Yeah, he won through good old misinformation, propaganda, and blatant lies because his opposition can’t keep the successful message of hope and change going to engage apathetic voters like Obama did and would instead rather pal around with Liz Cheney and Netanyahu to try and peel away MAGA voters.
While voter suppression and Republican election meddling is a real issue, our country sucking is the real underlying problem. We couldn’t even do a fucking thing about the insurrection four years ago.
Yup. They had a hook with Walz and the ‘weird’ talking points. That seemed to really resonate with the Republicans and made them go out of their way to highlight out weird they were.
Then they pivoted to try and win Republicans. And… they died.
‘Weird’ probably wouldn’t have won them the election or anything, but it was working. It could have been paired with good, short talking points about helping people, and Walz is a good enough, and genuine enough (or at least appears to be so) guy to really sell those talking points in a way that didn’t feel pandering or cynical.
But they really wanted that right-wing vote. It’s like right-wingers telling the Democrats that they’ll never vote for them just makes the Dems want to win them over that much more.
She could have said “medicare for all” once, instead of turning her back on the progressive left and she would have won.
She could have said, “Gazan’s are human beings, and its important that all US allies receiving aid are in compliance with the Leahy law…” instead of turning her back on the anti-war left and Muslims and Arabs, and she would have won.
She could have said “The efforts of 4 years of recovering from the pandemic were hard, but clearly we need to do better for US taxpayers who are still feeling economic hardship”, instead of spitting in the face of Americans by telling us the economy is great, when those Americans are having to put groceries back on the shelves because they simply can’t afford them.
The campaign was a disaster. Harris was a turd in a punch bowl of a candidate and with even some basic, basic strategy she could have steered through the wickets. It was actually an easy election to win. At the turn of the tide Trump was almost as unpopular as Biden. She blew it at every possible turn.
Lessons learned for the electorate: STOP FUCKING LISTENING TO MSNBC, CNN, NPR, ALL OF THEM!
I think you are touching on some real issues, BUT the Harris campaign never said that the economy was doing great. They very deliberately avoided that message (though Biden was very different).
It’s partly the way that non-Trump campaigns are run. They hire a ton of pollsters/consultants that do focus groups to find out voters points of view. They never consider the scenario in which a good candidate can change the worldview of the voters. So it sounds like the candidate never had an original thought in the world, when voters actually want a leader.
Yeah I think that we have been subjected to such abnormal politics for so many years now, that people either forget, or weren’t alive to remember, that none of this is normal, and campaigns used to be very different.
If anyone couldn’t see how Trump would be worse than Harris, that is honestly their fault. And now we are seeing the proof of that. It wasn’t a hypothetical, we already experienced Trump once, and we’re being proven right about him again. This isn’t a failing of the DNC to inform people of this, they screamed it at the top of their lungs. They said it during the debates. I was jazzed to vote Harris and keep that asshole away from office. But to enough people, things like that didn’t matter and they voted against their best interests, and now things are going to get substantially worse than if they voted Harris.
If anyone couldn’t remember what life was like 4 years ago during the pandemic (and throughout Trump’s first presidency), that’s on them. I honestly can’t care about people’s issues with the DNC when we’re faced with an entirely worse option like Trump. The time for fighting to reform the DNC is during midterms where grassroots candidates can gain traction without threat of us losing it all. Allowing a much smaller volume of complaints about the DNC to take precedent over the tremendous evil Trump presents is a failing of the voters and is why we need the department of education more than ever. This is our brexit.
Building back our institutions after this is going to be much more difficult than it is tearing them down. If Democrats win the next election, I wonder if they’re going to be blamed for not fixing things fast enough after their predecessor… Like, oh I dunno… The economy?
So many fucking people here desperate to absolve themselves of their idiotic decision to vote for Trump, a third party, or not at all. They desperately want to believe that Democrats would be just as bad, and that it’s the DNC’s fault that they chose to ignore the dozens of people who explained to them exactly why they were making a bad choice.
Hey, guess what: at least some of us folks who STFU during the campaign and voted for Harris, like good little Democrats, are capable of being honest about how they fucked up after the fact.
They said it during the debates. I was jazzed to vote Harris and keep that asshole away from office. But to enough people, things like that didn’t matter and they voted against their best interests, and now things are going to get substantially worse than if they voted Harris.
I was excited up to and including the debate. Then everything she did after killed that excitement and I ended up voting for her and Walz only to vote against Trunp. Not because I wanted her in office, and I can see why people stopped caring.
Trump was not more appealing than Harris at any time frame during this election cycle, and I don’t understand why people stopped caring, he’s the same person or worse compared to his last presidency. But they’re gonna care now, let me tell you. My only hope is that they mentally link the hurt Trump is going to bring with their lack of care during this past election, and learn from their mistake.
My only hope is that they mentally link the hurt Trump is going to bring with their lack of care during this past election, and learn from their mistake.
I wouldn’t put money on it. A lot of people voted for two terms of gwb and then after the economy was in complete fucking shambles voted for Obama and expected everything to be fixed overnight.
Voters in this country are fickle, uneducated, uninformed clowns that continually make shitty decisions and don’t learn from them.
It isn’t about Trump being more appealing. It is about being motivated to show up to vote. Harris killed that motivation, which is why voters for Dems turnout was so low.
You don’t understand it because you are focused on her opponent, as was I. But Dems succeed when turnout is higher, and apparently stopping fascism by continuing the same mediocre Dem policies isn’t enough motivation.
A better version of Social Security could exist instead of propping up the stock market with IRAs that are great for the middle class and suck for the poor is why IRAs are mediocre.
Dems barely make efforts on infrastructure. Yeah, biggest plin blah bkllah blah is still miles behind where it needs to be. Mediocre.
They failed to get single payer healthcare like first world countries because they wanted to keep the stupid filibuster that the Republicans will most likely ditch now that they have all three branches.
Dems still give handjobs to the police.
Not to mention Dems are also pretty shitty when it comes to international politics. They don’t start wars I guess, so there’s that.
Yeah, he won through good old misinformation, propaganda, and blatant lies
You forgot voter suppression and gerrymandering. There is an old saying that in amerika, the politicians pick their voters… which is literally the opposite of democracy.
While voter suppression and Republican election meddling is a real issue, our country sucking is the real underlying problem. We couldn’t even do a fucking thing about the insurrection four years ago.
Gerrymandering only affects the house race and some state level races, not the presidential race (except potentially the Nebraska and Maine electors but that wasn’t relevant in this election).
Suppression I can give you, gerrymandering doesn’t have a play in the federal election… and as shitty as the electoral college is, we can blame 2016 on it, but not 2024 (due to the popular vote).
Yeah, he won through good old misinformation, propaganda, and blatant lies because his opposition can’t keep the successful message of hope and change going to engage apathetic voters like Obama did and would instead rather pal around with Liz Cheney and Netanyahu to try and peel away MAGA voters.
The thing is, people on the left tend to actually care about ethics, so if Democrats started doing the dirty shit that Republicans do, they would get voted out of office and held accountable.
It is an insurmountable hurdle. As much as I want to win, I don’t want the type of person that is willing to do the shit that Republicans do, in order to do so. I would no longer consider it a win then.
For me, I just wanna know the % of people who voted for him that weren’t swayed by misinformation but actually want all of what’s about to come. Those are the real people to worry about. I can get 1%, but what if it’s more like 10%…
I think a fair number of people voted for him because they thought higher tariffs and fewer immigrants would increase blue collar wages. Which is not necessarily wrong, but it ignores a lot of additional potentially catastrophic effects on the economy.
Yeah, he won through good old misinformation, propaganda, and blatant lies because his opposition can’t keep the successful message of hope and change going to engage apathetic voters like Obama did and would instead rather pal around with Liz Cheney and Netanyahu to try and peel away MAGA voters.
While voter suppression and Republican election meddling is a real issue, our country sucking is the real underlying problem. We couldn’t even do a fucking thing about the insurrection four years ago.
Yup. They had a hook with Walz and the ‘weird’ talking points. That seemed to really resonate with the Republicans and made them go out of their way to highlight out weird they were.
Then they pivoted to try and win Republicans. And… they died.
‘Weird’ probably wouldn’t have won them the election or anything, but it was working. It could have been paired with good, short talking points about helping people, and Walz is a good enough, and genuine enough (or at least appears to be so) guy to really sell those talking points in a way that didn’t feel pandering or cynical.
But they really wanted that right-wing vote. It’s like right-wingers telling the Democrats that they’ll never vote for them just makes the Dems want to win them over that much more.
It’s wild.
She could have said “medicare for all” once, instead of turning her back on the progressive left and she would have won.
She could have said, “Gazan’s are human beings, and its important that all US allies receiving aid are in compliance with the Leahy law…” instead of turning her back on the anti-war left and Muslims and Arabs, and she would have won.
She could have said “The efforts of 4 years of recovering from the pandemic were hard, but clearly we need to do better for US taxpayers who are still feeling economic hardship”, instead of spitting in the face of Americans by telling us the economy is great, when those Americans are having to put groceries back on the shelves because they simply can’t afford them.
The campaign was a disaster. Harris was a turd in a punch bowl of a candidate and with even some basic, basic strategy she could have steered through the wickets. It was actually an easy election to win. At the turn of the tide Trump was almost as unpopular as Biden. She blew it at every possible turn.
Lessons learned for the electorate: STOP FUCKING LISTENING TO MSNBC, CNN, NPR, ALL OF THEM!
But… but… but… Have you seen the stock market? The line’s going up! Economy’s fine!!1!
And now with Trump back in there, it will become the only metric once again.
I think you are touching on some real issues, BUT the Harris campaign never said that the economy was doing great. They very deliberately avoided that message (though Biden was very different).
So did they repudiate Biden when he did that? If not, that’s tantamount to agreeing with him.
And the voters knew it.
It’s partly the way that non-Trump campaigns are run. They hire a ton of pollsters/consultants that do focus groups to find out voters points of view. They never consider the scenario in which a good candidate can change the worldview of the voters. So it sounds like the candidate never had an original thought in the world, when voters actually want a leader.
Yeah I think that we have been subjected to such abnormal politics for so many years now, that people either forget, or weren’t alive to remember, that none of this is normal, and campaigns used to be very different.
If anyone couldn’t see how Trump would be worse than Harris, that is honestly their fault. And now we are seeing the proof of that. It wasn’t a hypothetical, we already experienced Trump once, and we’re being proven right about him again. This isn’t a failing of the DNC to inform people of this, they screamed it at the top of their lungs. They said it during the debates. I was jazzed to vote Harris and keep that asshole away from office. But to enough people, things like that didn’t matter and they voted against their best interests, and now things are going to get substantially worse than if they voted Harris.
If anyone couldn’t remember what life was like 4 years ago during the pandemic (and throughout Trump’s first presidency), that’s on them. I honestly can’t care about people’s issues with the DNC when we’re faced with an entirely worse option like Trump. The time for fighting to reform the DNC is during midterms where grassroots candidates can gain traction without threat of us losing it all. Allowing a much smaller volume of complaints about the DNC to take precedent over the tremendous evil Trump presents is a failing of the voters and is why we need the department of education more than ever. This is our brexit.
Building back our institutions after this is going to be much more difficult than it is tearing them down. If Democrats win the next election, I wonder if they’re going to be blamed for not fixing things fast enough after their predecessor… Like, oh I dunno… The economy?
https://www.epi.org/blog/the-trump-administration-was-ruining-the-pre-covid-19-19-economy-too-just-more-slowly/
So many fucking people here desperate to absolve themselves of their idiotic decision to vote for Trump, a third party, or not at all. They desperately want to believe that Democrats would be just as bad, and that it’s the DNC’s fault that they chose to ignore the dozens of people who explained to them exactly why they were making a bad choice.
Anything to avoid taking responsibility.
Just before the election I was still coming across people absolutely incensed that Biden hadn’t fixed the college loan issue yet.
The fact that it kept getting blocked by Trump judges was completely fucking lost on them. OK cool… Now he gets to appoint more. That should help /s
Hey, guess what: at least some of us folks who STFU during the campaign and voted for Harris, like good little Democrats, are capable of being honest about how they fucked up after the fact.
Why aren’t you?
I was excited up to and including the debate. Then everything she did after killed that excitement and I ended up voting for her and Walz only to vote against Trunp. Not because I wanted her in office, and I can see why people stopped caring.
Trump was not more appealing than Harris at any time frame during this election cycle, and I don’t understand why people stopped caring, he’s the same person or worse compared to his last presidency. But they’re gonna care now, let me tell you. My only hope is that they mentally link the hurt Trump is going to bring with their lack of care during this past election, and learn from their mistake.
I wouldn’t put money on it. A lot of people voted for two terms of gwb and then after the economy was in complete fucking shambles voted for Obama and expected everything to be fixed overnight.
Voters in this country are fickle, uneducated, uninformed clowns that continually make shitty decisions and don’t learn from them.
It isn’t about Trump being more appealing. It is about being motivated to show up to vote. Harris killed that motivation, which is why voters for Dems turnout was so low.
You don’t understand it because you are focused on her opponent, as was I. But Dems succeed when turnout is higher, and apparently stopping fascism by continuing the same mediocre Dem policies isn’t enough motivation.
I’ll take great Democratic policies that Trump will sadly now take credit for (IRA, chips, infrastructure, to name a few) over Trump any day.
A better version of Social Security could exist instead of propping up the stock market with IRAs that are great for the middle class and suck for the poor is why IRAs are mediocre.
Dems barely make efforts on infrastructure. Yeah, biggest plin blah bkllah blah is still miles behind where it needs to be. Mediocre.
They failed to get single payer healthcare like first world countries because they wanted to keep the stupid filibuster that the Republicans will most likely ditch now that they have all three branches.
Dems still give handjobs to the police.
Not to mention Dems are also pretty shitty when it comes to international politics. They don’t start wars I guess, so there’s that.
None of this makes them worse than Trump.
When did I ever say they were?
You forgot voter suppression and gerrymandering. There is an old saying that in amerika, the politicians pick their voters… which is literally the opposite of democracy.
No I didn’t forget, you just stopped reading.
Gerrymandering only affects the house race and some state level races, not the presidential race (except potentially the Nebraska and Maine electors but that wasn’t relevant in this election).
Suppression I can give you, gerrymandering doesn’t have a play in the federal election… and as shitty as the electoral college is, we can blame 2016 on it, but not 2024 (due to the popular vote).
The thing is, people on the left tend to actually care about ethics, so if Democrats started doing the dirty shit that Republicans do, they would get voted out of office and held accountable.
It is an insurmountable hurdle. As much as I want to win, I don’t want the type of person that is willing to do the shit that Republicans do, in order to do so. I would no longer consider it a win then.
Al Franken comes to mind. Made some inappropriate jokes, posed for a rude picture. Boom, career over.
For me, I just wanna know the % of people who voted for him that weren’t swayed by misinformation but actually want all of what’s about to come. Those are the real people to worry about. I can get 1%, but what if it’s more like 10%…
I think a fair number of people voted for him because they thought higher tariffs and fewer immigrants would increase blue collar wages. Which is not necessarily wrong, but it ignores a lot of additional potentially catastrophic effects on the economy.