They’re going downvotes because their comment makes no sense. If both parties are exactly the same, why does it matter whom people vote for? Either tell people to stay home, or admit one side is worse. How can you not see that?
I would agree if they either came from Lemmygrad, or were saying to vote independent/not vote. Maybe I’m being more charitable towards them than most, but their comment reads to me as someone disillusioned who thinks both parties have their own priorities that aren’t the people.
I’m not trying to be obtuse here, but let me get this straight:
It’s Russian propaganda for someone to say that both of the only two viable parties in the United States election suck?
The way I’ve been categorizing it has been whether the person is trying to encourage others to abstain from voting or voting for a third party. In my opinion, expressing an unpopular opinion is different than trying to get people to waste their important anti-Trump vote.
The way I’ve been categorizing it has been whether the person is trying to encourage others to abstain from voting or voting for a third party.
Sounds like you’re only categorizing it as propaganda if they explicitly call for someone to not vote. “Both sides suck” is essentially the same thing, just without the explicit call to inaction. Not to mention the secondary benefit of painting over the GOPs crimes by making it sound like the dems are just as bad.
I see where you’re coming from, but I’m going to have to respectfully disagree that the default view of these claims should be that they are propaganda.
If someone claims “both sides suck equally” or “the Democrats are just as bad,” I agree with your assessment. It’s disingenuous to frame the Democrats as being “as bad” as the Republicans when the latter are actively destroying our rights and championing a traitorous, fascist cheeto. The Republicans are undeniably worse, and anyone suggesting otherwise is either on their side or severely lacking in critical thinking skills.
That being said, I still don’t think it’s fair to treat “both sides suck” with the same level of distain as “both sides are equally bad.” Indiscriminately dismissing opinions which point out the Democrats are also bad in their own (or similar) ways only serves to silence disapproval towards them. The Democratic Party isn’t perfect, and they’ve made their share of mistakes in the past. While this election isn’t the right time to rag on them, it’s also not the right time to exonerate them and let them be above criticisms.
That kind of approach to grouping “both sides suck” with “both sides suck equally” and dismissing it as propaganda is also disproportionately silencing people with radically progressive views. A moderate liberal isn’t going to have anything to complain about, but a “communist” (socialist) is more likely to take issues with the Democrats not taking a harder stance on pushing for things like universal basic income, more government oversight, higher taxes for the 1%, etc.
That’s a fair and reasonable discussion to have when it’s clear that all parties are acting in good faith and agree that voting Dem is the best thing for our country, currently. I do have those discussions in some safely blue spaces.
Lemmy is not that space. If someone on Lemmy says “both sides suck” without very clear and specific caveats that the Republicans suck exponentially more, I think it’s fair to assume they’re spreading propaganda. Even with those caveats, it’s not a discussion worth having because it will become a lodestone for propagandists.
At what point did they say both parties are exactly the same? They said both parties are evil, and both parties support colonialism. The commenter is evidently disillusioned with the two party system, but they aren’t stupidly saying to not vote Democrat. They’re asserting that neither party will make the country better.
While the idea of better is highly subjective, let’s try being charitable and see it from the commenter’s viewpoint: They sound like a socialist, so let’s assume they want political reform and more legislation to protect the poor or working class. In the current two-party system, everything is gradually shifting right. The Republicans are more brazen about their goals with shit like Project 2025, while the Democrats only have to be less regressive than the Republicans to have a successful platform. The Republicans don’t want reform, and there isn’t any incentive for the Democrats to implement progressive changes (such as implementing RCV, banning gerrymandering, introducing SCOTUS term limits, etc.) when they can be equally successful by simply reverting the damage done by the Republicans. Considering that perspective, they’re correct in saying neither party will make things “better.” The part that isn’t said directly but can be inferred is that one of the parties will make things worse much quicker than the other.
It sounds like you think that you can give a party a letter grade, like there’s a linear scale with “bad” on one end and “good” on the other. Parties are going to be better on some issues and worse on others, and of course it varies from politician to politician, too.
They’re going downvotes because their comment makes no sense. If both parties are exactly the same, why does it matter whom people vote for? Either tell people to stay home, or admit one side is worse. How can you not see that?
No, they’re downvoting because it’s obvious Russian propaganda.
I would agree if they either came from Lemmygrad, or were saying to vote independent/not vote. Maybe I’m being more charitable towards them than most, but their comment reads to me as someone disillusioned who thinks both parties have their own priorities that aren’t the people.
That IS Russian propaganda. “Both sides”.
I’m not trying to be obtuse here, but let me get this straight:
It’s Russian propaganda for someone to say that both of the only two viable parties in the United States election suck?
The way I’ve been categorizing it has been whether the person is trying to encourage others to abstain from voting or voting for a third party. In my opinion, expressing an unpopular opinion is different than trying to get people to waste their important anti-Trump vote.
Sounds like you’re only categorizing it as propaganda if they explicitly call for someone to not vote. “Both sides suck” is essentially the same thing, just without the explicit call to inaction. Not to mention the secondary benefit of painting over the GOPs crimes by making it sound like the dems are just as bad.
I see where you’re coming from, but I’m going to have to respectfully disagree that the default view of these claims should be that they are propaganda.
If someone claims “both sides suck equally” or “the Democrats are just as bad,” I agree with your assessment. It’s disingenuous to frame the Democrats as being “as bad” as the Republicans when the latter are actively destroying our rights and championing a traitorous, fascist cheeto. The Republicans are undeniably worse, and anyone suggesting otherwise is either on their side or severely lacking in critical thinking skills.
That being said, I still don’t think it’s fair to treat “both sides suck” with the same level of distain as “both sides are equally bad.” Indiscriminately dismissing opinions which point out the Democrats are also bad in their own (or similar) ways only serves to silence disapproval towards them. The Democratic Party isn’t perfect, and they’ve made their share of mistakes in the past. While this election isn’t the right time to rag on them, it’s also not the right time to exonerate them and let them be above criticisms.
That kind of approach to grouping “both sides suck” with “both sides suck equally” and dismissing it as propaganda is also disproportionately silencing people with radically progressive views. A moderate liberal isn’t going to have anything to complain about, but a “communist” (socialist) is more likely to take issues with the Democrats not taking a harder stance on pushing for things like universal basic income, more government oversight, higher taxes for the 1%, etc.
That’s a fair and reasonable discussion to have when it’s clear that all parties are acting in good faith and agree that voting Dem is the best thing for our country, currently. I do have those discussions in some safely blue spaces.
Lemmy is not that space. If someone on Lemmy says “both sides suck” without very clear and specific caveats that the Republicans suck exponentially more, I think it’s fair to assume they’re spreading propaganda. Even with those caveats, it’s not a discussion worth having because it will become a lodestone for propagandists.
At what point did they say both parties are exactly the same? They said both parties are evil, and both parties support colonialism. The commenter is evidently disillusioned with the two party system, but they aren’t stupidly saying to not vote Democrat. They’re asserting that neither party will make the country better.
While the idea of better is highly subjective, let’s try being charitable and see it from the commenter’s viewpoint: They sound like a socialist, so let’s assume they want political reform and more legislation to protect the poor or working class. In the current two-party system, everything is gradually shifting right. The Republicans are more brazen about their goals with shit like Project 2025, while the Democrats only have to be less regressive than the Republicans to have a successful platform. The Republicans don’t want reform, and there isn’t any incentive for the Democrats to implement progressive changes (such as implementing RCV, banning gerrymandering, introducing SCOTUS term limits, etc.) when they can be equally successful by simply reverting the damage done by the Republicans. Considering that perspective, they’re correct in saying neither party will make things “better.” The part that isn’t said directly but can be inferred is that one of the parties will make things worse much quicker than the other.
It sounds like you think that you can give a party a letter grade, like there’s a linear scale with “bad” on one end and “good” on the other. Parties are going to be better on some issues and worse on others, and of course it varies from politician to politician, too.
This comment is such a damning insight into liberal logic. Incredible.
They really see it in black and white. Blue MAGA indeed.