Gnome devs : we broke the toilet extension. Your pokemons have nowhere to shit and piss.
Pokemon trainers : why the fuck is the toilet an extension. Shouldn’t it be part of the DE?
Gnome devs : we believe the toilet feature is unnecessary, so it wasn’t and will never be implemented.
Note : I’ve barely used gnome in my life so it’s based on memes I’ve seen about gnome.
The only thing you got wrong is that the toilet extension would be a third-party thing, and Gnome devs would actively insult anyone who dared be upset they broke it.
I was gonna say that it was a third party extension, but then I thought that gnomes users would infer that pretty easily.
Long time Gnome user here: I like the general Gnome simplicity of use and workflow and got used to it, but I’m really tired of having to install extensions for very basic things, and of it messing all my extensions on each version upgrade, so I have to reinstall everything. I started experimenting with KDE, and looking forward to cosmic.
Yeah, KDE’s basically at the point you don’t need GNOME imo, it’s so customizable you can make it basically look/function the same as GNOME without having to put up with GNOME’s dumber decisions
I tend to flip flop, I like some things in GNOME better, but the lack of customization always brings me back to KDE after a while (Plasma, whatever)
For me it’s KDE on desktop, GNOME on laptop.
This is the way. Although Plasma 6 is getting reaaaal close to going on my laptop too.
Why is that though? Is plasma battery sucker or so compared to gnome?
I just like how it works with trackpads more, and tend to do more things basically fullscreen anyway.
I could do the overview, grid mode, workspaces switching with touchpad in kde. How does that compare to gnome?
It’s close to alpha! I don’t think it’ll be in a good enough state for me (Nvidia GPU), but maybe someday.
I’ve been daily driving the pre-alpha since January, it’s definitely got a bit of jank, but it’s in really good shape. The alpha should be pretty usable, and I think by the beta it should be pretty much good to go.
Just as soon as Nvidia stops hating Wayland… 👉 👈 any day now…
their last gpu were working good, from nvddia unern opinions that i read
Maybe I’ll have to give it a shot! I’m on a 3070 Ti, and I’ve had issues in the past but I’ll have to figure it out eventually, since I’m trying to make the switch away from Windows :D
A month ago as of tomorrow I got fed up with Windows and googled “gaming Linux”, picked Garuda because it was near the top result and I like the FFXIV Garuda, was wiping my Windows drive within fifteen minutes of deciding I was done, and have been gaming with my 3080 since. Haven’t touched X11 because Garuda defaults to Wayland and I don’t even know the difference between them, and so far everything has just worked
I’ve heard that the brand new Nvidia 555 drivers actually work with Wayland. I was ready to switch my gaming laptop to Linux but I may wait a few weeks for the driver to release out of beta. (Arch users shut up, lol.)
When I first started on Linux with Fedora probably a little over 15 years ago, I used gnome just because it was different. At some point I played with Enlightenment, and now I use KDE. It was different when I was more interested in screwing around with my system. Now that I use it for work, I just need everything to be as reliable, persistent, and easy as possible. I haven’t used gnome in many years, but I hear these stories all the time and I just don’t want to deal with something that’ll wrench my workflow when I have other shit to do and no time to play diagnostics.
Yeah, Cosmic looks really nice. Their app store interface needs a bit of modernization work, but otherwise, it looks well polished.
Do you know how vim has distributions like lunarvim, lazvim, nvchad, etc.? Simply installing something like lazyvim can quickly and easily convert vim from a text editor to a full blown IDE.
I think Gnome needs something like this. A curated set of plugins that are easy to install and maintain compatibility with different versions of Gnome - something that would deal with the API churn in Gnome while maintaining a stable, usable desktop environment.
I don’t know if this is feasible, because I haven’t used Gnome since 2.x, but I think it would really help make it an actual full blown DE.
The problem is the Gnome team doesn’t give a flying rat’s ass about maintaining a stable api. I’ve never bothered with extensions because even the most basic stuff only works for one or two versions. The neovim team is pretty committed to backwards compatibility and following standards for interoperability like LSP these days, so it’s much easier for third parties to maintain a large set of extended functionality at this point. If they acted like the gnome team, your status bar plugin would break every other update.
I only tried GNOME long enough to see how crap it is, and have been a happy KDE user for years.
Can I ask what extensions you are using in gnome?
I use several, but the ones that I consider to be basic functions are caffeine, tray icons, places status indicator, removable drive menu and extended volume indicator. That last one is a nice example of my frustration, because it can’t be installed on the current gnome version anymore, and having to open settings to switch my audio output is terrible. Every distro upgrade have been the same experience, and I lose some functionality
You forgot multi-monitor support. The extension broke for me a couple of years back and the author became AWOL. My workaround is to open the clock app on my secondary monitor when gaming in order to track time now that I can’t see the clock in the taskbar.
That’s interesting because of that list I’d only consider tray icons, the rest I would turn off
I went the other way. I liked the simplicity, and thought what about MORE simplicity? I went to i3 and haven’t really looked back yet.
It’s more like, there is one way to go to the toilet but it involves going into a small porcelain cup. They refuse to admit that’s not practical, or that it doesn’t work for everybody, or allow people to use anything else. You will use the little porcelain cup no matter how absurd it is and that’s it.
Wrong. If an extension for your need isn’t enough, you can very simply just use another DE. No one is entitled to random free custom development work
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No one is entitled to random free custom development work.
Meaning gnome devs themselves are not entitled to the free custom development work of the third party extension devs, and therefore gnome is actively taking advantage of the third party developers(Third-party developers feel undervalued & exploited, potentially leading to burnout and abandonment of projects) while all round making it harder for them to maintain the extensions(GNOME’s decision not to provide a stable API for extensions makes it challenging for third-party developers to maintain their work across GNOME versions).
This is where KDE Community is different, they actively support, communicate, collaborate, etc. with 3rd party devs to build a strong relationship & a strong ecosystem.
In fact, Gnome devs are all around abrasive to the entire Linux ecosystem, including but not limited to the Wayland development team & the development teams of other desktop environments(GNOME’s design decisions, such as only supporting CSD & lobbying Wayland to mandate CSD & the controversy over the accent color protocol, have led to conflicts with the entire Linux ecosystem), their own user base(GNOME’s communication style is dismissive & unresponsive to community feedback), application developers(GNOME’s decisions sometimes force other projects to adapt or create workarounds, as seen with the server-side decoration controversy, further complicating development efforts), third party developers, and even amongst themselves(There are reports of conflicts even within the GNOME development team, suggesting internal tensions).And yet KDE is still jankier.
People always talk about extensions breaking… I’ve probably used 5-10 extensions and only one of them broke, and I don’t even remember what it was.
Gnome will die the second Cosmic (Epoch) DE gets remotely close to 1:1 parity. It will be more stable, it’ll be more feature complete & support modern features, it’ll have a similar level of polish, a similar yet way more flexible design language and the devs will actively work with the Linux ecosystem & so on.
At that point the only people left over for Gnome, are those stuck on x11, and die hard shills/fanboys. Many developers are very much sick of Gnomes shit already and only put up with it because it’s popular.Only if it becomes the default install of the major distros. That, I think is a major hurdle, not even KDE has been able to leap that.
It’s already going to be the default on one of the major distros at launch; Pop_OS! by System76. It’ll grow in popularity pretty quickly.
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Note : I’ve barely used gnome in my life so it’s based on memes I’ve saw about gnome
and it shows
2 other responses I got confirmed that such thing happens and you say otherwise. Doesn’t Gnome breaks third party extensions that provides users basic functionality that should be in gnome in the first place but the devs don’t want to implement? Is the meme wrong?
Not that guy but phrases like “basic functionality” are just hard to pin down. What you need for your workflow and can’t live without is probably irrelevant fluff to a whole other class of folks.
I haven’t run into anything I need a third-party extension for yet, so I guess it works for some of us, although admittedly I do very few things on that machine so I could easily be missing something vital for most people.
GNOME works the best when not used. Got it.
That was pretty effing funny.
How much do you use your OS, though? I’d characterize it more as it works best by staying out of the way.
I turn the computer on, load a game or an occasional productive application, and I don’t think about it any more than that. My only real interaction with it beyond picking some initial settings is super+search for the thing I actually want to interact with.
I am using it for work (programming) and for games. Usually about 12 hours daily, except weekends.
I liked GNOME shell until they managed to kill systray extensions for good. I didn’t want to fight it no more so I left.
Fair enough. I don’t know what those are, so I guess I can’t miss them.
The fucking system tray. Which literally every other DE and mainstream OS out there supports because some apps depend on it and break if it doesn’t exist.
Last I checked GNOME devs said “no, we will never support it, because we’ve DePRecATeD the tray in GTK”.
It’s functionality so basic I have 3-6 apps which depend on it at any time on my work machine. Anyone saying it doesn’t fall under “basic functionality” is either a GNOME dev or a troll.
Swear I’m neither of those things, but you’re talking about the system tray as in that little bucket of icons that sits in the lower-right of a taskbar usually?
This seems like it’d fall pretty neatly in the “you use it, so you think it’s required basic functionally; other people don’t, so they don’t care about it” realm. I do not miss the bucket. It doesn’t seem like awesome functionality (to me) to have to access application features through a bucket of tiny icons instead of the application itself and to be unable to access those features in the application.
I can see how frustrating it’d be if there’s something you like to use or have to use that only works if it can be in a system tray, but it’s not a ubiquitous feature requirement across all applications, so maybe GNOME is for people that don’t care for apps that require this and all the other mainstream OS options are for folks that do? Man that’s an annoying sentence to read; no wonder people get so angry about what seems like pointless minutiae.
I assume I dislike it because my work machine (windows, no choice there) always has about 30 things in its pointless icon bucket that can’t be closed by a basic user and do nothing beyond cluttering the taskbar and getting in the way. I get nothing out of a bucket of icons that exist only to silently scream “I’m running in the background still! Just in case anyone cares!” Not having to see that crap on my personal machine is a relief rather than a frustration for me.
It’s not as bad nowadays that apps yielded to GNOME’s bullshit. Back when GTK2 apps were still common… Urgh. Plenty of apps were broken without it for no good reason.
I like opinionated UX - I use sway - but GNOME’s approach is incompatible with “general use” and only works (for now) because of canonical’s weight and ability to impose their vision as the only vision.
Also they didn’t replace the tray with a better way to manage background apps, so they can suck a dick on the UX front.
Ah okay I would likely have missed those days since until this year I kept hoping windows wouldn’t completely shit the bed for my gaming PC.
I’ll have to take a look sway; think I’m still figuring out what I like best and GNOME felt familiar to the MacBook I like using for productivity (although now that I think about it, even Apple has a system-tray-like thing on the top of the screen). KDE was also fine but if I have a choice I usually like picking something with a spotlight-search equivalent; GNOME’s just looks more like spotlight so it activates the dumb part of my brain that likes familiarity.
Thanks for sticking with me through this conversation. Sometimes it’s hard to convey over text that I’m more ignorant than asshole on most Linux things.
Basic functionality, as in Server Side Decorations(SSD) along with Client Side Decorations(CSD); features both users & application devs expect to be there. Gnome Wayland lacks SSD which is a big problem for devs that build applications without CSD, e.g. especially Game devs, and it even causes negative effects across the rest of Linux ecosystem. Literally everything; KDE Plasma, Weston, Windows, MacOS and so on have both SSD & CSD; that’s how ubiquitously important this feature set is; delivering the best of both in a manner that gives developers flexibility while keeping consistency for the end user. In fact, Gnome not having both is damaging for accessibility (e.g. users with limited vision) across the Linux ecosystem as well.
Is the meme wrong?
Yes, it is.
basic functionality that should be in gnome in the first place
Who gets to decide what’s “basic” functionality? Each desktop’s team has their vision for what they want to implement. Something that might be basic to one person might not be in someone else’s vision or…
the devs don’t want to implement
…is being worked on but needs design. GNOME is design-oriented. It doesn’t matter how much you scream that something needs implementing if no one designs how that implementation will work and why it should be implemented in the first place. It’s not about “not wanting”, it’s about making sure that when something is implemented, that it’ll work well both now and in the future.
Gnome, the Apple of Linux
I can’t think of a single thing about gnome that remotely resembles apple, outside of some UI patterns…
Their whole attitude towards development is similar, down to not working with other dekstops and insisting on doing things the way that works best for them regardless if it’s worse for the linux ecosystem overall.
I guess congratulations on proving the point I made on my other post?
Gnome’s attitude towards everything seems to be “$#¨$ you, like just actually go &%$# yourself. You do things our way or you use something else. We have decided these things are useless, if you think they are necessary you are a $&@# and %$#$ you and the horse you rode in on”
That’s just FOSS in general. If you don’t like something, you create a fork or use something else.
Nah, GNOME is worse mostly because it’s the default on a ton of distros, so them having this attitude actively get’s in the way of cross-desktop development instead of just being annoying.
Yeah, and when you do, it’s because you don’t like things about the original, and here people are saying what they don’t like.
Nobody disagrees that you can choose something else, but that’s not a reason to be uncritical.
If you refuse to understand I’ll just refuse to engage further then, keep wasting your time on pointless discussions on free software built by volunteers and what they spend their time on. I’ll go back to actually working on them in whatever way I can.
it’s based on memes
So you’re basing an opinion on the world’s dumbest, least accurate form of communication
As I said, I briefly used gnome in the far past and just remember being weirded out by the design choices that felt very “Apple like” . So them pulling an “Apple” and doing the “we know better than the user” doesn’t feel out of place.
This comment implies that Microsoft design choices are better which is hilarious
Microsoft at least isn’t trying to be a walked garden (at least, they didn’t used to)
It’s not much, but the bar to be “better than Apple” from that perspective ain’t exactly high
(Also, since they didn’t mention Microsoft at all or make some statement about how Apple was the worst, I don’t see how it even implies that… If you inferred that, I think that’s on you)
I don’t get this comment. Gnome is not trying to make a walled garden, and Microsoft has taken every chance they get at making walled gardens (Windows phone, windows 8 arm, various proprietary file formats and protocols), they just haven’t been very successful at it.
Yep. It’s amazing how Microsoft fanboys come into the Linux communities spreading their weird biased takes
Apple is garbage but they have made some good design decisions. Microsoft rarely has. And no it’s not “on me”. Anyone using Mac windows and Linux over the years would see that most Linux DEs copy a lot from either MS or Apple, most outside of gnome primary mimicking windows.
Anyone using Mac windows and Linux over the years would see that most Linux DEs copy a lot from either MS or Apple, most outside of gnome primary mimicking windows.
So you literally just know gnome and kde plasma. That’s cute.
Not true but weird flex “pfft this guy only knows two desktop environments!”
Seems like you’re not very familiar with the history of computer interfaces if you can write what you just did
I mean, dude got it pretty spot on, so can we really criticize the accuracy?
He did not get anything spot on
So you’re basing an opinion on the world’s basedest, most accurate form of communication
FTFY
Reminds me of twitch plays pokemon, putting a pokemon in the pc was akin to a death sentence since they often ‘accidentally’ released them later
Not just a death sentence for that Pokémon, approaching the PC was a potential game over!
I have still nightmares of Bloody Sunday.
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻) ANARCHY (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻)
Abby didn’t die for this :(
I love the Gnome workflow, but holy shit, I get the hate. Why doesn’t it support a lockscreen that’s not gdm?
I actually think general Gnome workflow is pretty alright (even if I prefer other things), but yeah, Gnome devs seem to like. Actively hate their users?
GNOME is the Apple of the FOSS world
Yeah, like I’m all in favor of having an opinionated design, but their dominance makes their bad decisions actively harm every other de. Stuff like refusing to compromise on cross-desktop protocols
Their “dominance” is the choice of the distributions. Gnome is opinionated, and I respect that they follow their vision. To me this is free software working as intended, people are free to fork Gnome if they want something that the devs don’t want. And apparently, many distributions think Gnome should be the default. Maybe it shouldn’t, but that’s up to the distros to decide.
Oh yeah, they’re free to decide, I just disagree with them! I get the decision though, and if I were on charge of a large distro, I’d probably make the same choice (until plasma is on a normal release cycle)
Wayland expects you to use the desktop for everything including locking. What’s wrong with the lock screen? It seems fine.
It doesn’t work at all with sddm. That’s what’s wrong.
I though you were on gnome
I’d like to have the freedom to switch easily.
That is not going to happen as KDE and gnome conflict
On what? On dependencies? That shouldn’t be an issue with nixos.
Configuration files
I honestly like the vertical integration, but I can see why Linux folks would be annoyed. Honestly GNOME fits my workflow perfectly after a few extensions (mainly Dash to Dock). I’m super fickle, so its rigidity helps
Do not
like come on man, it’s not even a Vaporeon!JONKER NOOO
I’ve quite enjoyed gnome so far. What are your complaints with it? Granted I don’t think I have actually used another DE but I genuinely don’t run into issues with gnome and the design is good enough imo.
What’s your preferred DE and why?
My complaint with Gnome is just one, but it is overbearing: Gnome devs want to decide what is best for you, which stinks and goes against the very fundament of open software. But would not per se be a problem – If they hadn’t also decided that a bunch of things that are considered basic features that every other DE and even other OSes have implemented for the past 20 years are, in fact, unnecessary.
Consider the humble System Tray.
Gnome removed the System Tray in favour of a “Control Center”. And the Control Center works really well – For inbuilt Gnome stuff and applications that were written for Gnome. But stuff that is DE agnostic, or god forbid, ported over from another OS? Some of them expect a tray to be there. Have functionality that doesn’t work without one. Or do work but are janky. Gnome doesn’t offer a system tray. You have to install a third party extension, which would also be fine… Except every time Gnome updates every other third party extension breaks.
And like, sure, it’s not Gnome Devs’ job to ensure the operability of third party addons, but that you need them to begin with is a failure. Gnome’s attitude towards everything seems to be “$#¨$ you, like just actually go &%$# yourself. You do things our way or you use something else. We have decided these things are useless, if you think they are necessary you are a $&@# and %$#$ you and the horse you rode in on”
As for my personal favourite DE? KDE Plasma. It’s not something I’d ever recommend to a newcomer, but I like it precisely because of how many moving parts it has. I can make my system look, feel, and act just the way I like it. It’s like the polar opposite of Gnome really.
Gnome devs want to decide what is best for you
Rebuttal: I’m extremely fickle, so someone else making choices for me is what I need. In KDE I
spentwasted days customizing and just gave up in the end. It’s the same idea as using prettier instead of using your own lint rules: you stop wasting time and just do the thing you’re there to do.In general, for configs (linting, neovim, etc), I prefer taking something really good and tweaking the parts I dislike—which is the model GNOME uses. Probabilistically, it’s exponentially likely that your preferences are only a little bit away from someone else—just use their thing and spend 15 minutes tweaking them.
See, while I understand that the “the system should be invisible and get out of the way so people can do things with their computers” philosophy isn’t for me, I entirely understand it as not only valid, but preferred by most people. –
– It’s just that Gnome’s approach to “getting out of the way” is at best counterproductive? I used Gnome for like 3 months in 2022, figured I’d give it a try, I’m always down to try new stuff. And I felt like I was just constantly fighting against it, having to do configuration stuff and install third-party addons not as a funtime activity because I like to make my computer look prettier, but because if I didn’t, shit just refused to work. It was only much later that I learned that the reason I had to keep wrestling Gnome is because the peeps behind it had actively decided that the things I needed to do were stupid and didn’t need doing.
You’ll see me praising Cinnamon in a different comment. Cinnamon, a cousin of Gnome’s born of Gnome 2, is what I’d call a DE that gets out of the way. It doesn’t have all the moving parts that KDE does, and that is to its credit. Because it has everything it needs to have and no more but also no less.
Cinnamon absolutely is fantastic, and I 100% agree that it gets out of the way really well.
I’m curious what you needed to do that GNOME was fighting you. I’m not invalidating it, I’m genuinely just curious, since I haven’t used a Linux system for personal/work use for about 5 years now, so my ideas of GNOME/KDE/etc. are almost certainly dated. To clarify: vanilla GNOME is kind of awful, and I’ve always wondered if anyone genuinely uses it stock while also being aware that extensions exist.
I already mentioned the System Tray, back then I used MegaSync for cloud backups and that app was completely broken due to the lack of a Tray. (I have since switched to using Syncthing and an old laptop with a USB HDD as a ghetto “”“”“NAS”“”“” solution… Which would probably work quite well on Gnome actually, as Syncthing is a service and is controlled through a web interface)
Wine stuff was janky as hell. As were Qt apps. For one thing wine applications, too, expected a Tray, and would instead spawn a tiny window at the corner for tray stuff. Plus there was weird behaviour with some windows and the way they layered. As for Qt apps? Gnome offered no features for setting the look of Qt apps, so if I set Gnome to dark mode (by the way, very neat feature how Gnome’s default theme deals with that, no joke here, very seamless and elegant, even if I’d never use light mode willingly), Qt apps would still be bright and I had to just install a third-party application for it (qt5ct) and set something in my /etc/environment.
All of these things had solutions, to be sure, an extension for the tray, a third-party application for the Qt apps, etc. But then I did an
apt upgradeand literally all the extensions broke. So I had to spend an extra hour that day figuring out what I’d do about that. Joy of joys.Then there is the Gnome File Manager.
Why in the name of all that is unholy did it not let one type in the addresses of folders? Or copy them or… ? Sure, icons and breadcrumbs are nice, but being able to type in an address when you know it saves a ton of time. And maybe I want to copy a location to use it on the terminal? That should have been one of the first things to be implemented. Apparently a recent patch to Gnome has added the address bar “feature” (which has been part of Windows Explorer since 1994 and of every Linux File Manager I’ve known since forever–), but like. Bruh.So I installed Thunar, the File Manager from XFCE, but now I was using a separate file manager entirely and having to deal with everything that comes with switching file managers from the DE’s default. Like. WOW.
Wine stuff was janky as hell. As were Qt apps. For one thing wine applications, too, expected a Tray, and would instead spawn a tiny window at the corner for tray stuff. Plus there was weird behaviour with some windows and the way they layered. As for Qt apps? Gnome offered no features for setting the look of Qt apps, so if I set Gnome to dark mode (by the way, very neat feature how Gnome’s default theme deals with that, no joke here, very seamless and elegant, even if I’d never use light mode willingly), Qt apps would still be bright and I had to just install a third-party application for it (qt5ct) and set something in my /etc/environment.
Sorry, I laughed out loud when I read that. Only in Linux land would we run into issues like this because stuff is modular so when things aren’t the way something expects, shit breaks in the stupidest ways.
All of these things had solutions, to be sure, an extension for the tray, a third-party application for the Qt apps, etc. But then I did an apt upgrade and literally all the extensions broke. So I had to spend an extra hour that day figuring out what I’d do about that. Joy of joys.
Oh I learned early on to either update super regularly so I can see what’s breaking as it happens, or be careful upgrading. The number of times I’ve broken shit by updating software is insane (and not limited to GNOME). Even on macOS, the number of times I’ve fixed something by symlinking a library file to the same location with an older version name is stupid. I can see why people are interested in something like NixOS.
Then there is the Gnome File Manager.
You could’ve just stopped there, I had forgotten how weirdly awful it was. The amount of time I spent getting that stupid thing to just fucking have options like “Open in Terminal” is insane.
Oh?! Those app icons not appearing or working properly every once and a while are a gnome problem? Genuinely just thought I was doing something wrong.
I am not necessarily new to linux as I have distro hopped extensively so I might give KDE plasma a shot as I have heard good things but I am certainly not an expert when It comes to linux. I have only learned enough to keep my games running and my desktop environment clean. Sometimes I will run into an issue I cant fix and just reinstall the OS or try another one lmao.
I’ve recently grown quite interested in customizing my DE but was struggling to understand how people do it. Not used to messing with config files and I downloaded themes but didn’t know how to install them. It often feels like I simply expected to know a lot of linux knowledge so steps often go unexplained and since I learned how to use linux primarly independantly and through necessary maintenance, there’s a lot of of stuff I simply never learned because I did not need to.
Also what is the difference between a system tray and a control center?
Also what is the difference between a system tray and a control center?
Functionally, there isn’t one. Both serve the same ultimate purpose: To be an area where background services and system functionality can be accessed quickly and easily, while staying out of the way of whatever you’re doing in the foreground.
The tray is just an older, arguably more primitive metaphor for the same thing: “Just give every service and app its own icon, and make it so that icon can be clicked to access its options and features”. It’s simple, but it works.
The control center is more elegant, like, really, it is. It saves screen real estate and such. Giving you a little scrollable window where every controllable thing has its own little area. But that is contingent on the application itself implementing that functionality. When an application expects an old-fashioned tray, Gnome’s control center just tells that app to go $&#* itself, when they could, if they wanted to, just add a corner on the control center for “legacy apps”. But they don’t wanna, because they think they know better than everyone else.
In my humble opinion, the system tray is a crutch anyway. But sadly a needed crutch for “legacy” support.
What does an application need with a tiny icon persistent on screen? Aren’t notifications enough to notify the user that something has happened? Why can’t it just run in background, and when the user needs it open it up from the taskbar/dock?
Easy access to a few key functions is nice, IMO. Though helping someone on their computer and seeing half the taskbar occupied with two dozen system tray icons makes me vomit just a little, so I get it.
Oh no, I entirely agree with the system tray being a leftover from an older era. The Control Center is actually super elegant. But it doesn’t do to come up with a nicer, more elegant solution while telling all legacy support to go &*&$ itself in the same breath because it’s no longer your problem.
That’s some Apple bollocks, and if I wanted to deal with Apple’s shit I’d get a Mac.
Why would‘t you recommend plasma to a beginner? For me it seemed like the out-of-the-box experience is really nice.
As I said – Same reason I love it.
That system control panel app with all its billions of options and everything being customizable and change-able is very good if you are a user who a. WANTS to customize everything b. Either knows how or is willing to learn.
Most beginners aren’t after that. They want something that is somewhat familiar and that works well. And while, sure, Plasma’s defaults are pretty good… I can totally see a newbie user opening up KCM and immediately becoming overwhelmed. Another user here even mentioned how much time they wasted because all those choices actually got in the way of them getting stuff done
Up to 2.x, GNOME used what was basically the MacOS philosophy: make things easy and simple and intuitive, but if the user wants finer control and power features, make sure it’s still possible somehow. GNOME 3 and later pretty much adopted the philosophy that there’s the GNOME path of simplicity and streamlining, and power user functionality is going to be removed from the core and relegated to extensions. And, of course, GNOME started requiring boatloads of memory to run, which to me didn’t go hand in hand with “simplicity”.
I eventually settled on using XFCE, because it didn’t have the bloat and still had enough customisability. Really good environment for old and underperforming systems. If I’m using a modern high performance system, I’m actually pretty impressed by what KDE Plasma is doing these days.
Try something new for a while. I like gnome but it is fun to try something new.
Who uses Gnome these days? i have used the forks Cinnamon or MATE, since gnome shell was introduced.
It’s great that there’re so many good window managers to choose from.
A majority? I mean use something else if you like them better, no need to shit on GNOME
There’s plenty reason to shit on gnome, they took off in a direction and changed the whole look and feel, without any option to keep something like the gnome 2 layout.
The introduction of Gnome 3 scared me away, the initial version was garbage. I switched to XFce and MATE, and eventually ended up with Cinnamon.
They may have made it usable, but I still don’t like the user interface.
So you like windows style UI. Great, good for you.
And what kind of UI should I like oh wise one, I’m not worthy of your wisdom, please tell me, I’m begging you!
We already know the answer, hence my comment. We heard from you that windows is better and Mac os is trash. What else do we need?
It is absolutely bizarre to me that (a few, vast minority) people hate gnome so much. It feels smooth, modern, and stable while the others I’ve used feel mostly like an amateurish glitchy version of windows.
You could always just not use gnome and let others use it. I think KDE is janky but I don’t really say that until people jump on the gnome hate bandwagon
Probably most desktop Linux users? …
I love gnome. People love KDE but I think it’s not very good.
Most? Is that guess based on anything?
I am sure getting accurate data on the subject would be impossible, as Linux users are more likely to not consent to the type of telemetry that could track that.
Yeah. It’s mainly based on the fact that Ubuntu and Ubuntu based distros are wildly popular
People who like gnome
I think it’s the majority, still. Not sure if that’s technically changed to KDE with Steam Decks though.
Asking “who still uses $thing”, where $thing is the most popular thing in its category, is peak Lemmy.
I think it’s more peak moron. Morons everywhere.
It’s the default for Fedora and I think Debian too but don’t quote me on the second one.
Me I use SUSE which lets me choose what DE to install.
Endeavour also gives DE options during installation.
Unpopular opinion: Gnome software is pretty solid, and if your computer usage patterns overlap with their design, it is quite a lovely DE. I’d rather have something that works well, even if it doesn’t do everything under the sun.
… Except when it doesn’t.
I use Gnome at work, on an older (supposedly stable) version of RedHat and there are a few ways it breaks, but when it does, it Breaks Bad. I would be fine with said breakages if it were not trying to claim focussing on having lesser bugs and in turn reducing customisability to such low levels that changing stuff like animation speed (which, by default is set to productivity destroying speeds), is not possible from the default repos.KDE and related applications are much more tolerable and when I find a bug I tend to be happy to report.
Your computer makes meth?
Err… no.
But I was talking about the workplace computer, so… No idea
That’s fair ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This is even more relevant to Digimon. I have no idea of whether their file format is supported, or how digiworld differs on OS’s. I’d have to guess it’s some type of web protocol? Dunno…
Edit: dug back into my childhood, the Digiworld is stored on a cluster of servers, so those are pretty likely going to be some flavor of linux. Local PC client applications are used for storing Digimon locally IIRC, and we also see in this clip that it appears that the guys are using windows 95 or something similar.
Still alot of questions but
Digimon Tamers implies that Digimons evolve from clusters of loose data in much the same way as lifeforms evolved from chemical matter, and since they can apparently interface with those little handheld devices (probably running on z80 or 6502-esque processors with only a simple kernel by way of an “OS” given it was still the early aughts and ARM had a long way to go) as well as PCs (most likely Windows 98, because early aughts Japan), they seem to be platform-agnostic, able to adapt to any machine in much the same way animals adapt to different biomes.
So you’re a Cinnamon lover then huh?
Cinnamon is pretty dope
I use Plasma because I’m literally this, but Cinnamon is what I’d recommend to people who say they want something “familiar looking but that just gets out of the way so you can start using your computer to do shit” – Which ironically is what Gnome purports itself to be.
I mean, Cinnamon is really just Gnome 2 with new devs.
I mean. Yes. But Gnome 2 was actually good. It was before the Gnome team caught the “cutting out literally everything for seemingly no reason” disease.
Before they started thinking they knew better than everyone else.
I use MATE for this very reason
Plasma fan and aspiring Cosmonaut, though I have Swayed in the past and have a tendency to get Hypr.
Hyprland is pretty cool. Used it for a few montths after I broke my KDE Plasma and couldn’t be fucked to fix it (long story)
This thread is the first time I hear about Cosmic though. Looks interesting in pictures.
Then don’t use gnome?
Also the dock is on the bottom
Its Ubuntu😨😨
Gnome 3
GNOME 1 & 2: The dock is in the bottom by default. It can be moved elsewhere if the user prefers it.
GNOME 3+: The dock is wherever we think the user is likely to find it. Maybe it’s in the bottom. Maybe it’s nowhere. Maybe it’s everywhere. Verily, who can even begin to understand the mysteries of the brain?
Wait what’s Gnome?
The desktop that knows what’s best for you.
The desktop that thinks it knows what’s best for you
i have that desktop and it’s called windows, not gnome
Windows uses AI to determine what’s best for you. GNOME just decides it generally in advance.
AI is new, Windows has been doing it in advance for decades.
This has Animaniacs energy.
Pokémon Tretta runs Gnome??
I haven’t slept in 24hrs and honestly I don’t get the hate. Just use gnome default and it works that’s it. no need to customise just use as is and doesn’t break.
Maybe you should get some sleep
cringe
