I’ve heard the legends of having to drive to literally everywhere (e.g. drive thru banks), but I have no clue how far apart things are.
I live in suburban London where you can get to a big supermarket in 10 minutes of walking, a train station in 20 minutes and convenience stores are everywhere. You can get anywhere with bus and train in a few hours.
Can someone help a clueless British lemmyposter know how far things are in the US?
EDIT
Here are my walking distances:
- To the nearest convenience store: 250m
- To the nearest chain supermarket: 350m
- To the bus stop: 310m
- To the nearest park: 400m
- To the nearest big supermarket: 1.3km
- To the nearest library: 1.2km
- To the nearest train station: 1km
Straight-line distance to Big Ben: 16km
To the nearest convenience store: 2.3mi / 3.7 km
To the nearest chain supermarket: 9mi / 14km (not actually a chain store, it’s a small grocery in a small rural town)
To the bus stop: lol, I don’t think any of the cities near me bother with that, nor would they be useful to me
To the nearest park: 5mi / 8km (lake, about a 5 minute drive)
To the nearest big supermarket: 14mi / 22km
To the nearest library: 9mi / 14km
To the nearest train station: 51mi / 82km (and this station doesn’t service any location I couldn’t get to faster than driving, even across country. Because AMTRAK is shit. I know because I’ve done it before)
This is in central CA, not far at all from the Capitol, Sacramento. For being the 5th biggest economy in the world our capitol is pathetic
At my parents’ place, it’s about 9 miles (~14km) to the nearest gas station/convenience store, which has super limited hours, or roughly a 15 minute drive. It’s about 14 miles (~23km) to the nearest grocery store, or about a 20 minute drive.
I live in the suburbs of a major city, so the nearest stores from me are around a mile (1.6km) away. The nearest big supermarket is like 2 miles (3.2km) away.
I live in suburban Kansas City and these are the distances to the things you mentioned -
- Convenience store - 1.2 miles (1.9km)
- Chain supermarket - 2.8 miles (4.5km)
- Bus stop - 1.2 miles (1.9km)
- Park - .4 miles (650m)
- Big supermarket - 5.5 miles (8.8km)
- Library - 1.9 miles (3km)
- Train station - 7.4 miles (11km) (trains are not really a viable transport option here)
- Airport - 29.1 miles (46.8km)
The closest publicly accessible business to me is a fast food restaurant about a mile away.
Basically if I need anything, it’s a 30 minute walk one way to get there. It just isn’t really viable as a regular thing to spend an hour walking to get to/from a convenience store, or 2 hours for a grocery store. Instead, I spend 10-20 minutes in my car for those errands, and save the extra time for walking my dog (since he couldn’t go into any of the places mentioned above either, so his walks would have to be in addition anyway.)
I’ll just use the same criteria you gave as an example.
- To the nearest convenience store: 1.5mi (2.6km)
- To the nearest chain supermarket: 1.8mi (2.9km)
- To the bus stop: 0.5mi (800m)
- To the nearest park: 0.3mi (480m) - I’m lucky to have several parks in my neighborhood
- To the nearest big supermarket: 2.1mi (3.4km)
- To the nearest library: 2.2mi (3.5km)
- To the nearest train station: 5.1mi (8.2km)
Edit: I live in a mid-size city (300k) on the east coast.
nearly 3km to convenience store or supermarket… in a city? i get the other comments with similar numbers but they said they’re in the middle of nowhere, in the suburbs and such.
also i live in such a big city that 300k feels like a small neighborhood.
To be fair, you live in a large city. Cities here in the states also have many points of interest close by. In the suburbs, places are more spread out, same as they would be in the UK. It’s all about location.
I live in a suburb in the U.S.
- To the nearest convenience store: 322m
- To the nearest chain supermarket: 2.4km
- To the bus stop: 2.6km
- To the nearest park: 5.5km
- To the nearest big supermarket: 6.1km
- To the nearest library: 7.7km
- To the nearest train station: N/A
Notes:
- The “convenience store” in my example is a gas station, technically you can buy lottery tickets, candy, cigarettes, beer, and a few things like that - but very limited inventory, it’s mostly for people buying gas. It’s also very unusual to have a gas station like this located basically in a suburban area, most places you would have to go much further to find one.
- no sidewalks or safe passage, you walk on a dangerous road with ditches on either side to get to the convenience store.
- the only public transit is a bus, it is used only by poor people, and it doesn’t cover the west half of the city (for example I was unable to use public transit to go to school)
I have run to the park before despite being far away, but I think most people would (rightfully) think I was suicidal for doing so. A lot of the way to the park requires walking on dangerous streets where people drive fast around blind curves and where there is little to no shoulders to squeeze by if there are cars, most of the way has no sidewalks, and I have to cross busy roads where drivers are going 80+kmh.
Owning a car here is considered a part of being an adult, people without a car are seen as childish or immature, and usually suspected of being drunks who have lost their license due to DUIs or felons who cannot have a driving license and aren’t allowed to leave the state. It is assumed everyone drives everywhere, alternatives are unthinkable to most people here.
Those distances would be perfect for a bicycle if you had save bicycle lanes
I can probably offer some insight, as my in-laws live in Wimbledon, some of my family live both near and far from DC/Baltimore, and I live in the Netherlands.
My London experience is on par to yours. Everything is walking distance and the things that aren’t are accessible by public transit fairly easily.
The Netherlands imo is even better planned and connected than the UK. The convenience store is around the corner from my townhouse. Two large chain supermarkets are just a 3 or 7 minute walk depending on which is preferred (the 7-min one is pricier but better selection) and there are more a few more minutes walking. The bus stop is 3 min away, train is a 10 minute walk. Parks and bike lanes all around.
DC is also very walkable and similar to London. Bike lanes. Everything is accessible and public transit is pretty good. Lots of convenience stores, small grocers, and even some larger chains. A few metro lines even go far out to the suburbs. I like the building height limit, which makes the city feel more open. Rock Creek Park is massive and you feel like you’re in the forest.
Once you get to the suburbs there may be a convenience store a 10-20 minute walk away, or a grocer if you’re lucky, but generally this is when you’ll be needing a car, as public transit becomes scant. Many Americans are walking averse; my husband and I are the odd couple that parks at the back of the lot when visiting Costco instead of spending half an hour hoping to get a spot by the doors. Most stores will be in plazas or strip malls.
My father lives out in the country. He loves having acres and acres of no one around. His house is an island. There’s one 7-11 in his tiny village. He’s lucky it’s a 5 minute walk from his house. If I want to get groceries when visiting, the nearest store is 8 miles away (a leisurely 4 hour walk; 10 minute drive). Oftentimes there are no sidewalks; mostly long stretches of road with big shoulders. I don’t think there’s public transit there; I’ve never seen a bus. There are farms everywhere so parks need to be driven to, however, they are pretty big with lots of room for activities.
It’s likely not too different from comparing London to Dartmoor. Much of it depends on where you are (population density). Some areas have great public transit and access to services, others don’t.
Hard disagree on DC. The public transit is bad, the train only goes a few places, and the majority of the city is not easily walkable, only the touristy parts. I’d also call it a depressing shithole, but that borders on opinion.
Fair enough, not everyone will have the same experience. The busses can suck; at least the metro is tidy and runs well. My cousin in Georgetown doesn’t have a car, and he manages to travel to and access everything he needs, including going out to Potomac or Silver Spring. Going east/west is tricker, but on the flip side DC is rather small for a major city, and they’re building the purple line. Public bikes and scooters are also everywhere which is nice for visitors. Additional bike lanes and connectivity is needed for sure.
Compare to Baltimore, where they have the one metro line, which is broken half the time.
WMATA busses need serious work and there aren’t enough bike lanes for last mile connectivity, but by US standards it’s about as good as it gets outside of NYC.
The busses are the main differentiation between European and US cities in my experience. Only Seattle and SF get close to running a decent bus service.
Let’s start with infrastructure.
Buses/metro/any public transit, barriered or not, sparsely or rarely exist. Even painted bike paths/walking paths, these usually exist ONLY in dense or older urban areas. You have either 1-1.5m wide sidewalk elevated 10cm or nothing separating you on foot from car traffic.
So that 250m is often on the shoulder of car lanes.
Now let’s talk property liability. You are responsible for injuries others sustain while on your property unless you have clearly posted signage expressing they were not allowed on your property. Even then and at best you’ll have to disrupt 6mo of your life tied up in courts+fees. (No right to roam. You do get the “perk” of open manhunting season on trespassers)
So that shortcut through the neighborhood where your neighbor laid out gravel because they care about community? Nope, that’s cyclone fence or cinder block wall. That alley between flats? Gated off.
It’s not even scale that’s the problem. You ALWAYS have to go around the ENTIRE block. A 250m Crow flight can easily be and most often is 1+km by foot, and only ever with a curb as your protection from traffic. You can’t safely get to geographically nearby places without putting yourself in mortal danger.
Also note European road design limits traffic in residential areas where the US grid system means every road is a main road and wide enough to promote excessive speeding.
Source: anecdotal/American living in EU
I live in DFW, a large amalgamation of two cities and a bunch if suburban sprawl in Texas.
I live in a neighborhood that is considered extremely walkable, as I am directly across the street from a university and less than a mile from city hall.Here are my walking distances:
- To the nearest convenience store: 1.8km
- To the nearest chain supermarket: 4.3 km (They have a monopoly though, so unless you can afford whole foods, the closest good one is like 22.5 km)
- To the bus stop: Lol, we don’t have busses. A neighboring city does, so I guess 29 km?
- To the nearest park: Nearest park is 2.8km. Nearest public space is only 1.5km because I live right next to city hall.
- To the nearest big supermarket: 8.9 km to Walmart.
- To the nearest library: 1.5km, again, I live right next to city hall.
- To the nearest train station: 16km, unless you mean one for intercity travel. We don’t have one of those because Amtrak is slowly being killed.
Straight-line distance to Big Ben: we don’t have a Big Ben, but we killed JFK and that’s 34km away.
Bonus fun fact, I commute 42km each day. This is considered far by most people here, 32km would be much more reasonable.
To reiterate how bad public transit is, even in populated areas: I’m also in DFW. This is my daily commute…
It’s ~9.6km. Note that the bus/train option is entirely greyed out, because there is no public transit which runs from my house to my job. If I were to walk, the only option would be on the side of a highway. I would have cars passing me at ~70 MPH without even a curb for protection.
To walk to the nearest grocery store, it’s ~4km, with a large part of it along the shoulder of that same highway. Same with a major chain.
Nearest bus stop is ~6.9km, but that only takes me in a direction I wouldn’t need to go; There are no local bus or train stops that land me near where I work or live.
I’m in the Indianapolis area, and we do have public transit… though I don’t know why.
In the suburbs of a middle-sized city in Ohio, USA. So midwest, but a bit older, higher-density, and more northeastern suburban layout than, say, Iowa. Built up in the 1960s-70s. Almost all single-family suburban homes on large lots.
(these are walking distances, not straight lines)
- To the nearest convenience store: 1.6 km
- To the nearest chain supermarket: 4.2 km
- To the bus stop: 1.5 km
- To the nearest park: 226 meters
- To the nearest big supermarket: 2.1 km
- To the nearest library: 2.6 km
- To the nearest train station: Hahaha! (Ok, it’s actually 78 km, but it’s mostly worthless as a train station)
Straight-line distance to Big Ben: 6297 km
Depends.
If you live in a very rural area it can be more than an hour by car to some of these things, 50 miles or more, other items may not exist at all like public transportation. Inter-city public transportation is all but imposable for smaller locations, difficult and lengthy the greater the distance and size differential in locations.
I used to live in a metro area. Everything was within 10 minutes walk except medical care, but walking to the subway would get you to top tier medical facilities in about 15-20 minutes. Getting to nearby “bedroom” communities was also pretty easy thanks to a commuter rail.
I now live in a suburban area that has OK bus service but it’s not very convenient to where I live at all. Everything is within a 10 minute drive, and unfortunately a car is necessary due to the lack of sidewalks in many places. It does have light rail to a major metro area, about two hour’s ride, and then you can access the metro area major transportation network to all nearby areas and further away. Probably about as good as it gets in the US.
Nearest store of any kind - 1 mile
Full serve store - same
Library - .75 mile
Bus stop - 1.2 miles
Small park - .5 miles
Large park - 3 miles
Access to light rail - 4 miles
Knock off this “public transportation is only for big cities” propaganda bullshit. The US literally had a comprehensive rail network. The town of 1000 I used to live in had a train that connected to anywhere in the nation in the 1930s.
To piggy back off this comment, I’m surprised the streetcars in Kenosha, WI don’t get brought up much for what we could have:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcars_in_Kenosha,_Wisconsin
It began in June 2000. It was done by doing the municipal equivalent of looking for deals on Craigslist; they bought old cars from larger cities and did a little conversion to get the track gauge right.
Can every small town do this? As it stands, probably not. It depends on larger cities having hand-me-down trolleys, and there just aren’t enough cities doing that for it to work on a widespread basis. But I think it does show that there’s a path to doing this in North American small cities if larger cities can get their shit together.
I really don’t know what you’re on about. I stated what we have today. Period. My comment has nothing to do with “propaganda” or rail history in the US. Did you even reply to the right comment?
Did you read your comment?
Inter-city public transportation is all but imposable for smaller locations
You took that out of context.
That was intended to mean, as I said, in a modern context. As in you cannot get there via public transportation today. This conversation has nothing to do implementing transportation, this has to do with what we have and how accessible smaller towns are.
So were you looking to be angry or something?
Everything around me is a 30 minute drive… except the mailbox, that’s just a 5 minute walk.
Same. 30 mins to everything.
Because it’s 25 mins to get to town and 5 mins to get to the other side of town.
I live in Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA. My neighborhood isn’t the best for walkability – there are definitely better areas in this city in that respect.
To the nearest convenience store: 1.5km To the nearest chain supermarket: 1.9km To the bus stop: 140m To the nearest park: 480m To the nearest big supermarket: 5.8km To the nearest library: 1.9km To the nearest train station: 800m
Straight-line distance to Big Ben: 6450km
I live in a walkable neighborhood in Richmond, Virginia. I have grocery stores in walking distance but usually drive to nicer ones for big hauls. I drive to the gym. I could bike there but there’s no bike lanes and steep hills. Everything else on your list is just a few blocks away.
In a suburb of Boston, my distances would be very similar to OP, except the bus stop is much closer and I don’t have that nearby chain grocery.
But my brothers are all about 10h drive (my visit this summer was over 1,200 miles round trip) and my mom is 14h drive
