- cross-posted to:
- technology@feddit.ch
- cross-posted to:
- technology@feddit.ch
I’m sure people here can empathize with having all the tech wizards get burnt out and leave, and all the various teething problems but this is a bit much… lemmy has its issues but plenty of sites larger and smaller than beehaw are getting on just fine. Perhaps the lib sysadmins are just going back to brunch?
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😔
This is really sad for me. Beehaw was what helped me really dive into the Fediverse, and then I found midwest.social through them, and then you guys federated, and now I’m here… but they’re such a kind and sweet place on the Internet.
I get that they’re mostly lib af, but still, they’re very kind, well-meaning folk, and I wouldn’t have found you all without them.
I’ve been meaning to dive back in over there to say hi and be supportive but have had so much irl stuff going on, and man oh man, it just really hurts my heart that they’re going through such terrible growing pains. I meant to contribute to the living expenses of one of the admins because I appreciate their work so much, and then I adhd-taxed myself and got some overdraft fees and was distracted with hexbear in the meantime and totally forgot, and damn do I feel like an asshole.
Idk what the point of this is, except to say that they’re really wonderfully kind people over there, and I’m so sorry that things are getting so difficult for them.
I need to put some money where my heart is and contribute more to them and to hexbear.
We are privileged to have you here with us, comrade the_ibst
midwest.social mentioned 🔥🔥🔥 but yeah thats the vibe i got from them too. one of the few libby instances that dont still constantly bring up hexbear despite defederating, pretty unfortunate to lose em
Interesting to hear your perspective, because although I’ve never checked it out myself, the overall perception of them around here is very not good
Do you know why? This piece is the shortest of many essays they’ve got about what they’re trying to achieve and why. The basic gist is that they want to make a kind, supportive online community as a refuge for marginalized people. It’s an anti-dunking community, so definitely not everyone’s cup of tea, but I’m curious what about them might cause a negative view.
Edit: I really appreciate all the information and perspective ❤️ thanks, everyone
Anti-dunking inherently means pro-dogwhistle
Do you know why?
They pre-emptively defederated from Hexbear (more than a year before we even had the ability to federate) making up the excuse that hatespeech(lmao yeah ok suuuure) was their reason for doing so. The reality is that they have been anti-communists from the start, they are an explicitly neoliberal project with the intent of grooming their users into neoliberalism, but this goal must remain secret so they couldn’t just say “we defederated from hexbear because they’re socialists”, hence the lies.
As you can probably imagine, this creates a lot of animosity here.
Most of us became aware of them when they made an announcement in the midst of the Reddit exodus red scare accusing us of bigotry and hate speech, so our first broad impression was that they are (administrated by) fucking morons who are perfectly comfortable lying about other communities.
Therefore, we are left with some options that may feel uncomfortable to us. For example, we may want to consider leaving the Fediverse for another software platform that does NOT include ActivityPub. To explain, Fediverse/ActivityPub are very positive concepts on the foundational level. However, the Beehaw project is struggling to include this because most of our moderation/content/ethos is being jeopardized from OTHER federated instances (i.e. it, mostly, is NOT coming from within our own Beehaw registered user base).
Sounds like they don’t like federation and just want to isolate their own instance. Why couldn’t they just defederate instead of going through the process of migrating to another platform? Is it really that difficult to do?
EDIT: Thinking about this a little more, it seems like the admins (or admin?) have a very specific idea of the kind of community they want, and are getting frustrated when everything isn’t perfect to their vision, whether that’s lemmy code or other instances they are federated with. Then they complain and contribute nothing towards making the fediverse better. I guess what I’m saying is that they really do seem to want a walled garden that’s perfect to some idealized community that only exists in their heads, and I don’t think communities really work like that.
They can just turn off all federation yeah. It’s pretty easy.
Beehaw admins loooove lying.
And what is that vision? Civility.
😊
What is the origin of the beehaw community?
Back in the early days if lemmy, they got sick of all the tankies and wanted their own ‘non political’ instance, which is still full of politics.
I think one of the people that started it messaged me early on asking if I wanted to be involved. I was pretty ‘anti-tankie’ at the time but that was before I had engaged with actual liberals online as much as I do now on lemmy. I’d take a tankie over a lib any day now.
Anyway, since the beginning of beehaw they just projected an aura of smugness across the other instances (I think there were only 3-4 at the time though). I originally had hopes they would succeed and become a good addition the lemmyverse since most of their users seemed like decent leftists generally speaking bit their apparent full on support for the state department in eastern Europe made me cringe.
i’m not really familiar with the nitty-gritty details of the software, but what could be such a large issue with lemmy that it’s unworkable to run beehaw (700 users/month) while instances several times the size are getting along just fine? skill issue?
Beehaw admins have been complaining about the difficulty of modding federated users for a while. I think this is partly a skill issue, partly that they’re federated with some of the worse lib instances we’ve defedded, and also partly that they’ve prohibited dunking but not saying dumb libshit worthy of dunking.
They also just utterly refuse to add more mods
to a certain kind of person, “adding more mods” sounds an awful lot like “diluting my power”
Who they?
They’re the instance that insisted on no bigotry from either the right or the left and adopted a very strong anti-communist stance. Their whole instance is full of nazi dogwhistles now, which I’m sure is quite a shock to everyone here. Their admins have always been uncomfortable that lemmy isn’t reddit and was created by dirty, filthy commies and hate that communists use the platform, even if they are defederated from all but the most liberal instances as this point.
Nazi Bar syndrome, liberals are ideologically helpless against the animating ethos of nazism
They’re drawn to reaction like a comet is drawn to a neutron star
(Anti-) Nazi bar story origin:
I was at a shitty crustpunk bar once getting an after-work beer. One of those shitholes where the bartenders clearly hate you. So the bartender and I were ignoring one another when someone sits next to me and he immediately says, “no. get out.”
Anyway, I asked what that was about and the bartender was like, “you didn’t see his vest but it was all nazi shit. Iron crosses and stuff. You get to recognize them.”
And i was like, ohok and he continues.
And then THEY bring friends and the friends bring friends and they stop being cool and then you realize, oh shit, this is a Nazi bar now. And it’s too late because they’re entrenched and if you try to kick them out, they cause a PROBLEM. So you have to shut them down.
And i was like, ‘oh damn.’ and he said “yeah, you have to ignore their reasonable arguments because their end goal is to be terrible, awful people.”
And then he went back to ignoring me. But I haven’t forgotten that at all.
Every bartender I know has told me this exact same story.
Kick them out immediately. Show outright hostility. MAKE THEM UNWELCOME. Fight them in the lot if you have to.
And always remember they’re Nazis by choice.
What liberal reactionary wiktionary makes out of it:
(Internet slang) A space in which bigots or extremists have come to dominate due to a lack of moderation or by moderators wishing to remain neutral or avoid conflict.
This is hardly a surprise. When you adopt an anti-communist stance, you pave the way for unhealthy social trends to takeover, which increases the moderation workload considerably, and forces you into an unsustainable method of operating. Perhaps the decay has finally reached a stage advanced enough to send them back to the likes of Silicon Valley centralized models.
Hexbear has survived all this time because, like China, has been engaging in self-reform to address the problem of rise and fall. So long as Hexbear continues this path, it will continue to go the distance.
The other big instances that are here today may not be in a few months, or years. Fascinating to see from a dialectical perspective.
why are there fascists in my anticommunist instance
