Campaigners have welcomed the move to outlaw the breed they argue is "a clear and present threat to public health", but concerns have been raised it may not be practical and lead to other kinds of dogs being prohibited.
You don’t need to train a pointer puppy to point. They do it from birth. You don’t need to train a sheep dog to herd. They do it from the moment they can walk. You don’t need to teach a pit bull to latch and shake. They also do that from birth. Training can mitigate the risk, but they’re still very dangerous dogs.
Literally every breed with a prey drive does the death shake. And they aren’t the only ones with locking jaws either. This is very much a problem of shitty people who like the reputation.
If that logic holds true than pure American pitbull terriers should actually be the safest dogs to own in regards to people. Pitbulls where bred for dog fighting, but even more specifically they were bred to not bite the handlers. As getting a dog to fight is just a matter of time and selection, but getting a dog to fight only dogs and not people is something much more difficult and valuable, at the time.
But, that was many, many years ago. And the breed has been bred and bred and inbred and bred again. An American pitbull terrier average weight is about 35 to 60 lbs. Average. 35 is no bigger than an average corgi. With 60 at the high end being a small golden or average chow.
These XL bully breeds aren’t pitbulls. Hell, even pitbulls now days aren’t pitbulls. They are a mix of staffy, mastiff, American bull dogs, English bulldogs, and random other terriers. And then sold as designer breeds like the American bully with no regard for behavior, temperament, or loyalty.
In the past I’d say it’s a bit of both, though moreso the type of shitheads attracted to ‘scary’ breeds is also as likely to be shit at training/ socialising them. There’s some good evidence though that this particular ‘XL’ breed has higher rates of inbreeding and has already been selected for agression (not to mention their increased size & power).
Think it’s a fair point some are making though that just banning the latest dangerous breed is missing the wood for the trees. There should be serious penalties from any dog attack, for the owner; treat it the same as possession of a dangerous weapon like a gun or zombie knife.
You need to go one step further - why do people feel the need to own such dogs in the first place? Some people would say the dog is for protection (from who? And why are those people a threat? It’s well known that lack of social and communal services lead to young people ending up involved with gangs and violence), others use it as a status symbol (don’t even get me started on consumerism, and commodification of natural shit like animals), and in almost all cases there is a lot of toxic masculinity involved.
These are all deep rooted systemic issues that go far beyond both dogs and owners (don’t get me wrong - I am not excusing bad dog ownership, and don’t think people should be raising violent and aggressive dogs), and they all need addressing to actually resolve the problem, but it’s much easier for those in charge to focus on the end result, and make it an individual issue, they don’t care about making society better, they just want power and money.
Not arguing here, all your points are correct, just sharing why I have a big scary dog. He’s half GSD, quarter american pit (not xl) and quarter American staffordshire. I got him for two reasons, 1) I have a first floor patio in a bad neighborhood and he’s got a great guard insinct, and 2) he’s a big baby and makes a great emotional support animal (ptsd anxiety and ASD). I don’t need protection, I just need a buddy to scare off the crackheads who have tried to walk into my appartment just because I wanted some fresh air and left the door open. He loves everyone, but oh boy if I don’t let you in myself you’re in for one hell of time. I’ve raised dogs all my life, knew what I wanted, and what I was getting into. That is unfortunately not the case 90% of the time and it pisses me off when I see it. Honestly I would love to require people get a liscense to own a dog (let alone have children)
Honestly I would love to require people get a liscense to own a dog
That’s the case in Germany, depending on state and breed. With what I heard about US dogs and their utter lack of training (e.g. not being able to lie under a table under a restaurant and chill) you should probably make it universal, though.
(let alone have children)
…that’s not going to happen. How about teaching pedagogy and developmental psychology in school, say ages 14 to 16, start of the “seeing kids as kids” age. Speaking of, domestic animal psychology is actually a great topic for biology, doesn’t need to go into depth but some fundamental stuff about cats and dogs so that people are less likely to misinterpret what they see should easily fit the curriculum.
There’s a story that a family dog got loose after a car crash. They found the dog a few days later … herding sheep. No one ever taught the dog to herd sheep.
Literally all I’m saying is that the vast majority of pit bulls aren’t violent. I fucking said I’m in favor of spaying and neutering the breed out of existence because the few that do become violent are excessively dangerous.
Horses are fragile as fuck. Let’s talk about dogs that were bred to kill bears. Oh but wait they didn’t get a street rep and a million shitty owners abusing them. Alaskan Malamutes were bred to help with Polar Bears, they get to about 100 pounds, have a very strong bite, and a big independent streak making them harder to train. Oh yeah and they come with a warning about being around children.
What’s the difference in the actual breeds? The Malamute is giant fluffball. The Pitbull has many manly muscles.
The problem is that there’s no way to tell a bad owner from a good one, which is how we end up in situations like this. I’ve almost had my throat torn out as I made my way to the bus stop because a very submissive owner couldn’t control his dommy gshep, which was lunging and straining at the leash in order to kill me.
I love sheps and have met some extremely good owners, but they are few and far between compared to the jackasses who bring their Rottweilers into bars, where the dog goes absolutely ballistic and starts making kill noises at everyone until the owner has to leave the bar. And that happened last month, lol.
most people that know how to train dogs have perfectly well behaved dogs, of course they’re always going to be animals at the end of the day but we shouldn’t be surprised when they act out either
It depends on behavior. They found high correlation between breed and how many time they turned around before laying down. Certain common trip like sit or come. But not aggressive behavior. They highest correlation for that was back ground. Dog from the streets or abusive backgrounds. Followed by a small correlation with genetics, which is not the same as breed.
Breed did have anything to do with aggression. Also most people can’t tell a pitbull from other dogs, and studies that look at dog attacks only rely on the victim just saying what breed attacked them
I do wonder how much is the breed and how much is shitty owners being attracted to perceived scary breeds. My guess would be a bit of both.
You don’t need to train a pointer puppy to point. They do it from birth. You don’t need to train a sheep dog to herd. They do it from the moment they can walk. You don’t need to teach a pit bull to latch and shake. They also do that from birth. Training can mitigate the risk, but they’re still very dangerous dogs.
Literally every breed with a prey drive does the death shake. And they aren’t the only ones with locking jaws either. This is very much a problem of shitty people who like the reputation.
If that logic holds true than pure American pitbull terriers should actually be the safest dogs to own in regards to people. Pitbulls where bred for dog fighting, but even more specifically they were bred to not bite the handlers. As getting a dog to fight is just a matter of time and selection, but getting a dog to fight only dogs and not people is something much more difficult and valuable, at the time.
But, that was many, many years ago. And the breed has been bred and bred and inbred and bred again. An American pitbull terrier average weight is about 35 to 60 lbs. Average. 35 is no bigger than an average corgi. With 60 at the high end being a small golden or average chow.
These XL bully breeds aren’t pitbulls. Hell, even pitbulls now days aren’t pitbulls. They are a mix of staffy, mastiff, American bull dogs, English bulldogs, and random other terriers. And then sold as designer breeds like the American bully with no regard for behavior, temperament, or loyalty.
They were trained for fighting. Hard stop.
Just so happens their normal sport was fighting dogs.
Literally no.
In the past I’d say it’s a bit of both, though moreso the type of shitheads attracted to ‘scary’ breeds is also as likely to be shit at training/ socialising them. There’s some good evidence though that this particular ‘XL’ breed has higher rates of inbreeding and has already been selected for agression (not to mention their increased size & power).
Think it’s a fair point some are making though that just banning the latest dangerous breed is missing the wood for the trees. There should be serious penalties from any dog attack, for the owner; treat it the same as possession of a dangerous weapon like a gun or zombie knife.
It’s bit of both. These morons aren’t lining up to buy daschunds.
You need to go one step further - why do people feel the need to own such dogs in the first place? Some people would say the dog is for protection (from who? And why are those people a threat? It’s well known that lack of social and communal services lead to young people ending up involved with gangs and violence), others use it as a status symbol (don’t even get me started on consumerism, and commodification of natural shit like animals), and in almost all cases there is a lot of toxic masculinity involved.
These are all deep rooted systemic issues that go far beyond both dogs and owners (don’t get me wrong - I am not excusing bad dog ownership, and don’t think people should be raising violent and aggressive dogs), and they all need addressing to actually resolve the problem, but it’s much easier for those in charge to focus on the end result, and make it an individual issue, they don’t care about making society better, they just want power and money.
Not arguing here, all your points are correct, just sharing why I have a big scary dog. He’s half GSD, quarter american pit (not xl) and quarter American staffordshire. I got him for two reasons, 1) I have a first floor patio in a bad neighborhood and he’s got a great guard insinct, and 2) he’s a big baby and makes a great emotional support animal (ptsd anxiety and ASD). I don’t need protection, I just need a buddy to scare off the crackheads who have tried to walk into my appartment just because I wanted some fresh air and left the door open. He loves everyone, but oh boy if I don’t let you in myself you’re in for one hell of time. I’ve raised dogs all my life, knew what I wanted, and what I was getting into. That is unfortunately not the case 90% of the time and it pisses me off when I see it. Honestly I would love to require people get a liscense to own a dog (let alone have children)
That’s the case in Germany, depending on state and breed. With what I heard about US dogs and their utter lack of training (e.g. not being able to lie under a table under a restaurant and chill) you should probably make it universal, though.
…that’s not going to happen. How about teaching pedagogy and developmental psychology in school, say ages 14 to 16, start of the “seeing kids as kids” age. Speaking of, domestic animal psychology is actually a great topic for biology, doesn’t need to go into depth but some fundamental stuff about cats and dogs so that people are less likely to misinterpret what they see should easily fit the curriculum.
Who exactly would be in charge of approving those licenses, Herr Führer?
There’s a story that a family dog got loose after a car crash. They found the dog a few days later … herding sheep. No one ever taught the dog to herd sheep.
Pitbull?
The article I found says border collie and red heeler.
Dog ejected from vehicle in Idaho crash found two days later herding sheep
Literally all I’m saying is that the vast majority of pit bulls aren’t violent. I fucking said I’m in favor of spaying and neutering the breed out of existence because the few that do become violent are excessively dangerous.
Ive seen people attack and kill buffalo. We should kill whichever breed of people do that.
Horses are fragile as fuck. Let’s talk about dogs that were bred to kill bears. Oh but wait they didn’t get a street rep and a million shitty owners abusing them. Alaskan Malamutes were bred to help with Polar Bears, they get to about 100 pounds, have a very strong bite, and a big independent streak making them harder to train. Oh yeah and they come with a warning about being around children.
What’s the difference in the actual breeds? The Malamute is giant fluffball. The Pitbull has many manly muscles.
The problem is that there’s no way to tell a bad owner from a good one, which is how we end up in situations like this. I’ve almost had my throat torn out as I made my way to the bus stop because a very submissive owner couldn’t control his dommy gshep, which was lunging and straining at the leash in order to kill me.
I love sheps and have met some extremely good owners, but they are few and far between compared to the jackasses who bring their Rottweilers into bars, where the dog goes absolutely ballistic and starts making kill noises at everyone until the owner has to leave the bar. And that happened last month, lol.
most people that know how to train dogs have perfectly well behaved dogs, of course they’re always going to be animals at the end of the day but we shouldn’t be surprised when they act out either
In the case of decent owners probably 50/50. Bad owners more like 10/90 (dog/owner).
oh oh I read a study answering that.
It depends on behavior. They found high correlation between breed and how many time they turned around before laying down. Certain common trip like sit or come. But not aggressive behavior. They highest correlation for that was back ground. Dog from the streets or abusive backgrounds. Followed by a small correlation with genetics, which is not the same as breed.
Breed did have anything to do with aggression. Also most people can’t tell a pitbull from other dogs, and studies that look at dog attacks only rely on the victim just saying what breed attacked them