Jalon Hall was featured on Google’s corporate social media accounts “for making #LifeAtGoogle more inclusive!” She says the company discriminated against her on the basis of her disability and race.
I might not have explained myself well. Google didn’t want Gebru’s name on a paper that called out how Google’s products do not support DEI. When pressed, Google doubled down. Google has yet to provide a rational explanation that stands up to scrutiny. With this context, a smart person is going in expecting that if they’re a minority at Google they’re going to be sidelined or mistreated (like in the article).
To your point about going for pay, sure, absolutely. If you do that you don’t really have the ethical ground to complain about it because you’re taking advantage of Google. Explicitly going there to be abused to trigger a suit makes me uncomfortable again from ethical grounds. You’re also not naive here, which is not the group that concerns me. I feel like the woman in the article was naive (which doesn’t mean she doesn’t deserve justice; it just means she should have expected this).
I also want to address the whole “you hate capitalism yet participate in” criticism that could come from this. Totally valid. To change a system you have to participate in it. You also have to know what you can change. If you’re anything below the top two or three tiers of power or are not willing to follow Google without question for years until you reach those echelons of power, you have no agency at Google (or any similar major corporation). You cannot change it and to believe so is naive. Take, for example, how Google effectively terminates union organizers with a slap on the wrist (if anything at all). Or look at Google’s explicit move to DoD contracts after pretending to care post Project Maven. Gebru is, again, a perfect example because Google leaders decided to shut down an industry leader.
In general I’m pretty vehemently anti-FAANG on ethical grounds and that colors a lot of my commentary. The only reason I can understand to go work at them is money or, if you’re a very select few, resources to solve interesting problems. If you choose to work at FAANG for those reasons and your reaction when something like this happens is anything other than surprise, I don’t know what you expected.
You seemed to have missed my comment about naivety. If you don’t expect to be taken advantage of, you’re naive, not unethical. Life has lots of lessons to teach you. If you do know Google is unethical and you choose to go there and you choose to rightfully respond to Google breaking the law, that’s unethical. It’s right, sure, but it’s unethical. You know you’re going to sue them. That shouldn’t be the basis for making an employment decision. Again, totally the right thing to do, just a very greedy approach to everything.
As for your other comment, if money were the only factor in selecting a job, you would leave your job the second you were offered a cent more. If that’s how you work, that’s different from most other folks, who tend to consider a variety of factors. Changing jobs is a lot of work so there’s a minimum threshold. The company itself is also a huge factor that will change that threshold. What about a job that requires you to work 24/7?
Wow, I wasn’t aware that every employer in the world actively discriminated as much as Google does. I had no idea because there’s zero news coverage that you have zero options. You should get the word out!
Good luck with all your lawsuits. You must be really rich by now what with literally no allies and no employers ever trying to do the right thing. No wonder you support FAANG companies!
I get what you’re saying, but I feel like this and that are two different things.
I think there are plenty of smart people that understand that Google can and will do this sort of thing, but will also pay them a buttload of money.
I might not have explained myself well. Google didn’t want Gebru’s name on a paper that called out how Google’s products do not support DEI. When pressed, Google doubled down. Google has yet to provide a rational explanation that stands up to scrutiny. With this context, a smart person is going in expecting that if they’re a minority at Google they’re going to be sidelined or mistreated (like in the article).
To your point about going for pay, sure, absolutely. If you do that you don’t really have the ethical ground to complain about it because you’re taking advantage of Google. Explicitly going there to be abused to trigger a suit makes me uncomfortable again from ethical grounds. You’re also not naive here, which is not the group that concerns me. I feel like the woman in the article was naive (which doesn’t mean she doesn’t deserve justice; it just means she should have expected this).
I also want to address the whole “you hate capitalism yet participate in” criticism that could come from this. Totally valid. To change a system you have to participate in it. You also have to know what you can change. If you’re anything below the top two or three tiers of power or are not willing to follow Google without question for years until you reach those echelons of power, you have no agency at Google (or any similar major corporation). You cannot change it and to believe so is naive. Take, for example, how Google effectively terminates union organizers with a slap on the wrist (if anything at all). Or look at Google’s explicit move to DoD contracts after pretending to care post Project Maven. Gebru is, again, a perfect example because Google leaders decided to shut down an industry leader.
In general I’m pretty vehemently anti-FAANG on ethical grounds and that colors a lot of my commentary. The only reason I can understand to go work at them is money or, if you’re a very select few, resources to solve interesting problems. If you choose to work at FAANG for those reasons and your reaction when something like this happens is anything other than surprise, I don’t know what you expected.
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You seemed to have missed my comment about naivety. If you don’t expect to be taken advantage of, you’re naive, not unethical. Life has lots of lessons to teach you. If you do know Google is unethical and you choose to go there and you choose to rightfully respond to Google breaking the law, that’s unethical. It’s right, sure, but it’s unethical. You know you’re going to sue them. That shouldn’t be the basis for making an employment decision. Again, totally the right thing to do, just a very greedy approach to everything.
As for your other comment, if money were the only factor in selecting a job, you would leave your job the second you were offered a cent more. If that’s how you work, that’s different from most other folks, who tend to consider a variety of factors. Changing jobs is a lot of work so there’s a minimum threshold. The company itself is also a huge factor that will change that threshold. What about a job that requires you to work 24/7?
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Wow, I wasn’t aware that every employer in the world actively discriminated as much as Google does. I had no idea because there’s zero news coverage that you have zero options. You should get the word out!
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Good luck with all your lawsuits. You must be really rich by now what with literally no allies and no employers ever trying to do the right thing. No wonder you support FAANG companies!
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christ fucking stop with the dumbass posts that look like they came from the orange site, we don’t want them here
Thank you for taking the time to expand on your comment!
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