My family is Jewish and I’ve always been an atheist. My wife is also an atheist, but grew up in a Christian family. I’ve always felt uncomfortable going over to her house for religious holidays. Most of the Jesus talk is done at the pre-meal prayer, but that part makes me feel super uncomfortable.
But like Easter and Christmas, despite the fact that they’ve always been completely welcoming and non-judgmental to me, I just feel like a total outsider. Even after almost 24 years of marriage I don’t feel used to it. I don’t even feel comfortable with a Christmas tree in the house, but I don’t fight it.
I don’t know if I would say Christmas trees are necessarily Christian. Myself and all of my friends have Christmas trees up, and half of us grew up in non-religious households.
“Christ” is literally in the name. They can be secular, but it is taking something that was a religious symbol for a very long time and making it secular.
My name is from the Bible. Most people don’t realize that. Plenty of atheists have that name including at least one very prominent one. That doesn’t make me dislike that fact any less and it absolutely informed our decision not to give our daughter a religious name.
Also, while it does happen, very few people who do not come from families that were at least Christian in the relatively recent past generally don’t have Christmas trees. At least not in the U.S.
I’ve known Jews and Muslims who do it, but they are rare and often, like me, married to someone with a Christian background. At least here in the U.S.
I’m not criticizing people who celebrate it, but I can’t control what makes me uncomfortable. Coming to something common as a complete outsider for the first 20 years of your life can make things very uncomfortable. Imagine if everyone around you celebrated Ramadan. You might eat during the day, but you’ll probably do so being totally aware that you’re an “other” if you do it. But if you fast like everyone else after not doing it your entire childhood, you might find it very uncomfortable. (Psychologically, I mean. The physical discomfort of fasting is a separate matter.)
We didn’t do Christmas. No Christmas trees, no wreaths, no Santa, no carols, nothing. And, of course, that meant that other kids bullied me because of it. Which only made me feel even more like an outsider. I’m not going to say why, it involves severe bullying, violence and antisemitism, but the one Christmas thing I cannot tolerate in my house is the song Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer. It literally hurts to listen to. When kids bully you and include a Christmas carol in the bullying, that alone can make Christmas uncomfortable.
Like I said, no criticism for people who celebrate it. I even celebrate it now because of my wife and daughter. But I don’t enjoy it. It’s a sense of duty. If I were single, I would ignore both Christmas and Easter.
They are though. Our culture is Christian. It’s an aspect of cultural Christianity
There’s a term: Christian atheist. It refers to people who are atheists but still partake in a lot of the Christian cultural practices and values. There’s nothing wrong with that, but be aware that that will cause differences with Jewish atheists, Muslim atheists, and atheists who are dechristianizing themselves.
When you say that atheists can still celebrate Christmas be aware you sound like someone saying atheists can and should celebrate Ramadan. Neither of you is wrong, but you are bringing a religion and culture into it.
I was raised mostly secular and I’m now 100% atheist, however … I like Christmas trees. Call it a Solstice tree if you want or name it something different. I don’t. I just don’t care. But I like the gift giving and decorating the tree with my wife and kids. It has zero religious significance if you don’t want it to, but the holiday itself is fun.
This post is a tongue and cheek comparison of how capitalism has eaten Christian holidays, and how resurrection is handled in fiction.
I was raised in an authoritarian Christian environment, but on the plus side I am actually able to dissect a lot of popular fiction for my wife who was not raised with this burden. It turns out it’s actually sort of hard to understand certain metaphors, symbols and short hand if both your parents are sarcastic atheists.
That’s interesting that you feel so out of place. I dated a Jewish woman for a little while and went to synagogue with her for Shabbat, and spent a couple holidays with her family. It all felt comfortable to me. I suppose maybe it’s more natural for a Christian to participate in Jewish holidays than it is for a Jew to participate in Christian holidays. Judaism is basically half of Christianity, whereas Christianity is something completely separate to the Jewish. Rather, Christianity is something the Jewish have directly stated they don’t believe the basis for. Does that sound accurate to you?
My family is Jewish and I’ve always been an atheist. My wife is also an atheist, but grew up in a Christian family. I’ve always felt uncomfortable going over to her house for religious holidays. Most of the Jesus talk is done at the pre-meal prayer, but that part makes me feel super uncomfortable.
But like Easter and Christmas, despite the fact that they’ve always been completely welcoming and non-judgmental to me, I just feel like a total outsider. Even after almost 24 years of marriage I don’t feel used to it. I don’t even feel comfortable with a Christmas tree in the house, but I don’t fight it.
Christmas trees predate Christmas.
Okay? That doesn’t make it less uncomfortable for me since I didn’t have them for the first two decades of my life and they’re a Christian thing now.
Lots of things that Christians have adopted predate their religion. Like the entire Old Testament.
I don’t know if I would say Christmas trees are necessarily Christian. Myself and all of my friends have Christmas trees up, and half of us grew up in non-religious households.
“Christ” is literally in the name. They can be secular, but it is taking something that was a religious symbol for a very long time and making it secular.
My name is from the Bible. Most people don’t realize that. Plenty of atheists have that name including at least one very prominent one. That doesn’t make me dislike that fact any less and it absolutely informed our decision not to give our daughter a religious name.
Also, while it does happen, very few people who do not come from families that were at least Christian in the relatively recent past generally don’t have Christmas trees. At least not in the U.S.
I’ve known Jews and Muslims who do it, but they are rare and often, like me, married to someone with a Christian background. At least here in the U.S.
I’m not criticizing people who celebrate it, but I can’t control what makes me uncomfortable. Coming to something common as a complete outsider for the first 20 years of your life can make things very uncomfortable. Imagine if everyone around you celebrated Ramadan. You might eat during the day, but you’ll probably do so being totally aware that you’re an “other” if you do it. But if you fast like everyone else after not doing it your entire childhood, you might find it very uncomfortable. (Psychologically, I mean. The physical discomfort of fasting is a separate matter.)
We didn’t do Christmas. No Christmas trees, no wreaths, no Santa, no carols, nothing. And, of course, that meant that other kids bullied me because of it. Which only made me feel even more like an outsider. I’m not going to say why, it involves severe bullying, violence and antisemitism, but the one Christmas thing I cannot tolerate in my house is the song Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer. It literally hurts to listen to. When kids bully you and include a Christmas carol in the bullying, that alone can make Christmas uncomfortable.
Like I said, no criticism for people who celebrate it. I even celebrate it now because of my wife and daughter. But I don’t enjoy it. It’s a sense of duty. If I were single, I would ignore both Christmas and Easter.
They are though. Our culture is Christian. It’s an aspect of cultural Christianity
There’s a term: Christian atheist. It refers to people who are atheists but still partake in a lot of the Christian cultural practices and values. There’s nothing wrong with that, but be aware that that will cause differences with Jewish atheists, Muslim atheists, and atheists who are dechristianizing themselves.
When you say that atheists can still celebrate Christmas be aware you sound like someone saying atheists can and should celebrate Ramadan. Neither of you is wrong, but you are bringing a religion and culture into it.
I was raised mostly secular and I’m now 100% atheist, however … I like Christmas trees. Call it a Solstice tree if you want or name it something different. I don’t. I just don’t care. But I like the gift giving and decorating the tree with my wife and kids. It has zero religious significance if you don’t want it to, but the holiday itself is fun.
By a few million years at least
This post is a tongue and cheek comparison of how capitalism has eaten Christian holidays, and how resurrection is handled in fiction.
I was raised in an authoritarian Christian environment, but on the plus side I am actually able to dissect a lot of popular fiction for my wife who was not raised with this burden. It turns out it’s actually sort of hard to understand certain metaphors, symbols and short hand if both your parents are sarcastic atheists.
I realize that. This is pretty much off-topic, so I’ll stop discussing it.
That’s interesting that you feel so out of place. I dated a Jewish woman for a little while and went to synagogue with her for Shabbat, and spent a couple holidays with her family. It all felt comfortable to me. I suppose maybe it’s more natural for a Christian to participate in Jewish holidays than it is for a Jew to participate in Christian holidays. Judaism is basically half of Christianity, whereas Christianity is something completely separate to the Jewish. Rather, Christianity is something the Jewish have directly stated they don’t believe the basis for. Does that sound accurate to you?
That may be accurate, but I told OP that I wouldn’t talk about this further since it’s off-topic, so I’ll leave that there.