Couple months ago I met a woman who works at a dispensary I visit about once a week. We hit it off really well. Despite trying to just keep it casual sex, and that only, I ended up developing some feelings for her. She confessed the same to me. I even introduced her to my teenaged daughter, for fucks sake.

I ran into her this evening at a gas station, with another guy, who turns out to be her husband. They’ve been married five years, and have two children together, ages 4 and 2. Finding out they have kids just made me feel disgusting.

So, I told him. He didnt believe me until I described a tattoo in a somewhat intimate place on her body. I had no fucking clue she was married. I think I ruined someone’s marriage. Or at least took part in ruining one.

I feel guilty. I am sorry for what I participated in. Am I a bad person?

      • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        21·
        2 months ago

        Talking about this in terms of social contract theory is really sidestepping the morality of the issue. Would you say that her lying entitles OP to punch her in the face? Surely not, two wrongs don’t make a right, punitive justice is bad, etc. What OP should do is investigate the issue with her not because she “gets to” tell her side or has a right to, but because he doesn’t know what the consequences of telling the husband would be. For all he knows, the husband is abusive and would beat her for this transgression, transgression though it is. The most likely outcome is, of course, that the husband is not abusive, but the most likely outcome of a round of Russian roulette is that you go unharmed. In either case, there is a real risk that is severe enough that it’s worth checking, even if it’s substantially less likely.

          • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
            102·
            2 months ago

            That only makes sense if you completely discount the husband as a moral patient. While I’m arguing that he’s been slightly over-emphasized, I am by no means discounting him and in most possible scenarios believe he should be informed. If he has no history known to his wife of probably 4+ years of being an abuser to her or others as far as she knows, it’s pretty unlikely that he is. Making the decision to not tell him anyway on the very, very unlikely chance that he, as a historically normal dude, snaps and blows her head off with a shotgun, is completely discounting the guaranteed outcome of him being wronged by being left in the dark about this.

  • imogen_underscore [it/its, she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
    575·
    2 months ago

    the chorus of he/hims in this thread positively relishing the idea of this woman getting punished by her husband for her actions and not even stopping to think about the possible violent repercussions of OPs actions is honestly disturbing. people cheat for all variety of reasons. many of them, especially for women, are justified. hate when this site shows its reddit-logo roots so plainly.

    • Kuori [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
      36·
      2 months ago

      I’d be so afraid of the guy getting mad at me and getting physical

      thankfully that burden will now be borne entirely by his wife.

      …kinda shocked a woman doesn’t see how bad this is

      • GaveUp [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
        10·
        2 months ago

        I had assumed that if he didn’t get mad enough to beat her right there and then after hearing the news he wouldn’t get any more mad and beat her later

        Now that I actually think about it yea, this is a completely wrong assumption

        I don’t know how cheaters and physical abusers think lol

        • SadArtemis [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
          20·
          2 months ago

          Many totally messed up/dysfunctional people know how to keep a good face on for the public, and/or even have a particular preoccupation with doing so. My family, growing up as a kid, definitely was one such example- and eventually facades tend to break, but it can take years. Hopefully this isn’t one such case, but you never know.

    • ComradeMonotreme [she/her, he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      5·
      2 months ago

      My friends call me a loser

      'Cause I’m still hanging around

      I’ve heard so many rumors

      That I’m just a girl that you bang on your couch

      I thought you thought of me better

      Someone you couldn’t lose

      You said, “We’re not together”

      So now when we kiss, I have anger issues

      • SadArtemis [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
        38·
        2 months ago

        IMO- something I learnt from others (as I used to be pissed if someone tried to lie to me)- not all lies are done with malice. Her lies hurt the husband, not OP.

        They’re not responsible for keeping the secrets, sure. But we also don’t know her circumstances (clearly OP didn’t either, if they only found out she was married now). You can feel vindicated that the “cheater/liar got punished,” or whatever, but I imagine you’d feel different if OP posts in the future saying next time they see her she has a black eye (or it’s in the news she was killed or something), now wouldn’t you?

        Personally I’d have confronted her about it and asked first. And personally- coming from a seriously fucked up family upbringing myself- not all marriages, “even with kids” (sometimes especially with kids) should exist, some are a curse on everyone involved. I’d have thought most people nowadays can understand that on some level, in such spaces in particular.

        • bumpusoot [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
          26·
          2 months ago

          I do agree with this general sentiment, I’ve been in a cursed, abusive relationship and cheated on them (though not to the point of sex) because at the time I was being quite explicitly threatened and coerced into staying in that relationship. If I had been found out, it would not have looked pretty; OTOH cheating like that was a major step in giving me the confidence to leave.

          I have no idea what the woman’s circumstances were, but I agree they could’ve been very complicated and not as black/white as it seems.

          At the same time, I also don’t think it’s fair to claim her lies didn’t hurt the OP, and I don’t think OP is a bad person. I wouldn’t have blamed the other person if it had happened in my circumstances. I can 100% understand why a person might cheat (obviously, as I’ve done it), but if you betray a person’s trust, especially the one who actually hasn’t wronged you at all, then it’s not unfair or unreasonable for them to react negatively, nor to assume the other person should find out too.

          Personally, I’d do the same as you. But it is an understandably murky moral sea, and I’m not sure any answers are 100% right. Not confronting it there and then could mean OP just gets lied to more.

          • SadArtemis [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
            19·
            2 months ago

            Good point, in regards to that her lies did hurt OP (unintentional as that may have been). FWIW I didn’t think OP is a bad person, it was a difficult situation and in the heat of the moment, I can’t claim that I would have necessarily acted differently (hell, I’d say I genuinely used to be a bad, or overly spiteful/vengeful/malicious person about such things).

            My comment wasn’t written as, or intended as a judgement of OP’s character (which wouldn’t be defined by just one thing, hell, “good” people can do “bad” things), that said. I just wanted to bring up what everyone else here seemed to have not considered- what I’d like to think I’d do, if I approached things from a calm and collected manner, and the insights that I’ve had shared with me from others (not always taking lies personally definitely wasn’t something I learnt myself).

            There’s all sorts of reasons why someone could cheat, or even (highly circumstantial and uncommon) reasons why someone should cheat. And seeing all the comments moralizing about always outing or condemning cheaters also just put a bad taste in my mouth (as someone who’s never cheated, myself- though coming from the childhood I did, I can’t claim possessiveness/exclusivity matters in the slightest to me).

            • bumpusoot [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
              13·
              2 months ago

              For sure. I agree with everything you’ve said here, and fully appreciate you bringing up those points. Cheating comes with a context and complex circumstances that don’t make things so clear cut.

        • jack [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
          11·
          2 months ago

          And personally- coming from a seriously fucked up family upbringing myself- not all marriages, “even with kids” (sometimes especially with kids) should exist, some are a curse on everyone involved. I’d have thought most people nowadays can understand that on some level, in such spaces in particular.

          In my family’s fucked up marriages, cheating is almost always the violation that sends the whole thing spinning - no abuse needed. My parents, grandparents, aunt and uncle, in-law grandparents were all destroyed by one side choosing to cheat.

          • SadArtemis [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
            8·
            2 months ago

            Neither of my parents cheated, as far as I know (and if they had, good chances are I’d have known). They just tortured each other (and the kids) for a decade, while spiraling deeper into certain Catholic mindsets/circles and quiverfull-adjacent nonsense. And then they tortured each other for the better part of yet another decade (taking several years to properly divorce despite being separated, having a long, drawn-out divorce which only further ruined their already long-since ruined lives).

            Not invalidating your own experiences here, but it’s a big world out there, and there’s probably just as many out there with experiences like mine as with yours. As a kid my parents’ separation (nasty and destructive as it was) was still a relief, and when it was finalized with a divorce it was all the better. Some things (or many) are simply cursed from the onset.

      • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        161·
        2 months ago

        Assuming OP was right, I’d frame it more as his having an obligation to the husband as a human being making the choice correct rather than as a lack of obligation to the wife making the choice indifferent. We should be trying to make the world better, not carefully demarcating the bounds of social contracts so we can find out exactly where we’re allowed to do as much harm as we feel like.

        But I also think SadArtemis is right that OP, to put it charitably, got ahead of himself

    • booty [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      301·
      2 months ago

      christian moralism is when you think people shouldn’t be unknowingly stuck in a relationship with someone who has no respect for them

      • LigOleTiberal [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        53·
        2 months ago

        you could’ve also been cheating that entire time too. donny blame someone else’s actions for your own decisions in life. you are responsible for yourself and your decisions when it comes to inter-personal relationships, full stop.

        • Omegamint [comrade/them, doe/deer]@hexbear.netEnglish
          43·
          2 months ago

          You seem to have issues with the “ethical” part of non-monagamy. Cheating on your partner (aka, sleeping with other people without their consent), is not ethical. The ethical thing to do is to ask for that consent, and to break it off if you cant get it and you need to be with/sleep with other people.

          Something tells me I shouldn’t need to explain this

        • lil_tank [any, he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          21·
          2 months ago

          jesse-wtf

          Edit : Okay I get it youre against the monogamous patriarchal structure of marriage. I’m too actually, but as long as you get into a relationship with a partner that promises exclusivity it’s absolutely unfair to live a better life and prevent them to do so too. That’s the actual problem, instead of opening the relationship honestly and both live a better life outside the bonds of marriage you keep the other unable to do so and that’s wrong.

      • SadArtemis [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
        15·
        2 months ago

        Obviously,you should make sure the person you’re outing wouldn’t be put in danger by this first,but it’s definitely not something to be excused

        I mean, if someone were to be put in danger by being exposed- wouldn’t that be a pretty damn good excuse?

        • LigOleTiberal [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          52·
          2 months ago

          there’s any number of reasons people “cheat” and main one is that the very idea of monogamy and cheating stands from patriarchal monotheism and the fact that through ask of human history large numbers of adults have “cheated” or lived in non-monogamous societies shows that the idea that it is “BAD” to cheat it moralistic and idiotic.

          • jack [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
            34·
            2 months ago

            Monogamy long predates patriarchal monotheism. Jews didn’t invent marriage. And while there have always been cultures without strict monogamy, there have also always been cultures with strict monogamy - and often these can exist in the same culture. How that makes the voluntary choice to be monogamous universally bad and therefore cheating is universally good I don’t know.

          • Infamousblt [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
            241·
            2 months ago

            Non ethical non monogamy is no different from patriarchal monogamy. Get outta here with your bad takes that because toxic monogamy exists it’s okay to be a lying sack of shit to your partners. Non monogamy is great but it has to be done ethically and consensually or it’s just a different style of bad

          • Adlach@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
            14·
            2 months ago

            Pretty sure my wife would be mad at me if I cheated on her. Is she an agent of the patriarchy?

          • RomCom1989 [he/him, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
            6·
            2 months ago

            I agree,but under the current monogamous paradigm, people are going to feel hurt and betrayed by this sort of behavior

            So,even considering this,it would have been reasonable to expect that she would have told him beforehand

            Until a more enlightened age arrives,where more types of human connection other than monogamy will be commonplace, we can assume most people will have been socially conditioned to expect an exclusive arrangement and may not wish to take part in less conventional types of relationships and then act accordingly