• oce 🐆
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    12
    arrow-down
    40
    ·
    6 months ago

    Even willingly targeting civilians?

      • oce 🐆
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        31
        ·
        6 months ago

        Including people who didn’t really decide on where to live, like their children?

          • oce 🐆
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            9
            arrow-down
            11
            ·
            6 months ago

            I think wanting to avoid innocent civilian deaths is a moral line that is valid for both sides.

            • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              5
              ·
              edit-2
              6 months ago

              While I agree with that, it doesn’t feel like your question to the other commenter carries quite the weight in this specific context as it might in others given that neither side has been clean about this, and it’s not the Palestinian side that has intentionally blown up a playground within the past week.

              I do generally think it’s hard to equate the two fairly in this context, given the power differential between the two forces and their relative capabilities to be discerning if they so chose.

              • o_d [he/him]@lemmygrad.ml
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                11
                ·
                6 months ago

                I apologize if I misunderstood you, but there is no both sides here. The united nations recognizes the right to armed struggle against occupation.

                UNGA Resolution 37/43 (1982) reaffirmed the “inalienable right” of the Palestinian people “and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination” to self-determination. It also reaffirmed the legitimacy of “the struggle of peoples for […] liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle.”

                https://www.cjpme.org/fs_236/

                It even mentions the Palestinian struggle explicitly.

        • idkmybffjoeysteel [he/him]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          38
          arrow-down
          7
          ·
          6 months ago

          Adults who were born in Israel, yes, children, no, but your handwringing is funny, since dead Israeli toddlers are purely hypothetical, and you clearly give no fucks about dead Palestinian babies.

          Stick your hand in a blender and turn it on.

          • oce 🐆
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            6
            arrow-down
            14
            ·
            6 months ago

            you clearly give no fucks about dead Palestinian babies.

            I do. Mentioning civilian victims on Israeli an side doesn’t mean I don’t care about civilian victims on Palestinian side, this point was simply already covered largely.

            Also please refrain from personal attacks and other violence threats.

              • oce 🐆
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                12
                ·
                6 months ago

                No, I am not defending the war crimes of Israeli army nor the ones of Hamas. Just read what I wrote, there’s no more to imagine.

                • Infamousblt [any]@hexbear.net
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  26
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  6 months ago

                  You’re pointing out the crimes of the victims rather than the oppressors. That’s defense of the oppressors no matter how many mental backflips you do to pretend it’s not

            • o_d [he/him]@lemmygrad.ml
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              32
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              6 months ago

              Killed by who?

              A separate report published in Haaretz noted that the Israeli military was “compelled to request an aerial strike” against its own facility inside the Erez Crossing to Gaza “in order to repulse the terrorists” who had seized control. That base was filled with Israeli Civil Administration officers and soldiers at the time.

              An Israeli woman named Yasmin Porat confirmed in an interview with Israel Radio that the military “undoubtedly” killed numerous Israeli noncombatants during gun battles with Hamas militants on October 7. “They eliminated everyone, including the hostages,” she stated, referring to Israeli special forces.

              While being held by the Hamas gunmen, Porat recalled, “They did not abuse us. We were treated very humanely… No one treated us violently.”

              She added, “The objective was to kidnap us to Gaza, not to murder us.”

              https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/27/israels-military-shelled-burning-tanks-helicopters/

              I’m aware that some of the hostages that were taken were children. All accounts suggest that they were treated well, for hostages anyway. Its important to recognize that the Zionist regime keeps thousands upon thousands of Palestinian hostages, many of which are children. The Zionists could have negotiated an exchange, ensuring the safe return of all Israeli hostages. Instead, they decided to bomb the living shit out of Gaza, pretty much ensuring their demise.

          • oce 🐆
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            6 months ago

            Because they were reborn there or moved by their parents.

            • D61 [any]@hexbear.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              7
              ·
              6 months ago

              Why would an Israeli family be living in the West Bank or Gaza? And who would be more likely to be killing their children, Israeli occupation forces or Palestinian resistance to the occupation forces?

    • D61 [any]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      28
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      6 months ago

      If a civilian comes at you with a weapon, trying to kill you, are they still a civilian?

      If a civilian stands in front of relief trucks, sending food/medicine/clothes/tents while the military destroys food/medicine/homes, are they still a civilian?

      If a civilian cheers every time one of their country’s soldiers shoots a random person or when a bomb in dropped on a hospital, or when missiles are fired at the places went to get away from the fighting, are they still a civilian?

      'Cause, from where I’m sitting, being okay with slaughtering people kinds makes it seem like they aren’t ‘innocent’ in this.

      • oce 🐆
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        6 months ago

        I don’t think this applies to the general understanding of innocent civilians indeed.

      • oce 🐆
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        13
        ·
        6 months ago

        I would also mention them if everyone here was not already doing that.

    • Duży Szef [he/him]@lemmygrad.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      28
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      6 months ago

      If a German occupied my home during 1940, I’m telling you he wouldn’t be a civilian to me. He’d be a complacent thief. A low life settler.

    • Amerikan Pharaoh@lemmygrad.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      23
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      6 months ago

      There are no civilians in Israel; every settler is a combatant by virtue (ha) of their theft.

      And before you start pearl-clutching and morally peacocking like I know you would if not for this addendum; no, I do not factor Israeli children into my calculus. It sucks for them that their parents decided to either become, or carry on the family tradition of being settler scum; but does Israel ever consider Palestinian children? No. They don’t. Israel calls Palestinian children Hamas when it suits them; ergo, I don’t consider Israeli children. At all.