- cross-posted to:
- shermanposting@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- shermanposting@lemmy.world
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I mean, the first president of the confederacy literally said it was about states rights to decide whether or not to have slavery. And from what I understand the confederacy was more centralized than the Union. So it wasn’t about “muh small govnment”. These dipshits just wanted to own other people.
Fun fact: the slavers who would form the Confederacy were the self-styled conservatives (but in actuality reactionaries, much like today’s crop) of the time. From Lincoln’s speech at Cooper Union:
But you say you are conservative—eminently conservative—while we are revolutionary, destructive, or something of the sort. What is conservatism? Is it not adherence to the old and tried, against the new and untried? We stick to, contend for, the identical old policy on the point in controversy which was adopted by “our fathers who framed the Government under which we live”; while you with one accord reject, and scout, and spit upon that old policy, and insist upon substituting something new. True, you disagree among yourselves as to what that substitute shall be. You are divided on new propositions and plans, but you are unanimous in rejecting and denouncing the old policy of the fathers. Some of you are for reviving the foreign slave trade; some for a Congressional Slave-Code for the Territories; some for Congress forbidding the Territories to prohibit Slavery within their limits; some for maintaining Slavery in the Territories through the judiciary; some for the “gur-reat pur-rinciple” that “if one man would enslave another, no third man should object”, fantastically called “Popular Sovereignty”; but never a man among you is in favor of federal prohibition of slavery in federal territories, according to the practice of “our fathers who framed the Government under which we live”. Not one of all your various plans can show a precedent or an advocate in the century within which our Government originated. Consider, then, whether your claim of conservatism for yourselves, and your charge of destructiveness against us, are based on the most clear and stable foundations.
Human action can be modified to some extent, but human nature cannot be changed. There is a judgment and a feeling against slavery in this nation, which cast at least a million and a half of votes. You cannot destroy that judgment and feeling—that sentiment—by breaking up the political organization which rallies around it. You can scarcely scatter and disperse an army which has been formed into order in the face of your heaviest fire; but if you could, how much would you gain by forcing the sentiment which created it out of the peaceful channel of the ballot-box, into some other channel?
If I wanna go read these documents, does anyone know what these documents might have been called? Would they be called like articles of secession for each state?
Edit: it looks like it might be ordinances of sucession, or ordinance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordinance_of_Secession?wprov=sfla1
I need to look at it more but I’m absurdly sleep deprived and have a limited attention span to begin with. I’d appreciate any thoughts or knowledge on the subject anyone might wish to share :)
Thank you! The south carolina one was an interesting read, and makes very union their motives for leaving the union
So is the second document is one of the supporting documents like mentioned in the first paragraph? It’s a shame there isn’t one for every state if I understand correctly, but still extremely helpful!
Edit: no, the south Carolina document is considered their declaration of secession, I’m unclear on whether every state has one…
The ordinances of secession are the legal instruments for secession - the actual formal bills - so while some are clear about the causes, some of them are just boilerplate “We out” kind of stuff. You can find other explanations from the seceding states, but the rest aren’t so neatly grouped together, unfortunately.
Gotcha, I think I’m following. For anyone curious, this website seems like a helpful resource
https://civildiscourse-historyblog.com/blog/2018/6/30/secession-documents-alabama
That’s the one for Alabama. The website seems to have all the related documents together for the different states that left the Union
So is the south Carolina document I read the “seperate document” alluded to in the Wikipedia page, or their ordinance of secession itself? If it’s their ordinance of secession, what’s the seperate document they published?
(If you don’t know the answers or don’t have the energy to try and explain everything to me that’s fine, we’re getting into the weeds lol)
The South Carolina link was a separate document - the Declaration of Immediate Causes.
https://web.archive.org/web/20040404171724/http://members.aol.com/jfepperson/ordnces.html
South Carolina’s ordinance of secession is pretty boilerplate
AN ORDINANCE to dissolve the union between the State of South Carolina and other States united with her under the compact entitled “The Constitution of the United States of America.”
We, the people of the State of South Carolina, in convention assembled, do declare and ordain, and it is hereby declared and ordained, That the ordinance adopted by us in convention on the twenty-third day of May, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, whereby the Constitution of the United States of America was ratified, and also all acts and parts of acts of the General Assembly of this State ratifying amendments of the said Constitution, are hereby repealed; and that the union now subsisting between South Carolina and other States, under the name of the “United States of America,” is hereby dissolved.
Done at Charleston the twentieth day of December, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty.
… while Virginia’s cites slavery specifically in its ordinance.
AN ORDINANCE to repeal the ratification of the Constitution of the United State of America by the State of Virginia, and to resume all the rights and powers granted under said Constitution.
The people of Virginia in their ratification of the Constitution of the United States of America, adopted by them in convention on the twenty-fifth day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, having declared that the powers granted under said Constitition were derived from the people of the United States and might be resumed whensoever the same should be perverted to their injury and oppression, and the Federal Government having perverted said powers not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern slave-holding States:
Now, therefore, we, the people of Virginia, do declare and ordain, That the ordinance adopted by the people of this State in convention on the twenty-fifth day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, whereby the Constitution of the United States of America was ratified, and all acts of the General Assembly of this State ratifying and adopting amendments to said Constitution, are hereby repealed and abrogated; that the union between the State of Virginia and the other States under the Constitution aforesaid is hereby dissolved, and that the State of Virginia is in the full possession and exercise of all the rights of sovereignty which belong and appertain to a free and independent State.
And they do further declare, That said Constitution of the United States of America is no longer binding on any of the citizens of this State.
This ordinance shall take effect and be an act of this day, when ratified by a majority of the voter of the people of this State cast at a poll to be taken thereon on the fourth Thursday in May next, in pursuance of a schedule hereafter to be enacted.
Adopted by the convention of Virginia April 17,1861.
Thank you so much for all the time and energy you put into helping me understand all the historical documents, I really appreciate it
I hope you have a lovely day today ❤️
Aw, thank you! I always enjoy being able to help out with what tidbits I know about the past!
Mississippi’s is called “A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union.”
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world.
Thank you, that’s super helpful!
It’s literally in the articles of secession that the confederacy states drafted
States Rights … to do what?
I think we should officially call this the Loser Cause Narrative.
