• Sandinband [any, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    Like, I want a kid if I ever get decently financially stable, I love kids and the idea that I might never get to have a few of my own is a major source of my depression. But I’m getting old and my current partners both like and want kids but are far away from me, and not financially stable either, and are trans women so we can’t have biological kids

    I honestly don’t see how this isn’t framing adoption as your last resort before just not having kids?

    Anyway the options you present above arent really available for me.

    If adoption or an alternative has to happen the priority should be the child, not the adults.

    I wouldnt do any of this anyway? Is this stuff inherent to adoption somehow in ways that Im not aware of?

    Yes. This is standard in the us.

    Also sounds like it would be better if I adopted (or did guardianship for?) a white child

    Yes, if you are white it is better you raise a white child than a non white child

    And there would still be cases like teen parents who are simply not ready to raise a kid.

    With access to better sex ed, contraceptives, and abortion there would not be a large domestic supply of infants. Also many teen parents do not want to give their child up for adoption but are coerced with financial incentives.

    I mean, I agree with this, but we’re a long way off from providing economic justice for everyone

    The current solution to this is not to buy a human being, it is to support struggling families via mutual aid or the previous alternatives to adoption mentioned. Obviously under the current system there are children in need but the system perpetuates the conditions that create children in need so they can be sold to white, wealthy families who want infants (i specify infants as they are the gold standard for what most adoptive families want and theyre the most expensive to adopt) so choosing to participate in it helps create financial incentives for the industry

    I fucked up the formating so I have to put this down here, sorry

    not active in my community. And unfortunately because of my autism and the way that childcare is corrupted by capitalism my options for working in childcare are limited

    That is not what I meant by community care, a different example: you’re a white person who grew up in say New Orleans, it would be better for you to raise a white child also from New orleans so they would be closer to their biological family and raised in a somewhat similar culture to what they would have anyway. This is preferable to you buying a Black kid from Haiti and raising them in a majority white area.

    If youre officially diagnosed with autism it will heavily effect your ability to adopt in the traditional sense. The system is also incredibly ableist, which effects which mothers have their children taken away and in turn, also effects who can buy their child. If youre not officially diagnosed it probably won’t effect you or if you have enough money

    Also fucked up the formating again and can’t do a quote for your last part, sorry

    What sources do you want for my experience not being “more than anecdotal”? The examples of children being taken from their mothers due to ableism, racism, imperialism, and classim? How adoptees do better when not completely separated from their country of birth and culture to be raised by and around no one who looks like them? Adoption being a tool of genocide? Other experiences from actual adoptees and not the adoption agencies that profit off of selling us?

    Genuinely asking

    • autismdragon [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      Other experiences of adoptees or preferably even data surveying them would be great yeah. The thing I’m curious about is your individual negative experience.

      I honestly don’t see how this isn’t framing adoption as your last resort before just not having kids?

      Sorry to give that impression. My later statement clarifies that adoption would (have been) my first choice regardless. That said, I do feel like your stance here kind of stigmatizes queer couples in a way I’m a bit uncomfortable about.

      If adoption or an alternative has to happen the priority should be the child, not the adults.

      I agree with this. I think you’re writing me off as a narcissist that I am very much not. I am very much a child-first person. I can see now how phrasing things as “wanting to have a kid” could be seen that way, even though its a very common desire. Im more interested in being involved in the care of children in any possible way because its the only thing that drives me. But I would also prefer to have the chance to have a child I am the primary guardian of because caring for other people’s children can be a frustrating experience when they are neglectful or abusive. Honestly, my experiance in childcare, and one shared by many people I know who’s experiance with their biological parents were negative, is that a person’s biological family are often the WORST people for that child. “Parental rights” is a right wing dogwhistle for a reason, and a cover for abuse. I’m a community based childcare advocate (kids should have a variety of nonfamily adults in their lives so abuse has no place to hide) but getting us to that point is a long way off.

      Yes. This is standard in the us.

      Thats awful. Can I just like, not do that though? Surely as the person doing the adopting I would have the choice to say “No, I dont want to erase this kid’s past, that is not my goal”.

      Yes, if you are white it is better you raise a white child than a non white child

      I can see how this is true, but I also can’t shake the feeling that there is something racist or “woke segregation” about this attitude as well? I have mixed feelings about it.

      With access to better sex ed, contraceptives, and abortion there would not be a large domestic supply of infants. Also many teen parents do not want to give their child up for adoption but are coerced with financial incentives.

      Agreed with the first part obviously. With the second part though, I’m a bit hesitant to say that a naive child who thinks they want to keep their child should be able to. I’m not sure they are ready to consent to that. If they have family who are able to help them then sure, but if they’d be the only caregiver? I feel like that almost always ends poorly for the child. Are we acutally being child-first here or are we being biological parent-first? Because there’s a pretty big difference, and the two are often inappropriately conflated.

      The current solution to this is not to buy a human being, it is to support struggling families via mutual aid or the previous alternatives to adoption mentioned. Obviously under the current system there are children in need but the system perpetuates the conditions that create children in need so they can be sold to white, wealthy families who want infants (i specify infants as they are the gold standard for what most adoptive families want and theyre the most expensive to adopt) so choosing to participate in it helps create financial incentives for the industry

      First of all, I would rather NOT have to pay money for a child because I find that system disgusting too. Children shouldnt be a market. But I mean, is your answer here to leave kids in the system? Surely a stable home is better for kids than the system? And again the more I write about this the more I want to say, what about kids from genuinely abusive homes. There are a LOT of those. And the more I read about your stance the more I think your stance is inappropriately weighting the rights of a biological parent OVER that of the child, while claiming to be child-first.

      That is not what I meant by community care, a different example: you’re a white person who grew up in say New Orleans, it would be better for you to raise a white child also from New orleans so they would be closer to their biological family and raised in a somewhat similar culture to what they would have anyway. This is preferable to you buying a Black kid from Haiti and raising them in a majority white area.

      OK, so adopt/be a guardian for a local kid. Got it.

      I am officially diagnosed and yes thats a concern of mine. Honestly I realize that none of this is probably ever going to be a possibility for me anyway. And that makes me very sad. Because I am very good with kids and I know I’d be a good father.