Ok, this gonna sound polemic and I’m gonna try to not use any adjectives. (Except for once)
The thing is that sometimes I feel like many stories try to appeal to a broad audience, but regardless of what they aim for, a lot of the time the audience ends up being (I’ll allow myself this just once) men rather than women. I’m not sure if this happens with the animated series of Avatar, but I do notice that with Star Trek, even though they try to make everyone feel represented, the reality is that the average viewer is, well, just that—the average person in the country where it’s broadcast.
In the case of Avatar, it’s criticized by some Japanese people because they associate it more with China, to the point that they label it as almost racist when it’s compared to Japanese animation (anime). What I mean is that no matter how much a series tries to appeal to a general audience or to please everyone, that’s never really going to happen; it will always end up having a group with shared characteristics that likes it.
But what do you think? Can there be stories that anyone—regardless of gender, ethnicity, or country—can enjoy? I think the closest thing to that is Harry Potter, and well, you know what the creator is like, but that’s not the point here.
It’s hard to explain, but this is more aimed at writers or any other creative producer: do you write with a specific audience in mind, or do you think that everyone will like what you create?
There are a lot of unknowns in this question, and assumptions filling in for facts about audiences (intended as well as actual viewership), writers/producers — and the gender ratio of each group. Throwing international, culturally diverse audiences into the mix doesn’t do much to focus the subject.
There’s a lot to unpick, especially when replies to comments show you’re also implicitly concerned with the “anti-woke” crowd and their perceived gender majority. As well as their outsized public voice (ie, loudness) compared to their actual numbers, as @ValueSubtracted@startrek.website says.
Personally, and therefore also based in assumption, I don’t see Trek as written for an “average viewer” vs an actual, predominantly male audience. I’ve only observed Trek viewers to be a fair mix of all gender identities, and the show’s appeal to such a wide spectrum must come from the show itself, as written and produced.
But the individual shows must also be considered in isolation. Where shows like Discovery and SFA have celebrated woke (ie, humanist, progressive) values, I very much perceive the SNW show runners as a gang of old, male fans who somehow have been allowed to create the world’s most expensive, regressive fanfic. But that’s me.
My mother and I had very little in common outside of us both liking Star Trek. It was the bridge that allowed us to reconnect after I hadn’t spoken to her in 12 years.
My wife also enjoys it, and my Dad, brother and sister aren’t fussed about it at all.
So, from my immediate family, all of the fans are women.
I think the closest thing to that is Harry Potter
Regardless of JK’s bigotry, Harry Potter just isn’t that good, it’s kids books that never evolve beyond that, that makes it easy reading and good for fanslop, but it’s really a bunch of stories where the good guys are good because they are good and the bad guys are bad because they are bad, there is no complexity or real world morality, it’s just slop of kids that people who never read books for adults like. Which makes it good to make movieslop from.
do you write with a specific audience in mind
Have we learnt nothing from the SnyderCut? imagining a fan to make your movie for makes for bad movies.
Hey, Harry Potter has plenty of moral complexity and greyness! It features a lot of important political issues like “how to be a good slaveowner” and “making sure the holocaust happens”
Hahahaha
the audience ends up being (I’ll allow myself this just once) men rather than women
I know Trek has a rep here for the fans all being guys—specifically guys who can’t get a date—but I don’t know if it holds up to much scrutiny. The campaigns to rescue TOS were spearheaded by Bjo Trimble and I believe the participants were a pretty mixed crowd, including a lot of women who appreciated good sci-fi in addition to those who thought that—in the immortal words of Isaac Asimov’s daughter—“Mr. Spock is dreamy.” I haven’t been to a lot of cons, but the ones I’ve seen felt like pretty mixed crowds as well.
the average viewer is, well, just that—the average person in the country where it’s broadcast
Isn’t the average in most countries a roughly equal split of men and women?
Can there be stories that anyone—regardless of gender, ethnicity, or country—can enjoy?
Sure - there are plenty of global mega-hits, from the MCU to Star Wars to The Fast and the Furious.
But I don’t think you can (or should, really) separate a work from the cultural context that led to its creation.
“MCU” and “Star Wars” has not complaing of “being woke” by the majority of their own fandom? And in compare of Star Trek they are actually more people anti-woke people on the fandom.
As far as I know, people complaing about Rey for being a “mary stu” even with characters as Starkiller without the same complaing the writing just because he is a guy.
I never see women enoying The Fast and Furious.
If there’s one thing people need to realize about the “anti-woke” crowd, it’s that outside of poisoning online spaces, they don’t matter.
They are very loud, but at the end of the day, there’s not actually that many of them. The box office numbers speak for themselves.
And it’s an anecdote, but the single biggest F&F fan I know is a woman.
I think it does matter in fandoms which are like the 60%, literally every single person I meet which like MCU is like “Dude, you remember that forced scene when all girls are in the same scene only for ‘girl power’?”
And the movie still made nearly $2.8 billion.
Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s important to foster healthy online spaces that are free of that sort of nonsense - I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t - but that crowd is a drop in the bucket when it comes to the actual audience.
They’re just loud, obnoxious, and spurred on by grifters.
ahh yes, as opposed to the scenes where all the boys group up for boy power
Why?
Was there a significant decrease in viewership due to that? or was it because all the MCU movies became fanslop that eventually the fans realized were shit movies?
I’m happy to be the exception to the rule, then. I’m a woman who enjoyed the F&F movies up to maybe the 6th one.
Tokyo Drift can fuck right off, though.
