Leftists ain’t going anywhere but in circles anyway, so I don’t see the point of looking down your nose at people that are finally beginning to generate a bit of positive momentum.
There’s not gonna be some grand workers revolution that disembowels capitalism. Capitalists won’t give up without a fight, people won’t want to pay that butcher’s bill, and Communist states have historically not fared well under pressure from capitalist rivals. Unless some global natural disaster threatens modern civilization on a fundamental level, capitalism or something like it but worse (cyberpunk-style “corporations are basically the real nations” thing I guess?) is likely here to stay.
What do we gain by playing No True Scotsman with people who are pushing in the same general direction?
In what way? The Soviets ain’t around anymore. China has changed significantly from the time of Mao. North Korea survives only because it’s convenient for the Chinese for them to do so. Vietnam is doing pretty well. Cuba is still around. What else?
Capitalist nations subjugate each other, but would that not happen if everyone were Communist? States would still have irreconcilable differences. Or are we thinking of a truly utopian future here?
While there was pressure from the outside, outside pressure did not kill the USSR. China changing since the time of Mao is a given, even if they followed the path of the Gang of Four to today, this would still look radically different from the era of Mao simply due to economic development. China of today is still a socialist economy. The DPRK survives because it is heavily millitarized and focuses on economic independence, with nuclear deterrence. Vietnam and Laos are both doing well as well. Cuba is still trucking along.
As for “subjugation,” I think it’s better to understand why this happens and for what reason. Capitalist states eventually see a merging of bank and industrial capital, creating finance capital, and this monopoly stage of capitalism is what drives imperialism. Socialist states do not have such an economic drive. While conflict persists, there is more of a drive for cooperation, consolidation, and increasing sovereignty. This is not “Utopian,” this is the recognition that centralization of production is economically compelled, which is why States have largely merged over the years, similar to corporations.
What would a global economy with Communism as the rule of the land look like? Those of us in the developed world would surely have to give up some of the luxuries we’re used to if the workers in the nations providing the raw materials and gross production got their fair share.
Has anyone tried to create that particular “what if?” scenario?
If the world were all on the same page, then production and distribution would be far better anyways, and the working classes in developed countries would also benefit. Working together works.
Yeah, I figure that’s a given. But with our world reliant on imperialism and unfair trade, what would a world built on equitable trade look like? What level of comfort would the average person have, regardless of nation?
I guess I’m trying to picture what an average person’s life would look like if the majority of the world went Communist. I’d assume that developed nations would have fewer luxuries because they’d no longer be siphoning wealth from undeveloped nations and trade would be equitable. Right?
Those policies will always get overturned eventually. Think ofthe New Deal in the USA only took till the 70’s to undo it and reagan to implement the opposite.
Liberal policies cant work longterm its an historic fact.
Also stop coming to leftist spaces and berate us for not thinkign like you.
Leftists ain’t going anywhere but in circles anyway, so I don’t see the point of looking down your nose at people that are finally beginning to generate a bit of positive momentum.
There’s not gonna be some grand workers revolution that disembowels capitalism. Capitalists won’t give up without a fight, people won’t want to pay that butcher’s bill, and Communist states have historically not fared well under pressure from capitalist rivals. Unless some global natural disaster threatens modern civilization on a fundamental level, capitalism or something like it but worse (cyberpunk-style “corporations are basically the real nations” thing I guess?) is likely here to stay.
What do we gain by playing No True Scotsman with people who are pushing in the same general direction?
Socialist states have generally suffered as any country would under outside pressure, but fared better than capitalist peers to similar pressures.
In what way? The Soviets ain’t around anymore. China has changed significantly from the time of Mao. North Korea survives only because it’s convenient for the Chinese for them to do so. Vietnam is doing pretty well. Cuba is still around. What else?
Capitalist nations subjugate each other, but would that not happen if everyone were Communist? States would still have irreconcilable differences. Or are we thinking of a truly utopian future here?
While there was pressure from the outside, outside pressure did not kill the USSR. China changing since the time of Mao is a given, even if they followed the path of the Gang of Four to today, this would still look radically different from the era of Mao simply due to economic development. China of today is still a socialist economy. The DPRK survives because it is heavily millitarized and focuses on economic independence, with nuclear deterrence. Vietnam and Laos are both doing well as well. Cuba is still trucking along.
As for “subjugation,” I think it’s better to understand why this happens and for what reason. Capitalist states eventually see a merging of bank and industrial capital, creating finance capital, and this monopoly stage of capitalism is what drives imperialism. Socialist states do not have such an economic drive. While conflict persists, there is more of a drive for cooperation, consolidation, and increasing sovereignty. This is not “Utopian,” this is the recognition that centralization of production is economically compelled, which is why States have largely merged over the years, similar to corporations.
What would a global economy with Communism as the rule of the land look like? Those of us in the developed world would surely have to give up some of the luxuries we’re used to if the workers in the nations providing the raw materials and gross production got their fair share.
Has anyone tried to create that particular “what if?” scenario?
If the world were all on the same page, then production and distribution would be far better anyways, and the working classes in developed countries would also benefit. Working together works.
Yeah, I figure that’s a given. But with our world reliant on imperialism and unfair trade, what would a world built on equitable trade look like? What level of comfort would the average person have, regardless of nation?
What point in time are you talking about? You’re asking me to hit a moving target and make an outlandishy speculative claim. For what purpose?
I guess I’m trying to picture what an average person’s life would look like if the majority of the world went Communist. I’d assume that developed nations would have fewer luxuries because they’d no longer be siphoning wealth from undeveloped nations and trade would be equitable. Right?
@grinning_serpent WE already did have plenty of SocDem Countries including Germany, where even the conservative party CDU pushed for it in 1949
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%BCsseldorfer/_Leits%C3%A4tze
Those policies will always get overturned eventually. Think ofthe New Deal in the USA only took till the 70’s to undo it and reagan to implement the opposite.
Liberal policies cant work longterm its an historic fact.
Also stop coming to leftist spaces and berate us for not thinkign like you.