay their experiences with sexual violence because “not all men are bad”
Woman: “I and every woman I know have had some really bad experiences with men”
This dude: “Actually, you’ve had bad experiences with a small minority of men. Why do you hate all men?”
And of course your common sense take is getting downvoted. (Edit was -2 when I posted). They should get the bears to protect them.
Lol pretty much. Bigotry is bigotry. You’ve got no moral high ground here.
That’s like saying that “the majority of crimes in Sweden are committed by white people” is bigotry. It’s not bigotry, it’s fucking statistics.
No, the argument is that the overall number of crimes is so low you can’t make any population inferences lmao
You bigots demonstrating they don’t understand sound argumentation.
So you feel totally safe walking alone at night and a strange man starts approaching you, right?
Because my penis sure doesn’t make me feel safe in those situations.
Where is the victim’s gender even mentioned in the meme?
Also, I would suggest calling a mod a bigot on a community where the very first rule is “be respectful” might not be the smartest thing for you to be doing.
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god forbid women have a perfectly reasonable fear of the people who make the streets unsafe for them to begin with
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I wouldn’t say I love murdering, but it is a neat little hobby to pass the time.
Just one little murder… As a treat.
I hear some people get over the cravings with a homicide patch.
Luigi: “Treat yoself!”
Luigi is the Robinhood of our times.
That’s not murder, it’s defense of innocents
I’ve earnt it this week!
Would you like to join my Hobby-Murder-Group? We meet twice a Month to drink, smoke and play MarioParty and murder of course.
I’m trying to cut down myself.
Getting your star stolen in MarioParty is probably the leading cause for most of the murders.
No those are suicides.
