- cross-posted to:
- games@sh.itjust.works
- cross-posted to:
- games@sh.itjust.works
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I don’t think we need an article to figure out the answer: Slay the Spire was a megahit and it’s a copycat industry.
I don’t necessarily mean that in a bad way either; there’re always plenty of devs finding interesting new angles on the current hot genre and creating genuinely interesting new games in the process, but also a huge number of devs that end up just chasing the trend and releasing something uninspired/derivative.
The genre can be called “rogue like deck builder” all you want, we all know what it really is: “Spirelike”
I really think it deserves its own genre. Games like Cobalt Core, Balatro, Tower Tactics Liberation, Alina of the Arena and Loop Hero are all unique in their own right and differ greatly in gameplay from Slay the Spire and each other but still hold to the deck building rogue-like core.
Slay the spire is the granddaddy of the genre, but isn’t the single defining example by far.
Right but Rogue isn’t much like modern Roguelikes either. It’s still the genre.
I think the “rogue” in rogue-like refers to the fact that you start over if you die. Not the similarity to the actual game. Am I misunderstanding you?
I think I get what you’re saying, that rogue-like was named after the game and therefore this genre should be named after slay the spire. But I think Rogue named the genre because there wasn’t anything else like it. Slay the Spire is still at the end of the day a mashup of two existing genres.
Rogue was the start of the genre - games that came after we’re always measured against it.
Rogue was a dungeon crawler - a type of game that had been done plenty of times before. Starting over on death had also been done.
But it became genre defining by being the best at both.
Spire I’d say is similar. It is genre defining because the combination of gameplay elements was so perfectly executed that it will become the measuring stick against which all roguelike deck builders will be measured. So Spirelike fits, I think.
Are there any other genres named after games? I’d say rogue is the exception.
Soulslike and Metroidvania spring to mind.
As games become more and more complex these kind of genre defining sets will become more common I think.
It’s not even an original concept. It’s just the popular kid.
How dare they! *Drops another 300 hours in Slay The Spire"
Of all the indie game trends this one is probably my favorite. Feels like a resurgence of awesome card game RPGs that were really rare back in the day
Yeah I’m all for it. I fucking love deck building games.
I was for it for the first 100 clones. Now it’s in the same vein as 2d pixel shooter rougelikes, way too saturated. I never give these a second look because there’s just so many uninspired clones.
Because they’re popular, and they’re super easy to slap together (graphically at least. In theory, you could make a completely text based deck builder and it would function identically to one with fancy graphics).
This is the equivilant of zombie games in the shooter genre. Why program complex ai when you could make braindead (pun intended) bots walk in a straight line at the player and deal damage when they touch them.
It’s even easier than that. Both of these genres have design features that require minimal balancing, making for an even faster dev cycle.
Roguelikes side-step the need for traditional game balance by providing meta progression and building inevitable-death-by-impossible-odds into the core game. For Roguelikes that actually have an ending, all the developer needs to do is provide enough meta progression perks to overcome the game’s peak difficulty, for even the worst of players. Everyone else gets bragging rights for beating the game faster than that. Either way, the lack of balance and “fairness” in the core design are features, not flaws.
Deck builders follow in Magic The Gathering’s footsteps: you never need to fully balance it. Ever. The random draw mechanisms, combined with a deep inventory of resource and item/creature/action cards, make it unlikely that a player gets an overpowered hand all the time. Pepper a few ridiculously overpowered cards in there, and it just feels more fun. Plus, if you keep the gravy train going with regular add-ons, the lack of balance is even further masked by all the possible choices. And yes, some player will min/max a deck at great personal expense and wipe the floor with their opponents because it was never fair in the first place, and doing so is a feature.
zombie shooters peaked with i maed a gam3 w1th z0mb1es 1n it!!!1
Maybe my subjective take of sudden is different, but is it sudden? (aka I progressively succumb to madness over a title)
There’ve been many fantastic roguelike deckbuilders out since 2020, a little after Slay teh Spire’s official release date. It feels more like people have became aware of how fun the subgenre is after the hype Baltaro generated on streaming platforms. If anything is sudden, it’s the second-wind of attention we’re getting thanks to the above-mentioned game.
I know I’m continuing to split hairs over nothing down here, but 861 games is a little misleading once you get to the end: “Surprisingly, deckbuilders are still an underserved market”
You never know when you’ve reached the peak of a trend, but deckbuilders seem like they’re not quite there yet. Games-Stats tracks 527 roguelike deckbuilders, and Dev_Hell’s Westendorp suggests their higher-than-average revenues, wider revenue spread, and demand make them “relatively underserved as a market.”
So, there’s not 861 games, but 527 games?
If you investigate why there’s a large gap in reported game listings, it’s because Steam is including packs like [Slay the Spire x Backpack Hero] and DLC where Game-Stats is tracking the individual games (i.e, bloatless). This ties back to the title - ultimately we’re not trying to answer the literal question, “Why are there 861 roguelike deckbuilders on Steam”, because OP never answers that question. Instead, we are answering an alternative interpretation: “Why are there so many roguelike games appearing on Steam in a short amount of time?” The answer, may shock you:
spoiler
Money, popularity, ez(er) to dev
While I’ve taken those answers from the article, I find it further interesting that they conclude a different question all-together: “Why are roguelike deckbuilders taking off?”
Buh, I’ve lost it. Ultimately I really liked the core article and their enthusiasm, but I’ve driven myself to madness here.
Yeah, this same article can be written for Mini Golf games, or shmups, or visual novels, or any other genre that’s relatively easy to develop for. Once one gets popular, others will jump on because the barrier to entry is fairly low. Lots will be low effort clones, but some will really try to build something new.
I just think it’s refreshing to have a break from all the vampire survivor knock off games.
Because this genre of games is a whoooole lot of fun! I can’t wait to see the next 800, and number 3562, which is gonna elevate the genre to the next level.
Can anyone recommend one? I honestly haven’t played one since slay the spire, and loved it. My wife didn’t enjoy the music after a few hundred hours so I stopped playing a few years ago.
Everyone and their mother is playing Balatro, and for good reason. Super fun deck builder based on a normal playing card deck and poker hands. Great music and visuals, too.
Also, check out Inscryption. Truth be told, it’s not really a true roguelike deckbuilder, rather it uses the genre as a storytelling medium. Still, really fun game with solid core gameplay and an engaging story. There’s also DLC that lets you play more of the deckbuilder part indefinitely.
To anyone reading this - if you try Inscription, go in blind.
I had a lot of fun with Aces & Adventures too, which similarly is based around poker hands but is very different to Balatro.
You know you can turn off the music, right? Just play your own or none at all.
The music in slay the spire is perfectly fine but it gets repetitive after a while. But it’s also a great game to play while listening to podcasts so it’s a non issue
Or use headphoned
Monster train is phenomenal.
It combines tower defense elements and multi deck selections for crazy replayabiity.
It, and as someone else said, balatro, are my 2 favorites since slay the spire.
ring of pain, monster train, inscryption
Space Food Truck is like FTL meets deckbuilding.
Fun stuff, can be played coop too.
Well that sounds like crack to me
I’ve played Wildfrost, but I don’t feel confident in recommending it, because it’s quite hard and very RNG-based. But, maybe that’s your thing. Honestly, I played it just for the art style lol
I had a lot of fun with Cobalt Core. Much more lighthearted; great soundtrack too.
Dreamquest was the original roguelike deck builder, and it had a lot of depth that you wouldn’t expect from its shitty art, I think it’s still worth playing. One of those games that seems extremely difficult until you learn the strategy, it is amazingly well balanced, small mistakes are the difference between win and loss
SpellRogue was fun for a bit but not sure it has staying power the way StS does.
Haven’t seen Vault of the Void mentioned here - I’d rate it higher than most of the others.
I’m hoping more people reply to this than one person. The whole thread only lists slay the spire and balatro.
The keywords here are “copycat,” “clones,” and “shovelware.”
Just like how there’s a million versions of the same shit phone games that are just trash clones of something from the app stores or even old flash games like we’re on pre-sellout Kongregate and Armor Games.
Excites me, helps prove to me that my game idea would do great
All these games and only one of them (Balatro) is even worth playing
I’ve really enjoyed Slay the Spire, Inscryption, Dicey Dungeons, Monster Train, Balatro, Peglin, Hellcard, and Banners of Ruin from this genre.
Slay the Spire is fun (but has aged). Luck be a Landlord is great fun too. And of course the Meteorfall series. All have a slightly different gameplay, but they’re all worth their money.
That said, I (just a casual gamer) learned about Balatro yesterday so am just a couple of hours in to it and must agree it is a blast, too!
Luck be a Landlord was my favorite out if all, Balatro might beat that but I need more hours and exploration.
I have hours in balatro. But, Inscryption is better.
My most played Steam game is Dishonored, at 127 hours. I have replayed it a lot. A rarity for me, but I really liked that game. Dishonored came out in 2012. It’s taken me 12 years to accumulate that many hours.
Balatro came out two months ago.
I have 93 hours in it.
Why is everybody saying slay the spire pioneered the genre when it’s a clone of others?
I don’t think it’s fair to call Slay the Spire (StS) a clone. While Card Quest introduced a lot of the key elements years earlier, StS adds enough innovation that it feels like a totally different game. Definitely would be more fair to say StS popularized a lot of the mechanics rather than invented/pioneered them though.
Really hoped that Fermi Paradox would realize that “flare clicking” is stupid and would switch to deckbuilding mechanism, but the dev is not a fan of deckbuilders.
Oh. I wouldn’t know - I have the Roguelike tag filtered out.
It’s extremely rare that the habit of constantly getting reset to ground zero for little mistakes gives me any sense of adventure.
I find that with the roguelikes where you upgrade in between runs, losing still feels like winning.
But to each their own of course.
