The majority of conservative cis LGB folk think that their version of queerness is ok, but other types are not. Anti trans LGB folk are one version of this
I’m sure. People listen to me because I’m a straight white man, whether I deserve their attention or not, so I leverage that to support people who are oppressed.
I speak out against hate of every kind. I ask questions like this because it’s important to know where it comes from to determine the appropriate response. This I didn’t see or expect, but it makes sense now that it’s been described. I appreciate the explanation.
Often it’s fear. They think if they’re a perfect, respectable minority, they can appeal to the kindness of queerphobes and win rights through sympathy. Sometimes it’s even trauma. Gay guy is used to being called a girl for his gayness, and is triggered to see a trans woman willingly taking that on. Or trans person is used to hearing helicopter copypastas and thinks otherkin are conservative trolls. In both cases, they’re used to being attacked with the idea of more marginalised queers, and think they can switch sides to the oppressor’s corner if they disavow the smaller minority
We’re not free until we’re all free. People won’t have any rights if they only fight for their own.
Soulism is for the liberation of gay, bisexual, asexual, trans, nonbinary, intersex, and every other queer identity. Soulism is for justice, sovereignty, and flourishing of black, indigenous, multiracial, immigrant, and global-south communities. Soulism is for additional options for divergent, disabled, disordered, and ill persons in either a recovery of their own will, or a life of their own choosing. Soulism is for the recognition and acceptance of otherkin, plural systems, and members of new religious movements and cults. Implementation of soulist ideas, including the ideas shared by the broader spectrum of anarchist thinking, will help everyone by giving everyone freedom of life and reality, but those most disadvantaged will most benefit.
I’m not sure where you live, but I’ve definitely encountered them in my extremely conservative state. Even here, they’re a small group though.
Even being a small group, I feel like it’s still a problem because hate groups like the Republican Party can parade them around when convenient (until they are no longer useful – then see comic in post).
Can confirm, trans-exclusionary gay/bi people are fucking everywhere in (rural) Georgia in the US. I think the ones who are out who are “anti-trans” outnumber the normal ones.
Unlike what some commenters have said, it’s absolutely not just “a Twitter thing”. Eg. one of Finland’s new MEPs is exactly this sort of person; a gay man dating an immigrant, but who belongs to an extremist right-wing party. He hates trans people, and like all conservative LGBT+ folks he is so oblivious that he apparently completely misses the fact that were his party to actually have their way, they would literally murder him for not being straight, and at best deport his boyfriend if they didn’t send him to the same extermination camp
One of the most prominent politicians of the far right AfD in Germany, which was too extreme for the right block in the EU, is also a lesbian with an immigrant wife.
Conservatives are more likely to have dark triad / tetrad personality traits – Machiavellianism, narcissism, psychopathy and everyday sadism – and they’re also more likely to be… well, a bit on the dim side.
It’s not too surprising that an ideology centered around dominance and punishing the Other (usually with physical violence) like conservatism is going to attract the worst kind of people, and since it also emphasizes strict hierarchies and resistance to change it’s not at all surprising that it’s also extremely attractive to people who want to minimize any sort of uncertainty and change – because they are literally incapable of dealing with complexity.
In the present research (N = 675), we focus on the relationship between the dark side of human personality and political orientation and extremism, respectively, in the course of a presidential election where the two candidates represent either left-wing or right-wing political policies. Narcissism, Machiavellianism, psychopathy, and everyday sadism were associated with right-wing political orientation, whereas narcissism and psychopathy were associated with political extremism. Moreover, the relationships between personality and right-wing political orientation and extremism, respectively, were relatively independent from each other.
We found eleven significant correlations between conservative [Moral Intuition Survey] judgments and the Dark Triad – [narcissism, Machiavellianism, psychopathy,] all at significance level of p<.00001 – and no significant correlations between liberal [Moral Intuition Survey] judgments and the Dark Triad. We believe that these results raise provocative moral questions about the personality bases of moral judgments. In particular, we propose that because the Short-D3 measures three “dark and antisocial” personality traits, our results raise some prima facie worries about the moral justification of some conservative moral judgments
I ran a follow-up study testing the Dark Triad against conservative and liberal judgments on 15 additional moral issues. The new issues examined include illegal immigration, abortion, the teaching of “intelligent design” in public schools, the use of waterboarding and other “enhanced interrogation techniques” in the war on terrorism, laws defining marriage as the union of one man and one woman, and environmentalism. 1154 participants […] Twenty-two significant correlations were observed between “conservative” judgments and the Dark Triad (all of which were significant past a Bonferonni-corrected significance threshold of p = .0008), compared to seven significant correlations between Dark Triad and “liberal” judgments (only one of which was significant past p = .0008).
Despite their important implications for interpersonal behaviors and relations, cognitive abilities have been largely ignored as explanations of prejudice. We proposed and tested mediation models in which lower cognitive ability predicts greater prejudice, an effect mediated through the endorsement of right-wing ideologies (social conservatism, right-wing authoritarianism) and low levels of contact with out-groups. In an analysis of two large-scale, nationally representative United Kingdom data sets (N = 15,874), we found that lower general intelligence (g) in childhood predicts greater racism in adulthood, and this effect was largely mediated via conservative ideology. A secondary analysis of a U.S. data set confirmed a predictive effect of poor abstract-reasoning skills on antihomosexual prejudice, a relation partially mediated by both authoritarianism and low levels of intergroup contact. All analyses controlled for education and socioeconomic status. Our results suggest that cognitive abilities play a critical, albeit underappreciated, role in prejudice. Consequently, we recommend a heightened focus on cognitive ability in research on prejudice and a better integration of cognitive ability into prejudice models.
We report longitudinal data in which we assessed the relationships between intelligence and support for two constructs that shape ideological frameworks, namely, right-wing authoritarianism (RWA) and social dominance orientation (SDO). Participants (N = 375) were assessed in Grade 7 and again in Grade 12. Verbal and numerical ability were assessed when students entered high school in Grade 7. RWA and SDO were assessed before school graduation in Grade 12. After controlling for the possible confounding effects of personality and religious values in Grade 12, RWA was predicted by low g (β = -.16) and low verbal intelligence (β = -.18). SDO was predicted by low verbal intelligence only (β = -.13). These results are discussed with reference to the role of verbal intelligence in predicting support for such ideological frameworks and some comments are offered regarding the cognitive distinctions between RWA and SDO.
Conservatism and cognitive ability are negatively correlated. The evidence is based on 1254 community college students and 1600 foreign students seeking entry to United States’ universities. At the individual level of analysis, conservatism scores correlate negatively with SAT, Vocabulary, and Analogy test scores. At the national level of analysis, conservatism scores correlate negatively with measures of education (e.g., gross enrollment at primary, secondary, and tertiary levels) and performance on mathematics and reading assessments from the PISA (Programme for International Student Assessment) project. They also correlate with components of the Failed States Index and several other measures of economic and political development of nations. Conservatism scores have higher correlations with economic and political measures than estimated IQ scores.
[T]here exists a solid empirical paper trail demonstrating that lower cognitive abilities (e.g., abstract-reasoning skills and verbal, nonverbal, and general intelligence) predict greater prejudice. We discuss how the effects of lower cognitive ability on prejudice are explained (i.e., mediated) by greater endorsement of right-wing socially conservative attitude. […]
Right-wing ideologies offer well-structured and ordered views about society that preserve traditional societal conventions and norms (e.g., Jost, Glaser, Kruglanski, & Sulloway, 2003). Such ideological belief systems are particularly attractive to individuals who are strongly motivated to avoid uncertainty and ambiguity in preference for simplicity and predictability (Jost et al., 2003; Roets & Van Hiel, 2011). Theoretically, individuals with lower mental abilities should be attracted by right-wing social-cultural ideologies because they minimize complexity and increase perceived control (Heaven, Ciarrochi, & Leeson, 2011; Stankov, 2009). Conversely, individuals with greater cognitive skills are better positioned to understand changing and dynamic societal contexts, which should facilitate open-minded, relatively left-leaning attitudes (Deary et al., 2008a; Heaven et al., 2011; McCourt, Bouchard, Lykken, Tellegen, & Keyes, 1999). Lower cognitive abilities therefore draw people to strategies and ideologies that emphasize what is presently known and considered acceptable to make sense and impose order over their environment. Resistance to social change and the preservation of the status quo regarding societal traditions—key principles underpinning right-wing social-cultural ideologies—should be particularly appealing to those wishing to avoid uncertainty and threat.
Indeed, the empirical literature reveals negative relations between cognitive abilities and right-wing social-cultural attitudes, including right-wing authoritarian (e.g., Keiller, 2010; McCourt et al., 1999), socially conservative (e.g., Stankov, 2009; Van Hiel et al., 2010), and religious attitudes (e.g., Zuckerman, Silberman, & Hall, 2013).
Fascinating. While I’ve never read this study before, I’m not at all surprised. I have a Machiavellian sister who is a full on Trump Republican. I know a couple of narcissistic professional musicians that are life-long Republicans too. The personality type is ideal for the stage. You’d be surprised to know how many performers are narcissists. It’s all the more reason society shouldn’t idolize them (with obvious exceptions for Dolly Parton and Dave Grohl).
The one caveat I’m aware of are superficial, fiscally conservative Republicans. They are typically the minority party in larger cities, so their votes tend to matter less, but their media silence hides their sizable numbers. I grew up with many, and still know a few. They’re Republicans that aren’t politically aware, and are not personally bigoted, but vote Republican to do what’s best for their financial needs. They turn a blind eye to the party’s social stance and simply say that they’re doing what’s best for their family. The hypocrisy is real. I’ve had great conversations, where they’re honestly compelled to speak in favor of equal rights. Then at the polls, they don’t see voting as anything other than a financial decision. Their willful ignorance frustrates me the most.
The “fiscally conservative” people I know haven’t turned out to be any better than the others. One “moderate” and “fiscally conservative” acquaintance I had flat out told me to my face that he thought the world would be a better place if gender minorities didn’t exist, and that he thought we’re all pretending. Even the ones who haven’t spewed outright genocidal bigoted garbage either make it clear that they’d probably be doing it if it was more acceptable, or simply don’t have enough empathy to care about being on the side of genocidal bigots as long as they or anyone in their immediate family aren’t personally affected in any way.
Seems like even in the best case conservatives who are nominally only “fiscal conservatives” and not socially conservative have a severe lack of empathy, and are more than happy to eg. collaborate with actual fascists. Just look at how eager all “moderate” conservatives have been to cooperate with Meloni, who is a literal neofascist from a party that’s a direct descendant of the original Fascist Party.
I keep saying this, but it feels like “moderate conservatives” are mythical creatures at this point
With those opinions, they definitely sound socially conservative as well, regardless of their self definition. While I don’t agree with fiscal conservatism, I can maintain a friendship with a fiscally conservative and socially liberal person. I pushed socially conservative people out of my life years ago. I just can’t surround myself with all that ignorant hate.
But that’s the thing: he didn’t start out as socially conservative. Neither did my other friend who was just a fiscal conservative who just slowly slid over to blaming “woke” for everything and no longer approves of my “lifestyle”, which is about as boring as can be but being an enby is apparently a choice now – at least she hasn’t told me she’s dreaming of genocide, so there’s that.
The one fiscal conservative I know who hasn’t started sliding into full-on fascist bullshit is still more than happy to associate with eg. the “I want all minorities to go away” dude and tell me to “respect differences of opinion” if I make it clear I won’t be OK with bigotry. That just leaves me thinking that he probably agrees more with those people than he wants to let on, but being an actual (municipal) politician he doesn’t want to say it out loud.
I feel you. The polarization of social media and news made a lot of people shift more extreme over the last decade. I knew some perfectly decent people that started to blame immigrants and climate initiatives for their financial struggles. After failing to compel them into being more understanding of the truth, I had no choice but to stop talking with them. Once someone puts more faith in a Facebook meme than tax proposals on government websites, it’s hard to have a productive conversation.
Yeah, I have a gay buddy who is very supportive of most aspects of LGBTQI+ but HATES when people try to make kinks part of what he believes the culture is. “Leather harnesses, Fursuits and getting your dick or tits out in public has nothing to do with being gay.”
Which I kind of get, but more historically speaking is also kind of wack because straight kink communities were some of the earliest supporters of gay rights. Gay peoples opinions like a rainbow are also a broad spectrum.
I think the important thing is to just realize that you can be accepting of something even if you don’t personally want to be involved with it. And on the flip side, some people just don’t want to be a part of certain groups, and that’s OK too.
TERFs will also straight-up join with anti-feminists. It’s okay to be anti-choice, anti-gay, “socially conservative,” whatever. Despite yelling about how they’re protecting women, none of that matters so long as they hate the same people.
Yes. Conservatives disdain anything “abnormal”. What is “abnormal” to a sheltered idiot from a rural town? That is everything they will ostracize. In totality. Everything a sheltered idiot would be afraid of.
It’s more common among the older generations to my knowledge, but yes there are absolutely conservative queer people that are actively transphobic. I recently made the mistake of reading the comments under an article about the increase in transphobic legislation and hate crime (hate crime in general, so against all queer people) in britain, and there were lots of gay people going “lmao what rights have we lost, name one right” or “I don’t give a fuck, I haven’t experienced this where I live” :(
As with any civil rights movement, there’s always a sect of “got mine” people who want to pull up the ladder when they get what they want. So it was when bisexuality was becoming more recognized (yes really, look up forums of gay people saying they wouldn’t date someone who was bi), and asexuality, and that’s not even touching the gender identity side of things. Now that they feel relatively comfortable, they want all those upstarts to settle down so we can all live in “peace”.
![[CW: transphobia] How can they not see this is what's coming‽](https://sopuli.xyz/pictrs/image/aac8d0a6-f3d8-47c7-8c62-6b57b518b99b.webp){kind=link}
Ignorant straight cisgendered ally question- Is this really a thing? Is there a wedge between sexuality and gender advocacy?
The majority of conservative cis LGB folk think that their version of queerness is ok, but other types are not. Anti trans LGB folk are one version of this
That’s awful. Just enough acceptance for them, and fuck everyone else. It must take a complete lack of empathy.
You see it even more often if you’re otherkin.
I’m sure. People listen to me because I’m a straight white man, whether I deserve their attention or not, so I leverage that to support people who are oppressed.
I speak out against hate of every kind. I ask questions like this because it’s important to know where it comes from to determine the appropriate response. This I didn’t see or expect, but it makes sense now that it’s been described. I appreciate the explanation.
Often it’s fear. They think if they’re a perfect, respectable minority, they can appeal to the kindness of queerphobes and win rights through sympathy. Sometimes it’s even trauma. Gay guy is used to being called a girl for his gayness, and is triggered to see a trans woman willingly taking that on. Or trans person is used to hearing helicopter copypastas and thinks otherkin are conservative trolls. In both cases, they’re used to being attacked with the idea of more marginalised queers, and think they can switch sides to the oppressor’s corner if they disavow the smaller minority
That’s incredibly enlightening. You’re very insightful. Thank you.
Thank you. If you really want to do a lot for minorities, become a soulist. http://soulism.net
We’re not free until we’re all free. People won’t have any rights if they only fight for their own.
Thanks for this!
That was already stated. “Conservative” cis LGB folk.
I’ve never met one of these people… I feel like they must be a monitority of the minority, right?
I’m not sure where you live, but I’ve definitely encountered them in my extremely conservative state. Even here, they’re a small group though.
Even being a small group, I feel like it’s still a problem because hate groups like the Republican Party can parade them around when convenient (until they are no longer useful – then see comic in post).
Can confirm, trans-exclusionary gay/bi people are fucking everywhere in (rural) Georgia in the US. I think the ones who are out who are “anti-trans” outnumber the normal ones.
Unlike what some commenters have said, it’s absolutely not just “a Twitter thing”. Eg. one of Finland’s new MEPs is exactly this sort of person; a gay man dating an immigrant, but who belongs to an extremist right-wing party. He hates trans people, and like all conservative LGBT+ folks he is so oblivious that he apparently completely misses the fact that were his party to actually have their way, they would literally murder him for not being straight, and at best deport his boyfriend if they didn’t send him to the same extermination camp
One of the most prominent politicians of the far right AfD in Germany, which was too extreme for the right block in the EU, is also a lesbian with an immigrant wife.
Utterly ignorant and just absolutely wasting what little privilege was bought with the lives of queer people up to this moment.
That’s contemptible. I can’t imagine what it must be like to act against your own interests with such conviction. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Conservatives are more likely to have dark triad / tetrad personality traits – Machiavellianism, narcissism, psychopathy and everyday sadism – and they’re also more likely to be… well, a bit on the dim side.
It’s not too surprising that an ideology centered around dominance and punishing the Other (usually with physical violence) like conservatism is going to attract the worst kind of people, and since it also emphasizes strict hierarchies and resistance to change it’s not at all surprising that it’s also extremely attractive to people who want to minimize any sort of uncertainty and change – because they are literally incapable of dealing with complexity.
sources
Fascinating. While I’ve never read this study before, I’m not at all surprised. I have a Machiavellian sister who is a full on Trump Republican. I know a couple of narcissistic professional musicians that are life-long Republicans too. The personality type is ideal for the stage. You’d be surprised to know how many performers are narcissists. It’s all the more reason society shouldn’t idolize them (with obvious exceptions for Dolly Parton and Dave Grohl).
The one caveat I’m aware of are superficial, fiscally conservative Republicans. They are typically the minority party in larger cities, so their votes tend to matter less, but their media silence hides their sizable numbers. I grew up with many, and still know a few. They’re Republicans that aren’t politically aware, and are not personally bigoted, but vote Republican to do what’s best for their financial needs. They turn a blind eye to the party’s social stance and simply say that they’re doing what’s best for their family. The hypocrisy is real. I’ve had great conversations, where they’re honestly compelled to speak in favor of equal rights. Then at the polls, they don’t see voting as anything other than a financial decision. Their willful ignorance frustrates me the most.
The “fiscally conservative” people I know haven’t turned out to be any better than the others. One “moderate” and “fiscally conservative” acquaintance I had flat out told me to my face that he thought the world would be a better place if gender minorities didn’t exist, and that he thought we’re all pretending. Even the ones who haven’t spewed outright genocidal bigoted garbage either make it clear that they’d probably be doing it if it was more acceptable, or simply don’t have enough empathy to care about being on the side of genocidal bigots as long as they or anyone in their immediate family aren’t personally affected in any way.
Seems like even in the best case conservatives who are nominally only “fiscal conservatives” and not socially conservative have a severe lack of empathy, and are more than happy to eg. collaborate with actual fascists. Just look at how eager all “moderate” conservatives have been to cooperate with Meloni, who is a literal neofascist from a party that’s a direct descendant of the original Fascist Party.
I keep saying this, but it feels like “moderate conservatives” are mythical creatures at this point
With those opinions, they definitely sound socially conservative as well, regardless of their self definition. While I don’t agree with fiscal conservatism, I can maintain a friendship with a fiscally conservative and socially liberal person. I pushed socially conservative people out of my life years ago. I just can’t surround myself with all that ignorant hate.
But that’s the thing: he didn’t start out as socially conservative. Neither did my other friend who was just a fiscal conservative who just slowly slid over to blaming “woke” for everything and no longer approves of my “lifestyle”, which is about as boring as can be but being an enby is apparently a choice now – at least she hasn’t told me she’s dreaming of genocide, so there’s that.
The one fiscal conservative I know who hasn’t started sliding into full-on fascist bullshit is still more than happy to associate with eg. the “I want all minorities to go away” dude and tell me to “respect differences of opinion” if I make it clear I won’t be OK with bigotry. That just leaves me thinking that he probably agrees more with those people than he wants to let on, but being an actual (municipal) politician he doesn’t want to say it out loud.
I feel you. The polarization of social media and news made a lot of people shift more extreme over the last decade. I knew some perfectly decent people that started to blame immigrants and climate initiatives for their financial struggles. After failing to compel them into being more understanding of the truth, I had no choice but to stop talking with them. Once someone puts more faith in a Facebook meme than tax proposals on government websites, it’s hard to have a productive conversation.
Yeah, I have a gay buddy who is very supportive of most aspects of LGBTQI+ but HATES when people try to make kinks part of what he believes the culture is. “Leather harnesses, Fursuits and getting your dick or tits out in public has nothing to do with being gay.”
Which I kind of get, but more historically speaking is also kind of wack because straight kink communities were some of the earliest supporters of gay rights. Gay peoples opinions like a rainbow are also a broad spectrum.
I think the important thing is to just realize that you can be accepting of something even if you don’t personally want to be involved with it. And on the flip side, some people just don’t want to be a part of certain groups, and that’s OK too.
its basically a twitter thing but there are people like riley gaines who bleed out into real life and work for ron desantis pushing culture wars
Gotcha. Thanks!
I wouldn’t say there’s a widespread thing, but I’ve definitely known people like the one depicted in the comic.
Similar to how TERFs proclaim to be feminist while simultaneously rejecting trans women.
These people make no sense to me at all.
TERFs will also straight-up join with anti-feminists. It’s okay to be anti-choice, anti-gay, “socially conservative,” whatever. Despite yelling about how they’re protecting women, none of that matters so long as they hate the same people.
Yes. Conservatives disdain anything “abnormal”. What is “abnormal” to a sheltered idiot from a rural town? That is everything they will ostracize. In totality. Everything a sheltered idiot would be afraid of.
That I’m aware of. It’s fucking despicable.
Are there are lesbians, gays, and bisexuals that don’t stand up for transgender rights like in the comic? That’s what I haven’t heard about.
It’s more common among the older generations to my knowledge, but yes there are absolutely conservative queer people that are actively transphobic. I recently made the mistake of reading the comments under an article about the increase in transphobic legislation and hate crime (hate crime in general, so against all queer people) in britain, and there were lots of gay people going “lmao what rights have we lost, name one right” or “I don’t give a fuck, I haven’t experienced this where I live” :(
That’s sad. People won’t have any rights left if they only fight for their own.
As with any civil rights movement, there’s always a sect of “got mine” people who want to pull up the ladder when they get what they want. So it was when bisexuality was becoming more recognized (yes really, look up forums of gay people saying they wouldn’t date someone who was bi), and asexuality, and that’s not even touching the gender identity side of things. Now that they feel relatively comfortable, they want all those upstarts to settle down so we can all live in “peace”.