I lean toward “efficient entertainment”, but I do sometimes wonder what that chunk of my free time would look like otherwise.
There is currently a 20yo in Germany, working tirelessly to document every beetle in their province.
The world is large and diverse. Its fine.
I would imagine every generation had their vices (lack of better word) that previous generations harped on. Why back in my day it was MTV (ok, occasionally they were right). But I’m sure when newspapers came out it was similar to tablets and phones. When tv came out, the radio-heads bitched about the “idiot box”. So on and so forth. Any history buffs out there care to elaborate?
You can find newspaper articles from the late 1800s IIRC, that decry the slothful youth wasting all their time reading novels instead of playing outside like the glorious generation before them
Longer than that. 2500 years ago ancient greek philosophers complained about the youth in the same ways.
One of the oldest written works that we have, and can translate, was written centuries before the Roman empire and it is complaining about “kids these days”.
This crap has been going on for millennia.
The counts of the indictment are luxury, bad manners, contempt for authority, disrespect to elders, and a love for chatter in place of exercise. …
Children began to be the tyrants, not the slaves, of their households. They no longer rose from their seats when an elder entered the room; they contradicted their parents, chattered before company, gobbled up the dainties at table, and committed various offences against Hellenic tastes, such as crossing their legs. They tyrannised over the paidagogoi and schoolmasters.
It is commonly attributed to Socrates or Plato, but apparently the real quote was made by some student for his Cambridge Dissertation in 1907
Well, I’d rather the youth were reading books instead of watching 5 second clips
“idiot box”
it was called the boob tube
“Stop sitting so close, you’ll damage your eyes! Sit farther back!”
Thank you very much for sharing that article! t’s an awesome read.
Pastime I think is the correct term.
And then there’s the voynich manuscript, an old hoax/fantasy book documenting plants and animals that don’t exist, in a made-up language.
That some people have dedicated their lives to “noble” pursuits and others to “wasting time” is entirely a function of who is telling you the story and how much money they stand to make off that other person’s work. You get one life, do what you want with it as best you can.
Generations of monks did nothing but pray, work, and copy books for their entire lives. Is that a waste because they weren’t writing novels instead? Because every one of them wasn’t Mendel, obcessed with growing peas?
Play some video games, work on stuff if you want, or don’t. Most people in history worked very hard and have been completely forgotten, all their works erased. With how easy it is to share your work online, you could even be famous for being good at video games (speed running, lore analysis, gimmick runs, etc) which may not change the world but objectively has more impact on more living people than writing small business websites or small farming rice in South Asia.
It is not clear that the Voynich Manuscript is a hoax/fantasy book. The plant illustrations, whilst ambiguous, do look like plausible real plants (though some have features of multiple species), and while nobody has decoded the text, the letter and word frequencies are consistent with it being natural language rather than gibberish.
Perhaps you’re thinking of the Codex Seraphinianus?
Hey I just wanted to say, thank you for sending me down the rabbit hole of both of these texts. Fascinating!
Regarding the Voynich Manuscript, and to be fair to the person you’re responding to, with no current decipherment, there is a good possibility it’s a hoax.
Churchill acknowledges the possibility that the manuscript is either a synthetic forgotten language (as advanced by Friedman), or else a forgery, as the preeminent theory. However, he concludes that, if the manuscript is a genuine creation, mental illness or delusion seems to have affected the author.
Also the Codex Seraphinianus is much newer and self-admittedly describes an imaginary world in an imaginary language.
Anyway, thanks again for the Wikipedia adventure. :D
But I dont want to cure cancer, I want to make dinosaurs!
This answer scares me from a user named Mechaguana. You aren’t planning anything the rest of us should be aware of are you?
Just in case you’re not in on the joke:
Thanks for sharing the source! (Sincerely)
Literally listening to the author’s podcast as I came across this (Elliott Kalan, and he has a few podcasts, but the OG and my favorite is The Flop House).
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The time sink that video games demand
Video games don’t demand your time more than any other hobby… do you avoid woodworking because you’re scared you’ll make an elaborate wardrobe instead of a little box? Do you avoid swimming because you don’t want to go across the English Channel?
You can play small games and you can play for an hour a week, there’s no need to burn every hour of every day on it like a teenager.
I want a TV show about wood working addicts. Please Jeff, you must stop crafting intricate cabinets. No more driftwood tables either. I’m sick of cleaning up resin goddamnit.
I want a TV show about wood working addicts.
If you look around, probably on YouTube, I bet you can find episodes.
I can see some indie games as being easy to pick up and put down without a huge time commitment.* However, we shouldn’t discount the fact that a lot of games today, especially some of the “AAA” types, are purposedly designed to be addictive.
*Despite being a small indie game,
CracktorioFactorio will ruin your life. The factory must grow.Bigger games can also be quick. A match of rocket league is like 10 minutes. There’s no story so you can pick it up and put it down whenever you want.
We also live in the golden age of indie games anyways, plenty of smaller quality games that don’t demand all of your life. I haven’t played a AAA game in ages. The biggest games I currently play are league of legends and that’s cause I started when it was an indie company before it became AAA and ff14 and I only do ff14 like 3 hours a week or so with my fiancee cause she loves it.
It’s possible, but it can really change the type of games available to you too. I used to love Skyrim and similar, but eventually found I needed a minimum session of 2-3 hrs, otherwise I hadn’t even done any real playing, just inventory management, or getting crafting supplies. These days, with kids and work, I like rally simulator games, it can be satisfying to just do one or two stages, which can take as little as 5-20 mins. But it’s a whole different thing, no story, character development, surprises…a bit like going from watching Kurosawa films to watching the sports highlights.
Agreed. It’s the same reason I occasionally pop in Madden or 2K. I can play a game or two and then just be done with it.
It’s way too easy for people to be exploited through video games, just as with gambling, for it to be “just another hobby”. They can also become addicted.
Yes, it can be a very nice hobby; with some games you can even show something for the time spent (As in skills, not “achievements”).
But it can also become a symptom of dangerous reality abandonment. The worst for this is in my opinion still better than substance abuse, but a danger nonetheless.
Anything can be addicting. I knew a woman who was literally addicted to maraschino cherries. There are people who are addicted to work.
Anything done to excess is an addiction. So choose yours’ carefully.
Yes, everything can be, but games are designed to be addicting. Most are designed to keep you engaged as long as possible, some even to profit as much as possible from the player.
Almost everything you can buy is designed to be addicting. From video games to peanut butter. Because that’s how you get people to continue to use your specific product.
So choose your addictions carefully and try to keep them as under control as possible. Sadly, some can do that and some cannot.
True. This might be a more personal thing for me, which is why I felt the severity might be higher than it actually is.
Personal bias about addictions is a real thing and you aren’t alone. The shrapnel of an addiction can leave some pretty heavy scars on those who have to live around an addicted person. And it matters not a whit about what the actual addiction is.
If you have those scars, I hope you find internal peace.
Yes, it can be a very nice hobby; with some games you can even show something for the time spent (As in skills
Nah, miss me with this mindset. Not every minute of your life needs to be productive, you should have at least one hobby that you can’t show something for the time spent.
Agreed, not every minute needs to be productive.
Hobbies (like woodworking, to which I was trying to relate my text) can be very self affirming, especially if you get very good at them. I was thinking about this self affirmation, not about productivity when I was writing that.
For AAA, live service, “games as an industry,” sure. However, there are plenty of examples of games that are passion projects, respect your time, and have mutual respect with their community. You just won’t see them advertised on billboards.
This sounds like all of the people who were complaining about comic books back in the day. Or books before that.
I don’t like this thing, therefore it’s terrible and everyone should hate it and I am not prepared to have a discussion about it.
It’s the same thing every time a new far reaching tech is invented even the printing press was looked down on
It’s not video games keeping me from doing my niche interests. It’s my 60 hour a week job consuming all my mental resources. Then I have to go home and do all the other things necessary to keep myself alive. Not much left for getting immersed in cool projects after that.
Yeah the people who were cataloging all the species of beetles in Germany were upper class types. Most people in 1820 were tilling fields or working in desperately terrible factories.
The 1800s gave us the likes of Michael Faraday the 2000s gave us the likes of Hank Green.
Hank Green is awesome.
Don’t forget the insane rates of drinking and alcoholism in the 19th century.
That reminds me I need to swing by the liquor store I’m out of bourbon.
Came here to effectively say this. If we were people in 1820’s Germany, 99% of us wouldn’t have nearly enough spare time to even think about cataloging those beetles.
Everything in moderation. It’s important to find an outdoor hobby you enjoy and make time for when the weather permits and let video games fill gaps when it’s bit suitable.
Fishing kicks ass btw.
I will never understand fishing. You just throw the lure in and fucking wait.
I see it as an addiction like gambling. You put in some time but don’t always win. That causes a bigger positive feedback for when you do win.
Then the win is a delicious fish and you’re hooked.
And therein lies the catch. I don’t like fish.
Y’all don’t need to eat them. I have a friend that is a avid fisherman, he doesn’t like to eat fish. But he loves to go fishing and catch and release them. He even enters into fishing tournaments a couple of times a year.
Yeah sure but you’re missing my whole point. I do not see the appeal in fishing. I think it is boring and also you get nothing out of the activity if you don’t like fish.
Then you have missed the point of fishing and generally being a part of nature. Which differs greatly from simply being out in nature.
Yes I do not see a point in fishing that is correct. I do however like being in anture and being part of it.
I think there’s SOME element of truth to this, but there’s a lotta skill that can be applied to fishing. Also, most days I don’t even get a nibble but it doesn’t bother me. I just enjoy getting on the water and soaking up some sun in beautiful scenery. I’ll fish less “productive” waters for a nicer view.
That said, the other week I “caught” a lure I lost last season and that was a bigger rush than some fish I’ve landed.
and you’re hooked
Ayyyy
I think hunting and fishing are mostly an excuse for meditation or hanging out with friends. I have some family members in hunting/fishing geographies and they never seem to care whether they actually catch anything.
Yep. They have reached the understanding of what it means being a hunter/fisherman. While it’s nice to bring home something to eat, it’s not a necessary. It’s the memories of that day that matter the most.
Well sure but then I could just meditate without the need for an excuse.
I’ve meditated in my room and I’ve meditated on a deer stand. They are not the same.
Deer stand?
A place to sit and watch for deer when hunting them. Often an elevated seat, either on it’s own frame or attached to a directly to a tree. It gives the hunter a better vantage point to see the surroundings from. It’s amazing just how few critters actually look up. I have seen many wild animals going about their daily business from one. From little birds landing around me to rabbits, raccoons, fox, the odd bear. And ever so often I see a deer. Sometimes I have shot, sometimes I have let them pass freely.
But I find it an excellent place to look inward into myself. It’s a far better place to see deeper and more honestly than any room in any building.
Sitting still /= experiencing nature. There’s nothing wrong with meditation but it’s an unrelated exercise.
I can sit next to a lake without a fiahing rod.
So there’s a few different ways of fishing. I also am not a big fan of the bait a hook and wait style. I mostly fish with lures and spinners and this has a different appeal. One, it’s far more active. I’ll cast and retrieve a lure a few times in five minutes. I’m not sitting around waiting for a bite, I’m trying to make one happen.
That brings me to point two, I get to learn, practice and exercise different techniques while fishing. I’m constantly learning what works and what doesn’t under different circumstances. If it’s cloudy, I’ll throw a particular set of lures vs when it’s clear. The water conditions matter, too. Is it clear? Is it murky? Is there a lot of vegetation? I’ll also change up how I retrieve a lure to try and better imitate prey fish. Do i retrieve fast? Slow? A combination? Do I wait until I see a fish following it then let it stop for a second to trigger a strike? Will jerking the rod a bit help? All these factor into a decision making process and experimentation element that keeps me engaged.
Three, to put that theory into practice, I have to study the very thing I’m trying to catch. I’m researching the fish I intend to target. What are their behaviors during different times of day? Different seasons? When are they mating and how does this change what they want to eat? And this changes for each fish! So there’s a great deal of study that I can do off the water to help improve my success on it.
Four, its simply a great excuse to be outdoors. More often than not, I’m not hoping to get a fish, I’m enjoying the beautiful lake or river I’m at. I’m relishing the hike I took to get here, the exploration and excitement of finding a new fishing spot or even finding out something new about one I’ve fished dozens of times. Also, to be an effective and conscientious angler, I need to participate in the ecology of the waters I enjoy. I’m as much a part of the environment as the fish I catch and I owe it to myself and them to be a good steward of the land.
Fifth, I also LOVE cooking as a hobby and fishing plays into that in a nice way that I don’t feel I need to explain further. I mostly fish catch and release, but sometimes you gut hook a fish and it makes no sense to return it to the water because it’ll die. So, now I gotta figure out how to cook this thing.
All that said, there’s the rare occasion (usually when I got a few friends with me) that I’ll set up a chair, throw out a hook on a bobber with some bait, sit back, sip a beer, and enjoy the weather and conversation with my buddies. Or the peace of nature alone.
But I understand it’s not for everyone and that’s a-okay. I just think fishing is a fun activity that’s fairly inexpensive that a lot of people sleep on because they think it’s inactive and boring.
This guy fishes. Glad to see you enjoy it. It is probably quite location dependent. Where I live there are basically no lakes I could go to and fish in peace even if I wanted to.
People many years ago didn’t understand the purpose of looking at, and even copying, the squiggly little lines found in what we today call books, so as with every generation, you’re in company.
What a roundabout way to say I am not alone in that opinion.
Nah.
You are hunting the right spot, with the right lure, with the right cast and return. You want to match the right gear with the right lure.
Such a great example of ‘reality is what you’re conscious of’, I feel! ‘Just throw the lure in and wait’ could for another person be ‘arrive at a beautiful waterside location, ritually prepare your tackle, cast it into the water (a skill that can be a minigame in itself, with all the associated space for practice, improvement, and intermittent positive reinforcement), then enjoy the wonders of being still in nature, but also focus on your task and be ready to react instantly.’ It takes all sorts.
I might just be influenced by all the fishermen I see fishing at my local lake. There is no peace to be found there due to all the tourists.
I generally do that waiting in a beautiful place chilling with friends. It’s the journey not the destination, etc. Although actually catching fish is great as well.
Meditation.
Okay but I can do that without buying expensive fishing equipment.
You can also do it without buying an expensive plane ticket but that hasn’t stopped the idea of “raw-dogging a flight” from spreading
The money needed can be less than the cost of one popular video game. And you can fish for years without fear of the servers ever being turned off…
Fishing equipment doesn’t have to be expensive. I got everything I use off of Ali Express for less than $50 and I got a full set of tackle and lures that’ll last me years. I reckon you could spend $25 and have solid equipment that’ll have you catching fish for a while.
You don’t need expensive gear to catch fish, you don’t need name brand stuff. People have been fishing for millenia with very simple tools, fish aren’t going to really care you cheaped out on line and got knock off lures.
Location depending, there’s probably plenty of local water ways to explore and enjoy, too, you don’t need to travel to do it.
Well sure. But there are 4 main issues.
- Meditation itself is free.
- I do not want to spend any money on fishing equipment.
- Where I live you need a fishing permit each day you want to actually fish.
- I dont like eating fish.
Well, I’m not here really trying to sell ya on fishing, I just really enjoy talking about my own hobbies, honestly!
And, of course, different strokes for different folks. Sucks you need a daily license to fish where you are, though. I pay like $10 once a year for a license and money goes to maintaining the ecology of the state and programs to revitalize local fish populations through reintroduction of farmed fish to the wild. We’re encouraged to catch certain kinds of fish and report tagged fishes to the state so they can better understand the effectiveness of their programs and we get a little prize for the trouble.
I think a lot of the similar joys of nature of fishing can be achieved through hiking, if that’s more your speed, and that needs far less equipment. Sure you can buy fancy gear, but all you really need is a pair of shoes and probably a water bottle.
Don’t worry I have mountaineering gear. I just struggle to find time to actually go and do it.
Fishing is hunting done on water. Sometimes you wait, sometimes you’re actively searching for your prey.
You do get the bonus of being outside, seeing the world as it is today, and if you hunt successfully you get to eat better than anything you can get from the finest restaurant. And even if you catch nothing, you get to keep the memories of just being there. Maybe alone or with friends.
I don’t like fish though. Especially fresh water ones.
No one says you must keep and eat them. You can catch and release them if you so choose.
You also drink a ton of beer. That’s my favourite part, really.
Downhill mountain biking for me. When im injured from throwing myself off something stupid it gives me time to catch up on platinum trophies.
It’s funny you mention that circumstance, I finally got around to finishing all three endings and S-ranking most missions of Armored Core 6 while I was recovering from rolling my ankle slipping on a ledge while hiking.
More to the point of the post, I also spent a good bit of time researching the ecology of my local lakes and rivers for summertime for when I estimated my ankle would heal and once I was better I was equipped to get back out on the water.
It is a crap shoot if an autist’s fixation winds up being something beneficial to a single soul.
The tricky thing is that there’s less “real” stuff to be done. Take my silly passion for rocks/minerals as an example. Back in the day I would’ve happily made geological maps but my country has already been fully mapped in detail. Similarly the guy in OP’s post can look up the bugs of his area online because they’ve already been documented. Videogames can give us a sense of exploration and progress that is hard to find in real life these days.
There are more unanswered questions in science than ever before, but researching them has become less accessible
Hey we share an interest!
My family would always say “why don’t you do something with minerals?” And usually I say “well there’s no job that is just admiring dioptase, and I really don’t want to work for the enemy (oil companies)” lol
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You really can’t, though. There are a finite number of hours in each day.
Which is okay. Focusing on a happy life is imho better than to strive for becoming an efficient worker in some way or another. There is a lot more to life than this.
Well, it’s not to say they wouldn’t be happy with the beetle cataloging. But yeah, you never know how either the beetle catalog or the sonic ring tutorial might positively affect another human being - so they’re both contributions. I find that if you’re doing most anything in life with true joy and enthusiasm, you’re contributing!
They still have the option to catalogue beetles, that was never off the table. But they chose Sonic because it makes them more happy.
I was just referring back to the OP post, where I thought it was describing how humans only have so much time in the world, and focus to use - so are modern time-spenders like video games hogging/stealing (thief) that valuable time/focus or not?
In this instance, did they “choose” Sonic, or did Sonic negate the chance of the same skillset being applied to beetles? Sonic might make them more happy - or maybe they never found out how much beetles would make them happier.
If people didn’t have weird obsessions, then sciences like geology probably wouldn’t exist.
The worst thing about (thing I don’t like) is that people do it instead of (working towards [goal]).
Why aren’t you (working towards [goal]) ?
And yes, I get the whole undertone that this is about people with autism or hyper focus or whatever you want to call it. It doesn’t make it any funny.
