Mod Note: I’m bending the "no politics’ rule to highlight a disgusting trend I’ve been seeing on Lemmy lately. Due to the sheer volume of comments fitting that trend and the huge number downvotes given to anyone who speaks out against it, I’m convinced this opinion is truly unpopular in the Lemmy-verse. This is also topical and important enough to merit discussion or at least to provide a point of reflection. So while it touches on politics, that’s merely the framing device of current events being used to highlight a larger problem.
As you’re inevitably downvoting this, at least take a good, long look in the mirror while you do so.
The sheer number of people here praising the shooter, advocating for, glorifying, or just flat out calling for violence has been a real eye opener and litmus test for the kind of people I’ve surrounded myself with on this platform. Suffice it to say, a lot of you have failed that test spectacularly.
A rational, independent thinker should be able to condemn this kind of violence even when it’s targeted towards their “enemies.” Political violence has absolutely NO PLACE in a healthy society, and no one should be praising or advocating for it. No one. Ever. This is one thing that, regardless of the paradox of tolerance, should be universally condemned.
There are, apparently, a ton of extremists here that don’t see themselves as such because they believe their extremism is justified and that they’re on the right side of history. Ironically, which is what all extremists think.
This goes back further than just yesterdays’s events. For example, it’s been a common refrain since the Supreme Court presidential immunity decision that, paraphrased, “The current non-dictator president should do dictator things to stop the other dictator”. Which is just another flavor of “Extremism is bad except when it’s my flavor of extremism”.
Don’t give me that “it’s just gallows humor”, “I’m oppressed, and he deserved it”, “if you had a time machine, wouldn’t you go back to 1934…”, “we haven’t been a healthy society for X years…”, or other excuses. This is a BFD with major implications and ramifications, and y’all Lemmings are treating like we just missed the exit ramp to Utopia and are trying to find a wide spot to make a U-turn.
It’s certainly fine to have no sympathy for the guy (I sure as hell don’t), but it’s another thing entirely to be cheering on, promoting, and/or advocating for extremist stances like those being thrown out lately.
You say you want a better society? Then act like it!
Moments like this are the true test of one’s character and intellectual honesty, and I’m beyond disappointed in so many of you.
But we aren’t in a healthy society. If anything, this shooting is proof of it. This isn’t an excuse. This is a claim that your arguments will fall on deaf ears.
I’m not cheering this (I would go as far as saying that I hate what happened), but I don’t think people who have/are doing so, are displaying abject character or intellectual dishonesty. I think they are misreading the current political context, and I think nothing good will come of this.
Trump has caused unknowable deaths from the policies put into place during his presidency, and with Project 2025 would (will?) cause even more.
Pacifism becomes extremism when it cares more about policing and shaming those who vent their frustration at the current state of things. “missed the exit ramp to utopia” is a hell of a way to convince people to listen to what you have to say with an open mind.
Political violence has been happening for years, and this is what gets us a mod post ? I would venture that I am just as disappointed in my fellow lemmings as you are, but frankly, this feels almost as tone-deaf and unhelpful as those calling for blood.
Now is the time for constructive advice. Bandying about “extremism” helps no cause but that of inaction.
You want a better society? Go outside and organize. Help people feel prepared for their future. Leave those calling for blood on an online forum to be picked up by the feds and law enforcement. Or talk to people like you care about them, not picking up after the mess they will make.
People are dying of hunger, of lack of shelter, of preventable diseases, of working 3 jobs without breaking even, and they just saw one of the rich fucks that spent 4 years making their lives worse dodge death and supercharge his followers. Now you expect them to calm down because someone online invokes “rational, independent thinkers”, after preemptively accusing them of downvoting a post that they have yet to read.
Shooting Trump is not how we get through this. Making this post with this tone is not how we get through this, either. I don’t have the answers beyond “find a better way to get your point across or you will just push away those you are trying to reach”. Hopefully I have not, myself, fallen into the same trap with this comment.
The way I think about posts like this, as I tend to create them myself too, is that if it makes even one person stop for a moment, reflect on their behavior, and hopefully act differently in the future, then it was worth it. At the very least, I can’t imagine it making things worse. It’s also a kind of sanity-check for the minority of users who agree but don’t want to voice their unpopular opinion.
I do admit, though, that if the tone of my writing is so off-putting that it bounces off people, then my time writing it has been wasted.
Good point. There is certainly value in, and a certain need for, this kind of post.
Ideally we could find a way to do without them, but maybe that’s not possible with online, text-only interaction like this format.
I worry that a post like this tends to reinforce most people’s existing positions and behavior, rather than help them “cool off”. In that aspect, I feel like I can imagine how it makes things worse.
After some more thought, I don’t think OP’s post is making things that much worse. I’m doubtful as to how much it makes things better, but that might just be because it struck a particular nerve with me.
You’re not wrong, but step one of problem solving is admitting there is a problem (in this case, extremism).
While the post is (intentionally) harsh, it’s no less an accurate spotlight on the toxic attitudes being displayed by those who claim to oppose authoritarianism / fascism / whatever bad-ism but spout out opinions that amount to “but a little bit is okay when it’s my side doing it”
All this heated rhetoric is adding more fuel to an already raging fire, and that bleeds out into the real world with real world consequences.
All I’m asking is for people to look in the mirror, take a good look, stop encouraging/cheering/advocating violence, and try even slightly to turn the heat down.
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
I’ll admit, I haven’t yet looked at the modlogs so I’m ignorant of exactly what has made you feel the need for that level of harshness. I feel like too often, a conflation is made between “doing a little authoritarianism is ok when it’s my side” and “doing a little authoritarianism is ok when it’s a matter of life and death”. I suspect that I let that excessively color my impression of your post.
I’ll admit, even now, I’m not comfortable with the “look in the mirror” line. I don’t think someone openly expressing regret that the shooter didn’t kill Trump would be surprised by what they find in the mirror’s reflection. In fact, I almost expect that regular mirror-gazing is what leads one to feel the level of animosity towards trump that would be needed to say something like “if only he didn’t miss”. Then again, maybe I’m mistaken with how many are/have been saying that flippantly vs as the result of a lot of prior thought and questioning.
Otherwise I agree 100% with your last 2 sentences.