It utterly boggles the mind that it’s legal to sell homeopathic products. The word scam comes to mind, but it’s so much worse than that because it’s a scam that doesn’t merely do nothing; it actually causes harm by confusing people and causing general distrust of actual treatments.
Labeling doesn’t help either. Apparently the FTC understands the general public is dumb enough that we need “don’t drink this” labels on bleach, but they credit them with being able to see through the confusing mumbo-jumbo that homeopathic products put on their labels to disguise the fact that it’s just water.
Is this… homeopathic cleaner? So like… just water? I notice they didn’t dilute the dye for some reason. I wonder why homeopathic theories don’t seem to work on color and scent additives…
Some things labeled as homeopathic do work… because they have real stuff in them that does work…and perhaps does have side effects known and unknown not to mention interactions.
I used the original formula Snore Stop which was originally marked as homeopathic snore help, and it worked. It also was slowly slowing down my tongue and making talking trickier. The FDA decided it had actual levels of plant extract that was lightly paralytic. The newer formula didn’t work as well for me plus I worried about cumulative consequences.
Isn’t the rule that if it’s really homeopathic then it won’t do anything and if it really does it’s a medicine?
If what you had was effective, it wasn’t homeopathic. Homeopathy requires very large amounts of dilution, to the point there aren’t even two molecules of the active ingredient present in a dose.
Not quite. Homeopathy is a medical belief structure consisting of certain practices that attempt to cure “like with like”. It has shown no benefits over placebos or other medical treatments, and on certain occasions, has been shown to have serious consequences.
There are many parts to homeopathy that are widely criticized, such as “potentisation”, a process of diluting a substance to such a degree that there contains little or none of the beginning ingredient. Additionally, since the goal is to treat symptoms by using like symptoms, the causes are never truly addressed, especially since the underlying philosophy of homeopathy is that the body can cure itself.
Thus, if you were helped by a homeopathic medicine, it was more than statistically likely a placebo effect. Please do not rely on homeopathy for medicine.
That’s the point. The product DID things. In fact it raised the attention of the FDA and they changed it. Theres all kinds of products trying to fly below radar.
Not how that works, and also not true. If it’s marked as homeopathic, it’s NOT approved by the FDA. There are FDA guidelines for homeopathic medicines, including the use of active ingredients, but they are specifically not approved by the FDA. And looking at Snore Stop, it never stopped being homeopathic, so no idea what you’re talking about.
Used their website, which would definitely have stated as such. I feel like you want to suggest that homeopathic medicine is good, but homeopathic medicine doesn’t have to prove it is effective nor that there aren’t any side effects. Labeling as homeopathic is just a way to put products out and avoid the FDA or having to prove it works.
In this particular case, being labelled as homeopathic IS typically a sign that it does not work and might actually cause harm.
No, I wanted to point out vaguely herbal remedies masquerading as homeopathic.
If some things labeled as homeopathic actually aren’t as in they actually contain ingredients that have actual impacts it could give false credit to the whole genre, right?
Memory of water bullshit - no argument there from me. Some chemicals can be very dilute, but still present, and can still aid or harm. Fentanyl is a great current example, or the crazy tiny amount of peanut it takes to hurt someone highly allergic etc.
Those? They can say homeopathic on the label but if they contain enough of anything to work or harm medicinally then they are lying.
So you have products labeled as homeopathic that might work or hurt people, and then placebo stuff.
If I take 1 grain of fentanyl powder, and sell it diluted in an entire liter of water, it might sound like homeopathy, I might label it as such, but it isn’t because there’s enough powerful chemical present to have consequences if consumed.
Perhaps you are confused that two things are called homeopathy?
Homeopathy is a medical belief system. Homeopathic medicines originated from this. But other (unregulated) medicines wanted to use this, too. That’s how these medicines can be labelled like this, but this labeling is not restricted to the homeopathic system, and is used by ANYONE that doesn’t want to be regulated the same way.
Homeopathic medicine is unlikely to help you because it is unregulated. If there were studies that showed effectiveness and safety, they wouldn’t hide behind the homeopathic label. That doesn’t mean that they don’t do anything, because they are allowed to contain active ingredients.
Dilution advocated by Hahnemann for most purposes: on average, this would require giving two billion doses per second to six billion people for 4 billion years to deliver a single molecule of the original material to any patient.
because they have real stuff in them that does work
No. Don’t confuse homeopathy with herbal remedies. Homeopathic preparations are diluted, must be diluted to be homeopathic, to a degree where you don’t have an atom left of “active” ingredient in the mix, insert some gross unscientific explanation about the “memory of water”. That then is either taken directly, or sprinkled on sugar.
The effects of homeopathic preparations, any of them, is not distinguishable from placebo. If you look at them under a spectrograph they are exactly placebo: Water or sugar.
Herbal remedies, though? It’s a hit and miss, some have been tested to not have an effect or not really the assumed one, a metric fuckton do have effects exactly as traditional use tells us (random examples: Valerian for nervous excitation, elderberry for colds), others very much do have effects but are not used because they’re too dangerous (e.g. fern against tapeworms: Fern contains a neurotoxin and getting the dose wrong is easy, and easily fatal, nowadays we have synthetic stuff that’s toxic to tapeworms but harmless for humans).
There’s one single thing that’s proven to be clinically effective about homeopathic treatment (compared to standard practice): The way doctors talk to patients, not just hearing reports about a particular symptom and then digging down into that, but taking stock of pretty much their whole life situation, it’s a very broad interview. Because, yes, many people are indeed better helped by someone being visibly interested in their well-being than swallowing clinically active pharmaceuticals against their stomach bug which is actually a symptom of stress or such.
There’d be nothing whatsoever wrong with introducing that in standard care, it’ll probably even save tons of money in the long run, as well as prescribing placebo – the patient knowing that it’s placebo doesn’t mean that placebo effects don’t get triggered, there’s still a very good chance of an effect happening, the bodymind is funny like that. If in doubt, flank with hypnotherapy you’ll have a regime that’s not just more effective at triggering placebo effects than homeopathy, but is also ethical.
God, all these people ignoring “labeled as homeopathic”…
Because yeah, there are “homeopathic” remedies on the market that actually contain significant quantities of their ingredients, they’re just using the word for marketing. Most of them do nothing, or are just a slightly higher dose of what you’d get from sleepytime tea. A very well-known muscle relaxant in that niche says it contains something like the equivalent of half an ounce each of valerian root, lemon balm, etc once you break down the obfuscation.
Homeopathy is total bunk, but it seems like there is no shortage of companies happy to defraud the believers, going so far as to actually give them what they think they’re buying.
Isn’t the rule that if it’s really homeopathic then it won’t do anything and if it really does it’s a medicine?
Not quite. I don’t know anything about the labeling on the particular product you used, but homeopathy is a magical process and not a chemical one. It relies on the theories that “like cures like” and that “water has a memory”. A homeopathic remedy for a cold might use black pepper since it makes you sneeze, and then a tiny bit is added to water, and then that water is shaken to make it magical and diluted 50%. The shaking and diluting is allegedly performed tens or hundreds of times, because in homeopathy the LESS “active” ingredient there is, the stronger it is.
You’re correct that an herbal or other traditional remedy becomes medicine once it’s proven. However homeopathy has been conclusively disproven, and in fact never proven to work better than placebo (because that’s all it is - there’s intentionally nothing actually in it)
It utterly boggles the mind that it’s legal to sell homeopathic products. The word scam comes to mind, but it’s so much worse than that because it’s a scam that doesn’t merely do nothing; it actually causes harm by confusing people and causing general distrust of actual treatments.
Labeling doesn’t help either. Apparently the FTC understands the general public is dumb enough that we need “don’t drink this” labels on bleach, but they credit them with being able to see through the confusing mumbo-jumbo that homeopathic products put on their labels to disguise the fact that it’s just water.
In fairness… have you seen Fabuloso bottles? :)
yummie joose :3
That was the first product that made me want to post in the forbidden snacks community back in the dark years
Mmmm! Jungle juice and Covid cure all in one!
Sweet Jesus that looks good. I want to use it as a cleanser after eating tide pods.
Is this… homeopathic cleaner? So like… just water? I notice they didn’t dilute the dye for some reason. I wonder why homeopathic theories don’t seem to work on color and scent additives…
Fabuloso is real cleaner, parent comment is just saying it looks tasty.
Ah ok! Whoosh! Thanks for explaining that.
Yes, it does look like some kind of juice drink!
Some things labeled as homeopathic do work… because they have real stuff in them that does work…and perhaps does have side effects known and unknown not to mention interactions.
I used the original formula Snore Stop which was originally marked as homeopathic snore help, and it worked. It also was slowly slowing down my tongue and making talking trickier. The FDA decided it had actual levels of plant extract that was lightly paralytic. The newer formula didn’t work as well for me plus I worried about cumulative consequences.
Isn’t the rule that if it’s really homeopathic then it won’t do anything and if it really does it’s a medicine?
If what you had was effective, it wasn’t homeopathic. Homeopathy requires very large amounts of dilution, to the point there aren’t even two molecules of the active ingredient present in a dose.
Not quite. Homeopathy is a medical belief structure consisting of certain practices that attempt to cure “like with like”. It has shown no benefits over placebos or other medical treatments, and on certain occasions, has been shown to have serious consequences.
There are many parts to homeopathy that are widely criticized, such as “potentisation”, a process of diluting a substance to such a degree that there contains little or none of the beginning ingredient. Additionally, since the goal is to treat symptoms by using like symptoms, the causes are never truly addressed, especially since the underlying philosophy of homeopathy is that the body can cure itself.
Thus, if you were helped by a homeopathic medicine, it was more than statistically likely a placebo effect. Please do not rely on homeopathy for medicine.
That’s the point. The product DID things. In fact it raised the attention of the FDA and they changed it. Theres all kinds of products trying to fly below radar.
Not how that works, and also not true. If it’s marked as homeopathic, it’s NOT approved by the FDA. There are FDA guidelines for homeopathic medicines, including the use of active ingredients, but they are specifically not approved by the FDA. And looking at Snore Stop, it never stopped being homeopathic, so no idea what you’re talking about.
We’re you able to find reference to the composition change 20ish years back?
Used their website, which would definitely have stated as such. I feel like you want to suggest that homeopathic medicine is good, but homeopathic medicine doesn’t have to prove it is effective nor that there aren’t any side effects. Labeling as homeopathic is just a way to put products out and avoid the FDA or having to prove it works.
In this particular case, being labelled as homeopathic IS typically a sign that it does not work and might actually cause harm.
No, I wanted to point out vaguely herbal remedies masquerading as homeopathic.
If some things labeled as homeopathic actually aren’t as in they actually contain ingredients that have actual impacts it could give false credit to the whole genre, right?
Memory of water bullshit - no argument there from me. Some chemicals can be very dilute, but still present, and can still aid or harm. Fentanyl is a great current example, or the crazy tiny amount of peanut it takes to hurt someone highly allergic etc.
Those? They can say homeopathic on the label but if they contain enough of anything to work or harm medicinally then they are lying.
So you have products labeled as homeopathic that might work or hurt people, and then placebo stuff.
If I take 1 grain of fentanyl powder, and sell it diluted in an entire liter of water, it might sound like homeopathy, I might label it as such, but it isn’t because there’s enough powerful chemical present to have consequences if consumed.
Perhaps you are confused that two things are called homeopathy?
Homeopathy is a medical belief system. Homeopathic medicines originated from this. But other (unregulated) medicines wanted to use this, too. That’s how these medicines can be labelled like this, but this labeling is not restricted to the homeopathic system, and is used by ANYONE that doesn’t want to be regulated the same way.
Homeopathic medicine is unlikely to help you because it is unregulated. If there were studies that showed effectiveness and safety, they wouldn’t hide behind the homeopathic label. That doesn’t mean that they don’t do anything, because they are allowed to contain active ingredients.
Please just read about on the FDA’s website: https://www.fda.gov/drugs/information-drug-class/homeopathic-products
The standard dilution is 1:1060. Wikipedia helpfully did the maths:
No. Don’t confuse homeopathy with herbal remedies. Homeopathic preparations are diluted, must be diluted to be homeopathic, to a degree where you don’t have an atom left of “active” ingredient in the mix, insert some gross unscientific explanation about the “memory of water”. That then is either taken directly, or sprinkled on sugar.
The effects of homeopathic preparations, any of them, is not distinguishable from placebo. If you look at them under a spectrograph they are exactly placebo: Water or sugar.
Herbal remedies, though? It’s a hit and miss, some have been tested to not have an effect or not really the assumed one, a metric fuckton do have effects exactly as traditional use tells us (random examples: Valerian for nervous excitation, elderberry for colds), others very much do have effects but are not used because they’re too dangerous (e.g. fern against tapeworms: Fern contains a neurotoxin and getting the dose wrong is easy, and easily fatal, nowadays we have synthetic stuff that’s toxic to tapeworms but harmless for humans).
There’s one single thing that’s proven to be clinically effective about homeopathic treatment (compared to standard practice): The way doctors talk to patients, not just hearing reports about a particular symptom and then digging down into that, but taking stock of pretty much their whole life situation, it’s a very broad interview. Because, yes, many people are indeed better helped by someone being visibly interested in their well-being than swallowing clinically active pharmaceuticals against their stomach bug which is actually a symptom of stress or such.
There’d be nothing whatsoever wrong with introducing that in standard care, it’ll probably even save tons of money in the long run, as well as prescribing placebo – the patient knowing that it’s placebo doesn’t mean that placebo effects don’t get triggered, there’s still a very good chance of an effect happening, the bodymind is funny like that. If in doubt, flank with hypnotherapy you’ll have a regime that’s not just more effective at triggering placebo effects than homeopathy, but is also ethical.
God, all these people ignoring “labeled as homeopathic”…
Because yeah, there are “homeopathic” remedies on the market that actually contain significant quantities of their ingredients, they’re just using the word for marketing. Most of them do nothing, or are just a slightly higher dose of what you’d get from sleepytime tea. A very well-known muscle relaxant in that niche says it contains something like the equivalent of half an ounce each of valerian root, lemon balm, etc once you break down the obfuscation.
Homeopathy is total bunk, but it seems like there is no shortage of companies happy to defraud the believers, going so far as to actually give them what they think they’re buying.
Not quite. I don’t know anything about the labeling on the particular product you used, but homeopathy is a magical process and not a chemical one. It relies on the theories that “like cures like” and that “water has a memory”. A homeopathic remedy for a cold might use black pepper since it makes you sneeze, and then a tiny bit is added to water, and then that water is shaken to make it magical and diluted 50%. The shaking and diluting is allegedly performed tens or hundreds of times, because in homeopathy the LESS “active” ingredient there is, the stronger it is.
You’re correct that an herbal or other traditional remedy becomes medicine once it’s proven. However homeopathy has been conclusively disproven, and in fact never proven to work better than placebo (because that’s all it is - there’s intentionally nothing actually in it)