- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmit.online
- hackernews@derp.foo
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmit.online
- hackernews@derp.foo
Disney’s Loki faces backlash over reported use of generative AI / A Loki season 2 poster has been linked to a stock image on Shutterstock that seemingly breaks the platform’s licensing rules regard…::A promotional poster for the second season of Loki on Disney Plus has sparked controversy amongst professional designers following claims that it was created using generative AI.
To call this simply “analysis” is wildly disingenuous. AI isn’t simply offering data about those works, they are using them to create effective replacements for those works, at expense of those artists’ careers. Even calling them “public” is reductive, because being publicly displayed in some manner does not mean they ceased to be copyrighted works.
You insist a lot of people’s right to self-expression, but restricting some manners of training AI doesn’t mean the people can’t express themselves. Not only they could still use any other tool, they could simply get permission from the creators or use Public Domain works to train.
Why is it having to get permission for using works in AI training considered such a violation of people’s rights? Just because older laws were written without consideration for the way AI functions (obviously)?
We also restrict the use of cameras in certain ways and yet photography is a flourishing medium. In a way one could call a camera an analysis tool too, but I don’t think arguing this sort of technicality is productive.
Still, you don’t seem to consider that the artists driven out of the market by AI will have their capability of expression stifled, simply by not being able to focus on creating.
Because you are using those to argue around the situation of the artists whose work was used, and still you will not offer a single word about their situation. Instead you will call them “abusers” for trying to preserve their livelihoods. I did offer you arguments why the law is lacking, but I’m tired of arguing how human rights take precedent over tools, that comparing AI with human creativity is simplistic and that whatever may be the inner workings of AIs, that doesn’t change the material effects of their use. I’m pretty sure I had those arguments with you in particular already.
Which is why I want to get to the point: “What about the artists’ livelihoods?”
Any other explanation that doesn’t address this is lacking a crucial aspect. Considering how much AI had to rely on original works it’s strange that the source of those original works is not even given any consideration.
But back to this again:
See, this is the kind of talk that gets me incensed, and which makes your talk of “manipulative language” ironic and disingenuous. Are you really going to call the artist’s role “handing someone a flyer for lessons”? Not even the lesson proper, since their work is the reference material? There is no possible way such an analogy could be made in good faith, it reveals a profound disregard for the role of the artists in all this, so much for standing in the shoulders of giants. No surprise you want to call artists seeking to protect themselves “abusers” too. It doesn’t seem to me like the words of someone honestly interested in candid, open-minded and respectful discussion.
You’re ignoring and misrepresenting what I said again so you can just repeat yourself. I’ve already covered all of this. If I explain it for a third time you’ll just do this again.
Even though I said I was only interested on your take about a single particular point, you completely disregarded it. Even though I said I had no interest in any other aspect, I responded to multiple of your arguments.
At this point you are saying “you’re ignoring and misrepresenting what I said” as a way to disregard what I said and pretend there are no unadressed aspects. It’s just not true. Ironically, you’re saying that to ignore and misrepresent my words.
To be fair, you made it more than clear that trying to discuss the matter with you is wasted effort.
Why don’t you tell me what this single particular point is instead of writing all of this?
Oh sorry, I thought you wanted me to take what you said into consideration. Is it still remotely unclear?
Pretty sure you are just playing coy now, but I am this stubborn.
Ahem.
How do you suggest that traditional artists ought to be supported in light of the likely possibility that AI trained on their works might make their careers financially unviable?
Yeah, I definitely covered this, The EFF article covered it too.
No, absolutely not. As expected, you are just bulshitting me.
Just to be thorough, this is how:
“Just evolve with the tech and use AI too” is a clueless response considering that artistic industries are already highly saturated. There won’t even be enough positions for all the AI artists, which they will inevitably find out. It’s also weirdly elitist, thinking of AI art as superior to any other form, the only one worthy still dedicating yourself too, an attitude that is already conceited when it happens between traditional and digital artists.
“It’s just like the industrial revolution” not only is not a solution, rather it is a reference to time in history that, though romanticized, was very troubled. As it was, going from working artisanal crafts to getting their arms chewed by machinery didn’t turn out great for the early industrial workers, and it might not ever have if not for people fighting for their rights. Worse than that, back then industries eventually freed people from working on fields to working on offices. Now AI can take them out of the offices, but to where? No, they won’t all be AI engineers. How does that benefit the artist that is “freed” into having to work in a sweatshop?
Another common response that is present in neither your comments nor the article is “Universal Basic Income will solve this” and even if I try to be fully open to the possibility, I have to point out that AI is here today, but UBI is only tested every couple years, people tell how great it is and then we don’t hear anything about widespread implementation. This likely won’t happen without fierce popular pressure.
So, the question of the artists’ material conditions is not even remotely addressed.
I don’t know what this is.