Moscow will use its stockpile if Ukraine deploys the widely-banned munitions first, Putin said.

President Vladimir Putin said Russia had a “sufficient stockpile” of cluster bombs and reserved the right to use them if such munitions, the use of which he said he regarded as a crime, were deployed against Russian forces in Ukraine.

Ukraine said on Thursday it had received cluster bombs from the United States

  • SpaceBar@lemmy.worldEnglish
    651·
    1 year ago

    Putin: “Russia will use cluster bombs if we have to, we already have, since the beginning, but we will still use them if we have to.”

    • Gramatikal@lemmy.worldEnglish
      10·
      1 year ago

      I was gonna say. I distinctly remember that the only reason cluster munitions were sent was in response to Russian ones targeting civilians.

      • mea_rah@lemmy.worldEnglish
        6·
        1 year ago

        They were using cluster munition from very beginning. There were videos of cluster munition being used in cities with civilians. In the infamous Kramatorsk railway station attack russia used cluster munition for example. Which is what makes putin’s statement quite misleading. It’s effectively lying by omission.

      • vimdiesel@lemmy.worldEnglish
        21·
        1 year ago

        That’s incorrect. It’s because conventional ammunition is running low AND they hope the cluster bombs will help to break the Russian lines/trenches.

      • vimdiesel@lemmy.world
        1·
        1 year ago

        this is like an announcement to the russian people who don’t really know what is going on in Ukraine. That’s why he still has 80% support, most russians are fooled by state tv and think all the info on the internet is western propaganda when actually only 23% of it is.

    • 🌱 🐄🌱 @lemmy.worldOPM
      124·
      1 year ago

      From what I understand Putin is using a stricter definition of “cluster bombs” as a muntition containing a bomblets submunition.

      I have seen of Russian videos munitions are hypersonic missiles, thermobaric bombs (incendiary submunition), and timed remote mine submunitions (a timed self-destruct feature or one that turns it inert after a while) but none utilizing a pressure fuse like the butterfly mines that were used by Ukraine.

      They are terrible weapons regardless of definition

      • variaatio@sopuli.xyzEnglish
        2·
        1 year ago

        Even if it was just pure anti-personnel clusters, we have evidence of that far back in 2022. So even then he would be lying. For example there is photo graphic evidence from the bomb disposal teams in Ukraine of 9N24 submunition. Which is soviet pure anti-personnel submunition for their cluster dispensers. It has no other purpose. It isn’t even dual use dumb HEAT/FRAG submunition. 9N24 is pure fragmentations anti-personnel round with simple contact fuse. Hit’s ground, the explosive core along the main cylinder shaped munition explodes and well the whole outside wall is lined with steel balls to be thrown in 360 all around.

        Similarly 9N210 HE/FRAG munitions have been documented. Again useless against armored targets, only use case is against soft targets like humans. As have 9N235 again HE/FRAG sub munitions been documented.

        All same purpose, just little different sized and exact design for different dispensers. Some those might theoretically have fuses with self destruct. However the whole point about cluster munitions being bad is fuses fail, including supposed self-destruct fuses. There is no such thing as 100% reliable fuse, even self destruct one.

        My source: Armaments Research Services articles on the subject. I’m sure there is bunch of other more official sources also, including listing more individual incidents and attacks. ARES are just convenient source here, since they are interested the weapons technologies and types used in conflicts, so they have bunch of articles of “This specific type of submunitions has now been seen in Ukraine”.

      • chowder@lemmy.one
        1·
        1 year ago

        none utilizing a pressure fuse like the butterfly mines that were used by Ukraine.

        Both sides claim the other is using these, and both sides likely are.

  • 52fighters@kbin.social
    192·
    1 year ago

    Ukraine is using them to clear minefields planted by Russians who illegally entered the country for the purpose of mass murder. I think we can give Ukraine a pass on what type of munitions they think will be useful for saving lives.

  • kromem@lemmy.worldEnglish
    131·
    1 year ago

    He followed it up by saying that if Ukraine doesn’t watch their step, Russia may need to send troops into Ukraine too.

  • tired_n_bored@lemmy.worldEnglish
    122·
    1 year ago

    They already used them and already committed countless war crimes.

    The people claiming Ukraine is committing crime were just distracted when Russia used them on civilians? Anyways the Ukrainian Government already stated that they will not be used in towns and cities but only to clear minefields

    • Gramatikal@lemmy.worldEnglish
      6·
      1 year ago

      Distracted? I dunno. Russian propagandists/bots seems more likely.

      Even at the bar I tend, filled with “conservatives” that think Donald was cheated out of the election, there isn’t anyone who believes Russia is in the right.

  • freehugs@lemmy.worldEnglish
    71·
    1 year ago

    From what I read the main purpose of cluster munitions is for offensive maneuvers, so my hope is Russia will be too busy (and unsuccessful) holding their frontlines to make effective use of them.

  • Ilikepornaddict@lemmynsfw.comEnglish
    16·
    1 year ago

    We really need to lift all restrictions for Ukraine on the use of weapons they’re being given. Let them rain horror on the Russian people, and see how fast the country turns against putin and his regime. Otherwise this war will drag on forever.