The popular view of Israel is as a modern state created with the backing of powerful western allies. This may be true of the current iteration of the state of Israel but the history is much older.
Jews have been living in Israel for thousands of years dating back to the Iron Age Kingdom of Israel, though for much of the intervening time the area was called Palestine (or other names). Owing to its long history of conquests and migration, many Jews left Palestine and migrated throughout Europe, forming diaspora communities (and frequently subject to antisemitism and violent pogroms).
Back in the 1500s the Ottoman Empire conquered Palestine and considered it part of Ottoman Syria. This lasted for centuries until the fall of the Ottoman Empire.
What Zionists want is the same thing that Palestinians want and the same thing that Chinese people already have (and Japanese and Korean and many other groups have): a homeland. Zionism as an idea goes back centuries, to the original departure of Jews and forming diaspora communities. The conflicts between Jews and other groups in Palestine (including Christians who migrated there in the Middle Ages) goes back centuries.
The main difference now is that Israel has an enormous amount of power due to their alliance with the UK and the US. The US in particular has a sizeable Jewish diaspora community that grew dramatically during the Holocaust. The cities of New York and Los Angeles are home to sizeable and highly influential Jewish communities, and many Hollywood executives, producers, actors, and comedians are Jewish. Jewish culture therefore forms a very substantial part of American culture (through TV shows like Seinfeld and Curb Your Enthusiasm and many movies) and many American non-Jews are politically friendly to the Zionist cause.
I, personally, don’t have a stake in the outcome. I want the violence to stop but I have no idea how that’s going to happen. The most recent conflict really has been going on for over a century. At one time even Nazi Germany had a side in it, supporting Arabic Palestinians. There have been many pogroms and genocides over the centuries, targeting both Jews and other groups. The Ottoman Empire committed genocides as well. It’s horrific but it’s so difficult to imagine a scenario where it will stop.
Jews have been living in Israel for thousands of years dating back…
Completely and utterly irrelevant. Claims made on the basis of things that happened thousands of years ago should be given absolutely 0 weight on current decisions.
What Zionists want is the same thing that Palestinians want and the same thing that Chinese people already have (and Japanese and Korean and many other groups have): a homeland.
Absolutely incorrect. The Chinese people and Korean people did not fight for a homeland, they fought against colonial invaders and capitalist forces and won. The Palestinians have a similar goal. Zionists are fighting to be the colonists, believing that some land belongs to them because other people thousands of years ago vaguely connected to them lived there. Their goals are the complete opposite.
The conflicts between Jews and other groups in Palestine (including Christians who migrated there in the Middle Ages) goes back centuries.
No it doesn’t. It dates back to Zionist incursions and crimes in Palestine. This is not a religious conflict in way, and religious groups aren’t the primary actors in history to begin with, that would be classes, in this case, the settlers and non-settlers. Zionists have only claimed religion as a convenient cover.
I want the violence to stop but I have no idea how that’s going to happen.
The violence will stops when one side wins permanently. Either the Zionists succeed in ethnically cleansing the area (they will likely act aggressively against other countries in the region though) or the Palestinians succeed in having a stable secular multi-ethnic state established.
At one time even Nazi Germany had a side in it, supporting Arabic Palestinians.
If you want to do good hasbara, try to not associate Nazi Germany with the Palestinians. That is how you make your malicious intentions impossible to hide.
it’s so difficult to imagine a scenario where it will stop.
Skill issue, or I guess in this case, ideological issue.
Indeed, I don’t know how to stop it either. If saving the Palestinians leads to another massacre of Jews, then as a proverb says, “An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind.” “冤冤相报何时了。”It will only result in more bloodshed and cries of anguish. The Chinese government has consistently supported the 1967 two-state solution; I have seen this mentioned many times in official news. Perhaps what we need is an “Israeli-Palestinian Mandela.” 😢
A 2 state solution was never realistic. Throwing out unworkable peace solutions or quibbling over details instead of outright saying they’re not ready for peace so that they can continue violence is a US (and israeli) tactic you’ll see over and over.
The US and Israel both knew Palestine was never gonna give up its best land to hostile invaders, as the borders would make their economy entirely dependent on Israel, and Israel media made it very clear that such a state would only be temporary.
So it’s really a “messy situation.” Israel was artificially established after World War II, which is like a gang giving away your living room to someone else. You would definitely feel that this person is infringing on your home, but you can’t fight them. Now they are occupying your bedroom, and soon your own bed will belong to them. The two-state solution only limits others from taking over your bedroom, but they still occupy your living room, and you have to pass through the living room to leave the house. For the resident, it’s originally their own house; for the person living in the living room, they fought and bled for it, and now they are being asked to give back the hallway and bathroom. Doesn’t that mean they bled in vain?
So it’s really a messy situation. Sometimes, it can only be suppressed by a powerful intermediary who has no core interest in this house. This is not a complete solution but a temporary truce. If enough time passes, we might see a full reconciliation, just like in ancient China where various ethnic groups had wars and blood feuds, but from the perspective of modern China, they are just words recorded in books.
I wish people would explain their downvotes for this post. It has more information and nuance than 99% of the posts on lemmy. I guess because it doesn’t fit whatever rage they are currently entertaining.
The popular view of Israel is as a modern state created with the backing of powerful western allies. This may be true of the current iteration of the state of Israel but the history is much older.
Jews have been living in Israel for thousands of years dating back to the Iron Age Kingdom of Israel, though for much of the intervening time the area was called Palestine (or other names). Owing to its long history of conquests and migration, many Jews left Palestine and migrated throughout Europe, forming diaspora communities (and frequently subject to antisemitism and violent pogroms).
Back in the 1500s the Ottoman Empire conquered Palestine and considered it part of Ottoman Syria. This lasted for centuries until the fall of the Ottoman Empire.
What Zionists want is the same thing that Palestinians want and the same thing that Chinese people already have (and Japanese and Korean and many other groups have): a homeland. Zionism as an idea goes back centuries, to the original departure of Jews and forming diaspora communities. The conflicts between Jews and other groups in Palestine (including Christians who migrated there in the Middle Ages) goes back centuries.
The main difference now is that Israel has an enormous amount of power due to their alliance with the UK and the US. The US in particular has a sizeable Jewish diaspora community that grew dramatically during the Holocaust. The cities of New York and Los Angeles are home to sizeable and highly influential Jewish communities, and many Hollywood executives, producers, actors, and comedians are Jewish. Jewish culture therefore forms a very substantial part of American culture (through TV shows like Seinfeld and Curb Your Enthusiasm and many movies) and many American non-Jews are politically friendly to the Zionist cause.
I, personally, don’t have a stake in the outcome. I want the violence to stop but I have no idea how that’s going to happen. The most recent conflict really has been going on for over a century. At one time even Nazi Germany had a side in it, supporting Arabic Palestinians. There have been many pogroms and genocides over the centuries, targeting both Jews and other groups. The Ottoman Empire committed genocides as well. It’s horrific but it’s so difficult to imagine a scenario where it will stop.
Completely and utterly irrelevant. Claims made on the basis of things that happened thousands of years ago should be given absolutely 0 weight on current decisions.
Absolutely incorrect. The Chinese people and Korean people did not fight for a homeland, they fought against colonial invaders and capitalist forces and won. The Palestinians have a similar goal. Zionists are fighting to be the colonists, believing that some land belongs to them because other people thousands of years ago vaguely connected to them lived there. Their goals are the complete opposite.
No it doesn’t. It dates back to Zionist incursions and crimes in Palestine. This is not a religious conflict in way, and religious groups aren’t the primary actors in history to begin with, that would be classes, in this case, the settlers and non-settlers. Zionists have only claimed religion as a convenient cover.
The violence will stops when one side wins permanently. Either the Zionists succeed in ethnically cleansing the area (they will likely act aggressively against other countries in the region though) or the Palestinians succeed in having a stable secular multi-ethnic state established.
If you want to do good hasbara, try to not associate Nazi Germany with the Palestinians. That is how you make your malicious intentions impossible to hide.
Skill issue, or I guess in this case, ideological issue.
Indeed, I don’t know how to stop it either. If saving the Palestinians leads to another massacre of Jews, then as a proverb says, “An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind.” “冤冤相报何时了。”It will only result in more bloodshed and cries of anguish. The Chinese government has consistently supported the 1967 two-state solution; I have seen this mentioned many times in official news. Perhaps what we need is an “Israeli-Palestinian Mandela.” 😢
A 2 state solution was never realistic. Throwing out unworkable peace solutions or quibbling over details instead of outright saying they’re not ready for peace so that they can continue violence is a US (and israeli) tactic you’ll see over and over.
The US and Israel both knew Palestine was never gonna give up its best land to hostile invaders, as the borders would make their economy entirely dependent on Israel, and Israel media made it very clear that such a state would only be temporary.
So it’s really a “messy situation.” Israel was artificially established after World War II, which is like a gang giving away your living room to someone else. You would definitely feel that this person is infringing on your home, but you can’t fight them. Now they are occupying your bedroom, and soon your own bed will belong to them. The two-state solution only limits others from taking over your bedroom, but they still occupy your living room, and you have to pass through the living room to leave the house. For the resident, it’s originally their own house; for the person living in the living room, they fought and bled for it, and now they are being asked to give back the hallway and bathroom. Doesn’t that mean they bled in vain?
So it’s really a messy situation. Sometimes, it can only be suppressed by a powerful intermediary who has no core interest in this house. This is not a complete solution but a temporary truce. If enough time passes, we might see a full reconciliation, just like in ancient China where various ethnic groups had wars and blood feuds, but from the perspective of modern China, they are just words recorded in books.
I wish people would explain their downvotes for this post. It has more information and nuance than 99% of the posts on lemmy. I guess because it doesn’t fit whatever rage they are currently entertaining.
Nuance isn’t required here. Zionists want a theocratic apartheid state, Palestinians want a multi-ethnic, multi-religious state.
It’s not Hamas bombing churches in Gaza. It wasn’t Hamas who bombed Bethlehem and burned down the Christmas tree on Christmas Eve.
Oh goodness.